67 Palestinian and 7 Israeli Civilians Killed in Conflict

[Jutlop]

as of the fighting in 2021 a quarter of people killed by the idf are children

[Vassenor]

It was a milkshake. A very dangerous milkshake that caused a brain haemorrhage.

He was hit with a milk but he was also with with a bike lock which ended up causing some bleeding in his skull.

So please stop with the cringe Antifa take, its just....so cringe

He said it was a milkshake that had been mixed with concrete. Are you calling him a liar?

[Ifreann]

It was a milkshake. A very dangerous milkshake that caused a brain haemorrhage.

He was hit with a milk but he was also with with a bike lock which ended up causing some bleeding in his skull.

It was a milkshake, he said as much himself. So far as I'm aware he never claimed to have been hit with a bike lock, even the next day when his brain had recovered from being injured by a milkshake. You might be confused because "antifa bike locks" is a popular meme on the right.

So please stop with the cringe Antifa take, its just....so cringe

"Please stop remembering the past, you're making me feel embarrassed"

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Saying "it's a Hamas-operated hospital" about a hospital in Gaza is like saying "it's a VA hospital" in the US. That's just... a government hospital in the context of Gaza. Knowingly bombing hospitals is a war crime, even ones full of combatants-- why do you think military hospital ships have huge, highly visible markings and no camouflage? It's so anyone shooting at their fleet knows not to shoot at the fucking hospital ship. Same goes on land; don't bomb hospitals, regardless of who's in them. One of the first war crimes that civilized modern countries ever agreed on, and you're out here making excuses for why Israel (the Middle East's shining beacon of democracy and human rights) is doing it left and right-- I'm almost impressed you're willing to sink so low.

To consider Hamas a legal combatant is wrong, both legally and morally. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Its members are terrorists. If you are American or live in the European Union, Canada, Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Paraguay or the UK, then your government designates them a terrorist organization.

Hamas is not a modern or civilized state. It is illegal and a terror organization. Its fighters are not to be regarded as legitimate combatants and as such, locations that shelter them are legitimate military targets. I have no doubt whatsoever an ISIS hospital would be targeted. A Al-Qaeda hospital would be targeted. Because they aren't a legitimate military. For example, it is a war crime to use gas. Using tear gas is considered a war crime. But nations can still legally use it outside of war on protesters often.

Besides this justification, the Geneva Convention does state that protection afforded to hospitals and medical personnel “shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.” Not to mention medical neutrality will cease to exist when the medical facilities are used in order to house weapons or soldiers or using the medical facilities for purposes other than medical assistance and/or aid to the public.

Yes, it's bad that Hamas fired first, but what do you expect after the Israelis fire tear gas inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque during Ramadan after trying to evict a bunch of Palestinians from East Jerusalem? For the Israelis to constantly paint themselves as the innocent victim to the world after provoking attacks from a government they've allowed to take and stay in power (they are still the occupying power responsible for Gaza, it's not a sovereign recognized entity), and for that supposed victimhood to justify the kind of punishment they're doling out on Gaza, is just absurd.

They are justified to act under their right to self-defense, not based on their victimhood. The only reason the Hamas terror regime remains in power is because of international opposition. If it was up to them, these areas would have been annexed.

It is. It literally is their fault. They're the ones who developed a massive air force and a sophisticated missile defense system, and they're the ones who blockaded Gaza so thoroughly that Hamas doesn't have the resources to acquire its own air defenses and just has to make do with marginal improvements to its irrigation-pipe rockets.

It is not. Their actions are proportional. They launch a counter strike when they are attacked. Each Hamas attack has the potential to cause hundreds of casualties and much damage. Israel is lucky that it has advanced weapons systems. But this is notably not sustainable due to the $80,000 dollar price tag attached to each interceptor compared to the several hundred bucks for a rocket. Not to mention, Iran has suggested a multi-front attack would overwhelm their systems completely.

