67 Palestinian and 7 Israeli Civilians Killed in Conflict

[Herzpunkt]

Yes when they said they are striking terror they clearly meant a zionist wreckoning on the infidels was taking place

I read it that way and didn't see the other way of reading it until it was pointed out. And I speak English as a first language. I wonder how many Palestinians will make the same mistake.

And you failed to address the meat of my post.

Considering Hamas operates freely in Palestine they clearly have some level of support from thr population, so actually to an extent yes, you think 80 people didnt know hamas set up shop in that building?

This is almost as dumb as pakistan intelligence “not knowing” bin laden was down the block

[Kowani]

Netanyahu says in regards to Israeli airstrikes, that "both the might of the attacks and the frequency of the attacks will be increased’

[Senkaku]

Are you incapable of addressing any criticism of Israel without screaming BUT HAMAS?

You clearly havnt read my posts

I mean-

I don’t think it’s their fault they exist near the guys Israel is after.
Additionally, Israel deliberately targets civilians all the time.

So does hamas now everyone is holding a shit sandwitch

There doesn’t seem to be any criticism of Israeli activities that you won’t counter with “but Hamas,” tbh

[Fartsniffage]

Netanyahu says in regards to Israeli airstrikes, that "both the might of the attacks and the frequency of the attacks will be increased’

Marvellous.

[Insaanistan]

So deport all the Christians too?

Sure why not their all invasive religions anyways who killed and crusaded their way across the world

Christians do not exist in Palestine because of the Crusades.

[Cultural Posadism]

Civilians aren’t terrorists...

Nobody said the civilians were holy shit

They didnt say they were targeting civilians they were warning them about collateral damage and in these urban enviroments its a natural risk

Yeah, bombing and shelling cities does carry the "natural" risk of killing civilians at an alarming rate, because you're firing big ass explosive ammunition into densely populated land. Which begs the question of why such a sophisticated and obscenely well-funded military like the Israeli one insists on making that its go-to tactic. You'd think a military with the technology to build the Iron Dome and a humanitarian concern for the well-being of innocent civilians would think twice about using weaponry designed for conventional warfare against civilian targets in the first place.

Hezbollah doesn't have anywhere near the resources that the IDF has at its disposal, yet it's notoriously effective at hitting its targets without being grossly indifferent towards civilian casualties. And Hezbollah, lest we forget, is a clandestine terrorist organization.

[Cultural Posadism]

Netanyahu says in regards to Israeli airstrikes, that "both the might of the attacks and the frequency of the attacks will be increased’

Totally not a genocidal death cult at the helm, folks.

[Herzpunkt]

Sure why not their all invasive religions anyways who killed and crusaded their way across the world

Christians do not exist in Palestine because of the Crusades.

I wasnt being totally serious....

[Fahran]

As WRA pointed out earlier, there’s not a lot of ways to verify whether the IDF is telling the truth that a given civilian building is actually a secret weapons storehouse or not. The reality is they’re lobbing heavy weapons into a populated urban environment with minimal or no warning for people in the targeted areas;

A warning was given well in advance for the targeted strike in question. Given Al Jazeera reported on it, I imagine they've gotten confirmation that nobody was injured from Hamas as well as other sources.

in practice it’s as much a terror bombing campaign against the people of Gaza as it is an effort to defend Israel (Iron Dome usually does a perfectly good job with rocket attacks and there’s almost no other way Hamas can actually strike Israel).

Two Israelis were allegedly killed in the recent violence and the rocket attacks have managed to get past the Iron Dome. That's likely what prompted the extreme level of retaliation we're seeing at present. Israel also had a senior militant leader assassinated in response to rocket attacks near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

[Fahran]

Netanyahu says in regards to Israeli airstrikes, that "both the might of the attacks and the frequency of the attacks will be increased’

I imagine this'll play well with his base.

[Herzpunkt]

As WRA pointed out earlier, there’s not a lot of ways to verify whether the IDF is telling the truth that a given civilian building is actually a secret weapons storehouse or not. The reality is they’re lobbing heavy weapons into a populated urban environment with minimal or no warning for people in the targeted areas;

A warning was given well in advance for the targeted strike in question. Given Al Jazeera reported on it, I imagine they've gotten confirmation that nobody was injured from Hamas as well as other sources.

in practice it’s as much a terror bombing campaign against the people of Gaza as it is an effort to defend Israel (Iron Dome usually does a perfectly good job with rocket attacks and there’s almost no other way Hamas can actually strike Israel).