But to dumb the situation down. Think of it like this. When you use a gun to shoot something, it is a good rule not to shoot at anything you don't intend to destroy. When Hamas shoots a rocket off, it intends to destroy whatever it is shooting at. In this metaphor, Israel has a bullet-proof vest. That is its Iron Dome system. Hamas fully intends to destroy what it is shooting at, except Israel is able to stop it. That doesn't mean Israel doesn't have every right to shoot back. Until Hamas is destroyed or a ceasefire agreement reached, Israel has every right to eliminate anything in Gaza that poses a threat to its people, and it has an obligation to protect its people. It is about intent, not capability here. If you gave Hamas a hypersonic missile there is no doubt it would use it to strike Israel. So why should rockets be treated any different?

In this case, hundreds of Palestinian civilians.

I don't trust the Hamas health ministry, but they say what; 200 or so people have been killed by now? That is relatively low and not "hundreds." It is also likely they include non-civilians in that number. If Israel was like Hamas and targeted civilians, that number would be in the thousands by now.

Israel reports it has killed over 150 Hamas and other terrorist fighters so far. That is pretty good. Israel is doing well against the terrorists, and it is important that they are successful.

[-Ocelot-]

Looks like Israel has the upper hand, as expected. Let's see how far the Arab extremists of Hamas will go until they have to admit defeat.

[Fartsniffage]

To consider Hamas a legal combatant is wrong, both legally and morally. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Its members are terrorists. If you are American or live in the European Union, Canada, Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Paraguay or the UK, then your government designates them a terrorist organization.

The UK does not designate Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It designates The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades as a terrorist organisation. New Zealand and Australia take the same position.

The British government has experience with an internal terrorist threat and recognises the value of keeping the political and military wings of a group separate. It helps a lot when you want to talk and not just kill everyone.

[Senkaku]

Saying "it's a Hamas-operated hospital" about a hospital in Gaza is like saying "it's a VA hospital" in the US. That's just... a government hospital in the context of Gaza. Knowingly bombing hospitals is a war crime, even ones full of combatants-- why do you think military hospital ships have huge, highly visible markings and no camouflage? It's so anyone shooting at their fleet knows not to shoot at the fucking hospital ship. Same goes on land; don't bomb hospitals, regardless of who's in them. One of the first war crimes that civilized modern countries ever agreed on, and you're out here making excuses for why Israel (the Middle East's shining beacon of democracy and human rights) is doing it left and right-- I'm almost impressed you're willing to sink so low.

To consider Hamas a legal combatant is wrong, both legally and morally. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Its members are terrorists. If you are American or live in the European Union, Canada, Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Paraguay or the UK, then your government designates them a terrorist organization.

And yet practically speaking, it, along with the Israeli blockade forces, is the governing authority of Gaza, a functioning city with civilian administrators and hospitals and roads and public squares and shops and so on.

Hamas is not a modern or civilized state. It is illegal and a terror organization. Its fighters are not to be regarded as legitimate combatants and as such, locations that shelter them are legitimate military targets. I have no doubt whatsoever an ISIS hospital would be targeted. A Al-Qaeda hospital would be targeted. Because they aren't a legitimate military.

No, it would be a war crime to target civilian hospitals inside ISIS or Al-Qaeda controlled territory. It's why everyone got so fussed that the Russians were bombing hospitals in Syria, even when they were in territory controlled by the Islamist factions whose names I always forget. If they set up their own military (paramilitary, terrorist, whatever) facilities exclusively to treat their wounded fighters, then maybe you could make this case (although I would point out that then you're just using the subjective definition of "terrorist" to legally excuse otherwise horrific criminal behavior), but targeting civilian facilities in a major city that may also have a couple wounded fighters inside? No no.

For example, it is a war crime to use gas. Using tear gas is considered a war crime. But nations can still legally use it outside of war on protesters often.

The legality of using it on civilian protesters is actually a bit grayer than you might think.

Besides this justification, the Geneva Convention does state that protection afforded to hospitals and medical personnel “shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.”

That means the below, not just treating combatants.

Not to mention medical neutrality will cease to exist when the medical facilities are used in order to house weapons or soldiers or using the medical facilities for purposes other than medical assistance and/or aid to the public.

In which case, the Israelis should presumably offer the public whatever extraordinary evidence they have of the hospital's secret operations or storage facilities that led them to make the decision to actually strike it. Otherwise, they just bombed a civilian hospital, which is like War Crimes 101.

Yes, it's bad that Hamas fired first, but what do you expect after the Israelis fire tear gas inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque during Ramadan after trying to evict a bunch of Palestinians from East Jerusalem? For the Israelis to constantly paint themselves as the innocent victim to the world after provoking attacks from a government they've allowed to take and stay in power (they are still the occupying power responsible for Gaza, it's not a sovereign recognized entity), and for that supposed victimhood to justify the kind of punishment they're doling out on Gaza, is just absurd.

They are justified to act under their right to self-defense,

Self-defense against who? Against the Palestinian people in Gaza and Hamas as the democratic realization of their popular sovereignty? See, pro-Israeli types get very turned around, talking out both sides of their mouths about how Hamas is both an illegitimate terror organization who can be targeted with extreme prejudice and without regard for civilian casualties, and also how Hamas was democratically elected by the people of Gaza and therefore proves Palestinians are out to get Israel and can't be reasoned with.

not based on their victimhood.

That's literally what the "self-defense" excuse is. Provoke a rocket attack by launching mass evictions and invading a holy site during a holiday, then paint yourself as the victim and kill hundreds of Gazans with massive air and artillery strikes (while the US blocks an internationally-supported ceasefire so you can keep going and going).

The only reason the Hamas terror regime remains in power is because of international opposition. If it was up to them, these areas would have been annexed.

No, the only reason Hamas remains in power is because Israel withdrew from Gaza and has refused to re-occupy it (despite maintaining a blockade, providing it with water and power, and for all intents and purposes still being the occupying power responsible for it). Now that it would be difficult and bloody to re-occupy it, the Israelis are content to have a relatively harmless but controlled opposition like Hamas who can always be counted on to do something hotheaded in a crisis that lets the Israelis off the hook and gives them an excuse to deploy the full might of their military to back their ethnic cleansing campaign.

It is. It literally is their fault. They're the ones who developed a massive air force and a sophisticated missile defense system, and they're the ones who blockaded Gaza so thoroughly that Hamas doesn't have the resources to acquire its own air defenses and just has to make do with marginal improvements to its irrigation-pipe rockets.

It is not. Their actions are proportional. They launch a counter strike when they are attacked.

Their actions are manifestly not proportional, as the death toll on each side should probably indicate. Israel is vastly more powerful than Gaza and can bring considerably more firepower to bear, while Gaza has zero air defense capability (unlike Israel's nation-spanning missile systems).

In any case, you initially said it "wasn't their fault" that their actions are more effective, when it manifestly is. Hamas's resource shortages and Israel's military strength are both the product of Israeli policy.

Each Hamas attack has the potential to cause hundreds of casualties and much damage.

No, it doesn't, because...

Israel is lucky that it has advanced weapons systems.

But this is notably not sustainable due to the $80,000 dollar price tag attached to each interceptor compared to the several hundred bucks for a rocket.

Good thing the US is sending them billions of dollars and cutting deals with them to set up Iron Dome manufacturing plants over here, then!

Not to mention, Iran has suggested a multi-front attack would overwhelm their systems completely.

Well, as soon as the Iranian leadership develops a collective death wish, I'm sure that will become a huge problem. Iran doesn't want a real war with Israel and the last thing Hezbollah and Lebanon need right now is an invasion, so I don't think there's a lot of people who would actually get on board with such an operation-- but it does give the Israelis a thin rationalization for pounding Gaza.

But to dumb the situation down. Think of it like this. When you use a gun to shoot something, it is a good rule not to shoot at anything you don't intend to destroy. When Hamas shoots a rocket off, it intends to destroy whatever it is shooting at. In this metaphor, Israel has a bullet-proof vest. That is its Iron Dome system. Hamas fully intends to destroy what it is shooting at, except Israel is able to stop it.

Yes, I'm aware firing rockets displays lethal intent.

That doesn't mean Israel doesn't have every right to shoot back.

If someone shot you, knowing you're wearing a bulletproof vest, you're saying your response would be to kill their family members?

Until Hamas is destroyed or a ceasefire agreement reached, Israel has every right to eliminate anything in Gaza that poses a threat to its people, and it has an obligation to protect its people.