Two Israelis were allegedly killed in the recent violence and the rocket attacks have managed to get past the Iron Dome. That's likely what prompted the extreme level of retaliation we're seeing at present. Israel also had a senior militant leader assassinated in response to rocket attacks near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

I swear your the voice of reason in these threads

[Vassenor]

As WRA pointed out earlier, there’s not a lot of ways to verify whether the IDF is telling the truth that a given civilian building is actually a secret weapons storehouse or not. The reality is they’re lobbing heavy weapons into a populated urban environment with minimal or no warning for people in the targeted areas;

A warning was given well in advance for the targeted strike in question. Given Al Jazeera reported on it, I imagine they've gotten confirmation that nobody was injured from Hamas as well as other sources.

in practice it’s as much a terror bombing campaign against the people of Gaza as it is an effort to defend Israel (Iron Dome usually does a perfectly good job with rocket attacks and there’s almost no other way Hamas can actually strike Israel).

Two Israelis were allegedly killed in the recent violence and the rocket attacks have managed to get past the Iron Dome. That's likely what prompted the extreme level of retaliation we're seeing at present. Israel also had a senior militant leader assassinated in response to rocket attacks near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

Because "only" rendering 80 families homeless rather than killing them is somehow better.

[Kowani]

No, we know where their rockets ended up, and they ended up wounding 6 Israeli civilians, not hitting Palestinians. I'd like a source for whoever is saying this.

It is widely know rockets fired by any nation do not always hit their targets. Obviously seeing as though most of the rockets are hitting open ground. In numerous cases in the past, of rockets fired some fall within the strip. It is highly likely, that in the course of the past few days Hamas rockets have fallen in the strip due to the sheer amount of rockets being fired. According to the Israeli Channel 12, 3 children were killed by an errant rocket. However more reliable sources say it could be either.

"At least 15 of the 22 deaths in Gaza were attributed to the airstrikes. Seven of the deaths were members of a single family, including three children, who died in a mysterious explosion in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun. It was not clear if the blast was caused by an Israeli airstrike or errant rocket."

Most news sources are saying something similar but this is from the AP

Note: we now have confirmation that the family killed in Beit Hanoun was dead by an Israeli airstrike

[Senkaku]

Demoralizing the civilian population by doing everything short of marching them into death camps.

This is a nonsensical hyperbole. The civilian population of Gaza is arguably still doing better than the civilian population of Syria or Yemen in terms of material well-being.

It's still nicer than what Assad did to Aleppo or the Houthis did to Sana'a.

Is that really the bar you want to set? “It’s not as bad as Aleppo,” one of the bloodiest, most brutal sieges on this side of WW2? “It’s not as bad as Yemen,” where millions of people have been starved because Riyadh thinks famine could be militarily expedient? That’s not an argument for what the Israelis are doing or a defense, that’s just saying “well, it could be worse”... which will literally always be true, unless they set up like, an industrial child-flaying facility or something.

I'm sure it helps the IDF sleep at night to know that they committed a war crime for a good cause, but it doesn't change the fact that they're using weaponry designed for a very different kind of war against civilians.

They bombed infrastructure with direct ties to Hamas and that had been one of many staging point in rocket attacks that killed two Israelis. No Palestinian civilians were killed in the process because they were warned in advance to evacuate.

Now I’m just confused what we’re talking about, were the 30ish dead killed in “clashes” in Jerusalem or something? I thought I read it was the result of an Israeli airstrike?

[Herzpunkt]

A warning was given well in advance for the targeted strike in question. Given Al Jazeera reported on it, I imagine they've gotten confirmation that nobody was injured from Hamas as well as other sources.


Two Israelis were allegedly killed in the recent violence and the rocket attacks have managed to get past the Iron Dome. That's likely what prompted the extreme level of retaliation we're seeing at present. Israel also had a senior militant leader assassinated in response to rocket attacks near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

Because "only" rendering 80 families homeless rather than killing them is somehow better.

Actually....yes...being homeless is like way fucking better

[Kowani]

This is a nonsensical hyperbole. The civilian population of Gaza is arguably still doing better than the civilian population of Syria or Yemen in terms of material well-being.

It's still nicer than what Assad did to Aleppo or the Houthis did to Sana'a.

Is that really the bar you want to set? “It’s not as bad as Aleppo,” one of the bloodiest, most brutal sieges on this side of WW2? “It’s not as bad as Yemen,” where millions of people have been starved because Riyadh thinks famine could be militarily expedient? That’s not an argument for what the Israelis are doing or a defense, that’s just saying “well, it could be worse”... which will literally always be true, unless they set up like, an industrial child-flaying facility or something.