"Anything"? Given that you seem to take IDF press releases at their word without any questioning whatsoever, this is just an argument to let the Israelis bomb whatever they want, as much as they want, for however long they want, and to accept whatever excuses they offer us afterwards. What about Israel's obligations to the people of Gaza, whose city Israel controls all access to and supplies with water and power and food? Does Israel have no obligation to the people living in lands that it conquered and now occupies?

It is about intent, not capability here. If you gave Hamas a hypersonic missile there is no doubt it would use it to strike Israel. So why should rockets be treated any different?

Because... rockets are not a hypersonic missile? Capabilities and outcomes do matter here, I think. Israel has vastly more resources, it's able to simultaneously defend itself against almost all Hamas attacks while subjecting Gaza to an extremely severe bombardment, and it's also the authority ultimately responsible for Gaza (since as you say, Hamas is not a recognized state actor). The Israelis have an obligation not to wipe the floor with the civilian population in their efforts to subdue terrorism in one of their occupied territories.

In this case, hundreds of Palestinian civilians.

I don't trust the Hamas health ministry, but they say what; 200 or so people have been killed by now? That is relatively low and not "hundreds."

Two hundred people is definitionally "hundreds" of people, actually. Hundreds, plural form of hundred. Two is more than one, so the plural should be used. But if you'd prefer I could use "dozens" or "scores," does that make it better somehow?

It is also likely they include non-civilians in that number. If Israel was like Hamas and targeted civilians, that number would be in the thousands by now.

Israel already appears to have targeted civilians; the fact that it has the capability to do so on a far more horrific scale is irrelevant. Yes, they could just nuke Gaza, but the fact that they haven't isn't a mark in their favor in itself.

Israel reports it has killed over 150 Hamas and other terrorist fighters so far. That is pretty good. Israel is doing well against the terrorists, and it is important that they are successful.

You don't trust the Gazan healthy ministry, but you do trust the Israeli defense ministry? You take them at their word that every single one of those people were "terrorist fighters"? After all the shit the US went through with this, just categorizing anyone and everyone who got caught in an airstrike as a combatant?

[Kowani]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

[Insaanistan]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

For context, this is Surah al-Fil
“Have you not heard how your lord dealt with the People of the Elephant?
How he ruined their plans to destroy the Kaaba?
He sent against them a flock of birds
Throwing upon them rocks of baked clay
Leaving them like chewed up leaves.”
Even if we ignore the context, Israel trying to use these verses makes little sense.

In the context, this story is when a jealous king in Yemen built a church or temple but saw that people were still going to the Kaaba, and so he came up with the grand plan to destroy it (this was all taking place a few months before Muhammad pbuh was born). He gathered some African elephants and an army and marched towards Makkah. Hearing this, everyone in Makkah kinda bolted for the mountains. Abraha (the guy in church of the army) wanted to meet with the “King of Makkah”, and so the Makkans picked and old wise guy since, you know, Makkah didn’t have a king. Who was this old wise guy? Muhammad (S)’s grandpa. The guy meets with Abraha, affirms God is on the side of the people of Makkah, then leaves. Abraha still decides the next day to destroy the Kaaba. However, there was a problem. The Elephants had no problem destroying buildings in Makkah. But when faced towards the Kaaba they kinda just stayed there and didn’t move. Then, a bunch of birds carrying rocks came in a swarm and pelted the army. The rocks reportedly didn’t hit any of the elephants, and left many of the soldiers alone (it is asserted the soldiers left alive were ones who were forced into Abraha’s army).
So basically... Israel doesn’t realize that in reality the verses are saying God is on the side of the righteous, and if they really want to make reference to this story, they would put down their weapons and hand all the bomber Jets to the Palestinians.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

Are they comparing themselves to....God? What

[Fahran]

only remaining power plant in Gaza expected to stop working soon due to lack of fuel after Israel banned the transportation of fuel into the Strip

Theoretically the egyptians could ship some through Rafah.

I'm skeptical the Egyptian government would be keen on resupplying Hamas or Gaza in general.

[Kowani]

The UN gives a breakdown on the death toll

According to OHCHR, of the 200 Palestinians who have been killed in Gaza, 116 are civilians, including three pregnant women, two disabled persons, and 61 children, of which 18 were UNRWA students

[Muzehnaya]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

Abu Musa reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, Allah Almighty will give respite to the wrongdoer until he seizes him and he cannot escape.” Then the Prophet recited the verse, “Such is the seizure of your Lord, when he takes hold of the cities while they are doing wrong. Verily, his seizure is agonizing and severe.”

[Fahran]

Looks like Israel has the upper hand, as expected. Let's see how far the Arab extremists of Hamas will go until they have to admit defeat.

Nobody ever admits defeat in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. They just agree to another temporary ceasefire until someone does something stupid and the fighting resumes.

[Fartsniffage]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

Abu Musa reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, Allah Almighty will give respite to the wrongdoer until he seizes him and he cannot escape.” Then the Prophet recited the verse, “Such is the seizure of your Lord, when he takes hold of the cities while they are doing wrong. Verily, his seizure is agonizing and severe.”

Who gives a shit? Religion is made up, real people are dying.

This is a racial conflict being made worse because both sides believe in a slightly different interpretation of a sky fairy. Move past that and the whole thing is about land.

[Herzpunkt]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

Are they comparing themselves to....God? What

Idk but its pretty based

[Samudera Darussalam]

Are they comparing themselves to....God? What

Idk but its pretty based

It's pretty cringe too tbh

[Celritannia]

Theoretically the egyptians could ship some through Rafah.

I'm skeptical the Egyptian government would be keen on resupplying Hamas or Gaza in general.

So the people don;t need fuel to survive because, god forbid, it might help hamas.

[Fahran]

Israel taunts Palestinians by using Quran verses (Chapter 105 of the Quran, Al-Fīl) in tweet to justify bombing Palestine

Are they comparing themselves to....God? What

I think they're implying G-d is on the side of Israel while, at the same time, likening their bombers to the birds from the passage. It's not ineffective propaganda if the intention is to demoralize those who see it. The YPG/YPJ tended to refer to ISIL as "infidels" or "mercenaries" despite not being especially invested in religion or nationalism for similar reasons.

[Herzpunkt]

Idk but its pretty based

It's pretty cringe too tbh

Citing your own enemys holy book while they try to fight a jihad against you? Based as fuck.

Hamas should start whipping out the torah for giggles

[Odreria]

all Christians and Muslims are called to wage holy war against zionism.

[Herzpunkt]

all Christians and Muslims are called to wage holy war against zionism.

Christians are no longer based though, they are soft asf, Pope wouldnt even have the balls to call for a Crusade.

[Fahran]

So the people don;t need fuel to survive because, god forbid, it might help hamas.

I'm not saying it's right, but this isn't really an uncommon situation when a war goes from being fought conventionally to being fought unconventionally and to the bitter end. World War II, especially, had a lot to do with grinding down the morale on the homefront through systematic bombing and the destruction of vital economic infrastructure. The Syrian Civil War and the Yemeni Civil War have followed similar trajectories, albeit with substantially higher casualties. Egypt is not on friendly terms with Hamas given past agitations, and I doubt the Egyptian government is going to rush to assist an Islamist militant group.

[Herzpunkt]

So the people don;t need fuel to survive because, god forbid, it might help hamas.

I'm not saying it's right, but this isn't really an uncommon situation when a war goes from being fought conventionally to being fought unconventionally and to the bitter end. World War II, especially, had a lot to do with grinding down the morale on the homefront through systematic bombing and the destruction of vital economic infrastructure. The Syrian Civil War and the Yemeni Civil War have followed similar trajectories, albeit with substantially higher casualties. Egypt is not on friendly terms with Hamas given past agitations, and I doubt the Egyptian government is going to rush to assist an Islamist militant group.

By all accounts egypt is pushing itself away from the islamic world

[Fartsniffage]

It's pretty cringe too tbh

Citing your own enemys holy book while they try to fight a jihad against you? Based as fuck.

Hamas should start whipping out the torah for giggles

The Torah is all about genocide. Not sure that's a good thing to be hoping for if you're Palestinian. God could do it back in the stone age, Israel could do it to the Gaza Strip right now.....