They bombed infrastructure with direct ties to Hamas and that had been one of many staging point in rocket attacks that killed two Israelis. No Palestinian civilians were killed in the process because they were warned in advance to evacuate.

Now I’m just confused what we’re talking about, were the 30ish dead killed in “clashes” in Jerusalem or something? I thought I read it was the result of an Israeli airstrike?

32 dead, 10 children

as far as I am aware, it's been the airstrikes

[Senkaku]

As WRA pointed out earlier, there’s not a lot of ways to verify whether the IDF is telling the truth that a given civilian building is actually a secret weapons storehouse or not. The reality is they’re lobbing heavy weapons into a populated urban environment with minimal or no warning for people in the targeted areas;

A warning was given well in advance for the targeted strike in question. Given Al Jazeera reported on it, I imagine they've gotten confirmation that nobody was injured from Hamas as well as other sources.

Is this the warning they posted on Twitter, or their usual method of just dropping a smaller bomb on the roof a few minutes beforehand?

in practice it’s as much a terror bombing campaign against the people of Gaza as it is an effort to defend Israel (Iron Dome usually does a perfectly good job with rocket attacks and there’s almost no other way Hamas can actually strike Israel).

Two Israelis were allegedly killed in the recent violence and the rocket attacks have managed to get past the Iron Dome. That's likely what prompted the extreme level of retaliation we're seeing at present. Israel also had a senior militant leader assassinated in response to rocket attacks near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

Let’s think about the proportionate response to two or three people getting killed and some overgrown model rockets keeping your missile defense system busy: is it to launch an intense aerial bombardment of a densely populated urban area?

[Herzpunkt]

A warning was given well in advance for the targeted strike in question. Given Al Jazeera reported on it, I imagine they've gotten confirmation that nobody was injured from Hamas as well as other sources.

Is this the warning they posted on Twitter, or their usual method of just dropping a smaller bomb on the roof a few minutes beforehand?

Two Israelis were allegedly killed in the recent violence and the rocket attacks have managed to get past the Iron Dome. That's likely what prompted the extreme level of retaliation we're seeing at present. Israel also had a senior militant leader assassinated in response to rocket attacks near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

Let’s think about the proportionate response to two or three people getting killed and some overgrown model rockets keeping your missile defense system busy: is it to launch an intense aerial bombardment of a densely populated urban area?

In an area where the only thing that is understood is raw force im not surprised they are so heavy handed.

Also if your an incompetant murderer im still going to blast you for trying to kill me, just cause your bad at it dosnt mean your not getting smashed

[Senkaku]

It is widely know rockets fired by any nation do not always hit their targets. Obviously seeing as though most of the rockets are hitting open ground. In numerous cases in the past, of rockets fired some fall within the strip. It is highly likely, that in the course of the past few days Hamas rockets have fallen in the strip due to the sheer amount of rockets being fired. According to the Israeli Channel 12, 3 children were killed by an errant rocket. However more reliable sources say it could be either.

"At least 15 of the 22 deaths in Gaza were attributed to the airstrikes. Seven of the deaths were members of a single family, including three children, who died in a mysterious explosion in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun. It was not clear if the blast was caused by an Israeli airstrike or errant rocket."

Most news sources are saying something similar but this is from the AP

Note: we now have confirmation that the family killed in Beit Hanoun was dead by an Israeli airstrike

This bullshit muddying of the waters with “maybe it wasn’t an Israeli airstrike maybe it was a malfunctioning rocket” is actually an insane new level of digital post-truth rumor-mongering propaganda. Just turn people around so much they don’t know what to believe and disengage instead of accepting what they’re seeing with their own eyes.

Is that really the bar you want to set? “It’s not as bad as Aleppo,” one of the bloodiest, most brutal sieges on this side of WW2? “It’s not as bad as Yemen,” where millions of people have been starved because Riyadh thinks famine could be militarily expedient? That’s not an argument for what the Israelis are doing or a defense, that’s just saying “well, it could be worse”... which will literally always be true, unless they set up like, an industrial child-flaying facility or something.


Now I’m just confused what we’re talking about, were the 30ish dead killed in “clashes” in Jerusalem or something? I thought I read it was the result of an Israeli airstrike?

32 dead, 10 children

as far as I am aware, it's been the airstrikes

Is Fahran perhaps talking about some specific other airstrike that didn’t kill any children? Or some strike from years ago? Who knows!

[Senkaku]

Is this the warning they posted on Twitter, or their usual method of just dropping a smaller bomb on the roof a few minutes beforehand?


Let’s think about the proportionate response to two or three people getting killed and some overgrown model rockets keeping your missile defense system busy: is it to launch an intense aerial bombardment of a densely populated urban area?

In an area where the only thing that is understood is raw force im not surprised they are so heavy handed.

Jesus Christ. This essentializing “they only understand force” stuff is such garbage. They’re not monkeys or dogs or something, they understand human language. Laser-guided bombs are not the only way to communicate with Palestinians (even Hamas).

Also if your an incompetant murderer im still going to blast you for trying to kill me, just cause your bad at it dosnt mean your not getting smashed

Hamas isn’t “incompetent” at killing, they just don’t have the resources to do it. Israel bombing Hamas because its rockets are a national security threat makes about as much sense as it would for the US to fire ballistic missiles at Culiacán over some cartel hit in LA. It’s not that them killing people is desirable or should be permitted or allowed, it’s a question of whether you have adequate means to protect yourself and what kind of retaliation is proportional or appropriate.

The Israelis are, by and large, safe from rocket attack out of Gaza at this point, because they’ve invested in a sophisticated defensive system and shelters, much as the US is safe from the worst narco violence plaguing Latin America because we have very strong local and federal police forces and intelligence services. The response to continued (relatively ineffectual but still tragic) attacks should not be to indiscriminately bombard population centers as if these attacks were massive national crises that demand bloody and swift revenge.

[Insaanistan]

Is this the warning they posted on Twitter, or their usual method of just dropping a smaller bomb on the roof a few minutes beforehand?


Let’s think about the proportionate response to two or three people getting killed and some overgrown model rockets keeping your missile defense system busy: is it to launch an intense aerial bombardment of a densely populated urban area?

In an area where the only thing that is understood is raw force im not surprised they are so heavy handed.

Also if your an incompetant murderer im still going to blast you for trying to kill me, just cause your bad at it dosnt mean your not getting smashed

Hamas isn’t incompetent, they just lack resources. They aren’t some Bond villains.

[Nakena]

Clashes of civilian mobs are reported.

Lod Israel Mayor Issues statement "We have completely lost control of the city, and the streets are witnessing a civil war between Arabs and Jews." This is a few clips from the city right now, as israel sents battalions of troops from the west bank to Lod as chaos is taking place in the streets now.

[Herzpunkt]

Clashes of civilian mobs are reported.

Lod Israel Mayor Issues statement "We have completely lost control of the city, and the streets are witnessing a civil war between Arabs and Jews." This is a few clips from the city right now, as israel sents battalions of troops from the west bank to Lod as chaos is taking place in the streets now.

Abrahamists

[Fahran]

Because "only" rendering 80 families homeless rather than killing them is somehow better.

War almost invariably has markedly unpleasant consequences for non-combatants, but I don't think you can argue that Israel isn't justified in attacking Hamas or that a propaganda office and weapon depot isn't a legitimate military target under international law.

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

In an area where the only thing that is understood is raw force im not surprised they are so heavy handed.

Jesus Christ. This essentializing “they only understand force” stuff is such garbage. They’re not monkeys or dogs or something, they understand human language. Laser-guided bombs are not the only way to communicate with Palestinians (even Hamas).

Also if your an incompetant murderer im still going to blast you for trying to kill me, just cause your bad at it dosnt mean your not getting smashed

Hamas isn’t “incompetent” at killing, they just don’t have the resources to do it. Israel bombing Hamas because its rockets are a national security threat makes about as much sense as it would for the US to fire ballistic missiles at Culiacán over some cartel hit in LA. It’s not that them killing people is desirable or should be permitted or allowed, it’s a question of whether you have adequate means to protect yourself and what kind of retaliation is proportional or appropriate.

Clearly Hamas does have the resources to kill. However most people would agree keeping resources capable of killing away from terrorists is a good thing.

The rockets being fired represent a direct security threat to Israel. As such it is only natural that they see to eliminate the launchers. This has been seen in any conflict around the globe. When Iraq fired Scud missiles, coalition forces sought to shoot them down, and to destroy the launchers. Those are the two options to make the projectiles stop presenting a threat short of peace.

I would be interested to hear what you think Israel should do in response to rockets, however I presume your response would be to do nothing. The only reason Israel civilian casualties aren't very high is because Israeli defenses have intercepted 90% of attacks on densely populated areas.

Israel isn't firing ballistic missiles at the Hamas. They for the most part are using guided bombs and drones, making most of their strikes accurate. I would contend the majority of their strikes hit what they intend to hit, just there are intelligence failures and instances of mistaken identity or misidentification/human error. Your example is poor. It is equating a gunfight with rockets. Israel faced an attack by 3 men just last week. They did not respond with any military force besides eliminating the gunmen. Israel so far has been proportional in its strikes.