67 Palestinian and 7 Israeli Civilians Killed in Conflict

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

I dont think people who bomb a hospital and news headquarters and who ordered their men to fire on civilians in 2014 deserve trust or respect or anything good for the matter. They deserve to be called out.

More than one hospital along with numerous health clinics, some of which belonged to MSF and are known to the IDF, and also bombing the roads leading to them.

Everyone is so quick to call out the suffering the IDF has imposed, but lets take a look at Hamas. They have redirected fuel from their power plants for use in rockets, and who's rockets have damaged their own power lines. (Power lines in which give power from Israel to Gaza)

They are the ones at fault for the lack of electricity and running water, and this has a bigger impact than targeted airstrikes.

[Insaanistan]

More than one hospital along with numerous health clinics, some of which belonged to MSF and are known to the IDF, and also bombing the roads leading to them.

Everyone is so quick to call out the suffering the IDF has imposed, but lets take a look at Hamas. They have redirected fuel from their power plants for use in rockets, and who's rockets have damaged their own power lines. (Power lines in which give power from Israel to Gaza)

They are the ones at fault for the lack of electricity and running water, and this has a bigger impact than targeted airstrikes.

It’s more Israel literally cutting the strip off from that stuff than Hamas accidentally hitting it.

[Zapato]

But hey, we can put that aside. Let’s go with your figure of 2.1:1. Can we draw the conclusion that the Israelis are deliberately attempting to butcher the civilian populace of Palestine if their casualty ratio is equivalent to the best on record in the modern era?

You keep saying that, but I'm not sure which occupying forces you're comparing?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

More than one hospital along with numerous health clinics, some of which belonged to MSF and are known to the IDF, and also bombing the roads leading to them.

Everyone is so quick to call out the suffering the IDF has imposed, but lets take a look at Hamas. They have redirected fuel from their power plants for use in rockets, and who's rockets have damaged their own power lines. (Power lines in which give power from Israel to Gaza)

They are the ones at fault for the lack of electricity and running water, and this has a bigger impact than targeted airstrikes.

Nice to see you bring out the whataboutism again.

[Muzehnaya]

More than one hospital along with numerous health clinics, some of which belonged to MSF and are known to the IDF, and also bombing the roads leading to them.

Everyone is so quick to call out the suffering the IDF has imposed, but lets take a look at Hamas. They have redirected fuel from their power plants for use in rockets, and who's rockets have damaged their own power lines. (Power lines in which give power from Israel to Gaza)

They are the ones at fault for the lack of electricity and running water, and this has a bigger impact than targeted airstrikes.

I would appreciate sources for both these claims. And even if this is true, Israel has caused far more suffering than just hitting power lines and causing a lack of fuel.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Found some interesting statistics for those who seem to be claiming that Israel is deliberately targeting civilians as a matter of military policy: civilian casualty ratios. During the Chechen Wars, Russia averaged 8.9 civilians killed for every militant. The UN effort in Kosovo had a ratio of more like 4:1. The Iraq War had a ratio of 3:1. Estimates for various points in the Palestinian conflict have ranged as high as 1:30, however, and only ever as low as 1:1.

But hey, we can put that aside. Let’s go with your figure of 2.1:1. Can we draw the conclusion that the Israelis are deliberately attempting to butcher the civilian populace of Palestine if their casualty ratio is equivalent to the best on record in the modern era?

You keep saying that, but I'm not sure which occupying forces you're comparing?

[Fahran]

It’s more Israel literally cutting the strip off from that stuff than Hamas accidentally hitting it.

Hamas is largely responsible for the escalation in Gaza at the moment. They dramatically increased the rate of rocket and mortar attacks into southern Israel in response to the clashes around al-Aqsa. That said, Israel's targeting of medical facilities in particular is not excusable. Nor is the killing of children and other civilians on such an absurd scale. Boots on the ground will likely reduce civilian casualties relative to militant casualties, but this is going to be a veritable blood bath either way. At least until a ceasefire occurs.

[Fahran]

Found some interesting statistics for those who seem to be claiming that Israel is deliberately targeting civilians as a matter of military policy: civilian casualty ratios. During the Chechen Wars, Russia averaged 8.9 civilians killed for every militant. The UN effort in Kosovo had a ratio of more like 4:1. The Iraq War had a ratio of 3:1. Estimates for various points in the Palestinian conflict have ranged as high as 1:30, however, and only ever as low as 1:1.

Thoughts? Discuss?

With regard to the Second Chechen War, it's estimated that 16,299 Chechen soldiers and militants were killed compared to as many as 80,000 people in total. That would equal out to about 4 civilians for every 1 militant killed. There's an indication that both sides heavily exaggerated the percentage of military casualties. Israel doesn't seem to be deliberately trying to murder civilians, though the high occurrence of civilian casualties and attacks on essential infrastructure, such as hospitals, do warrant closer examination.

[New haven america]

It’s more Israel literally cutting the strip off from that stuff than Hamas accidentally hitting it.

Hamas is largely responsible for the escalation in Gaza at the moment. They dramatically increased the rate of rocket and mortar attacks into southern Israel in response to the clashes around al-Aqsa. That said, Israel's targeting of medical facilities in particular is not excusable. Nor is the killing of children and other civilians on such an absurd scale. Boots on the ground will likely reduce civilian casualties relative to militant casualties, but this is going to be a veritable blood bath either way. At least until a ceasefire occurs.

Well yeah, the number of deaths is of course going to rise because Israel under far-right leadership is ethnically cleansing Palestine.

[Fahran]

Well yeah, the number of deaths is of course going to rise because Israel under far-right leadership is ethnically cleansing Palestine.

Likud is center-right within the context of Israeli politics. There has been a recent shift towards a more hawkish position to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, stemming somewhat from the effects of the Second Intifada and the growing sense that there is no partner in the peace process, but characterizing this as the ascendancy of the far-right in Israel is not altogether discerning or accurate. The far-right, when it comes to the peace process, is Yisrael Beiteinu, Jewish Home, and the Kahanists. Heck, even Shas is often to the right of Likud these days.

[Kowani]

Israel bombs an...ice cream factory???

[The Alamann]

Hamas is largely responsible for the escalation in Gaza at the moment. They dramatically increased the rate of rocket and mortar attacks into southern Israel in response to the clashes around al-Aqsa. That said, Israel's targeting of medical facilities in particular is not excusable. Nor is the killing of children and other civilians on such an absurd scale. Boots on the ground will likely reduce civilian casualties relative to militant casualties, but this is going to be a veritable blood bath either way. At least until a ceasefire occurs.

Well yeah, the number of deaths is of course going to rise because Israel under far-right leadership is ethnically cleansing Palestine.

Far-right? Hardly. I suppose if your opping off of, say, Sweden or Canada’s scale, sure…
Of course defending your national sovereignty from an enemy who throws block parties as missiles plummet into your land these days is far-right extremism and not simple national survival and maintenance of order.

[The Alamann]

Israel bombs an...ice cream factory???

No shakes now… :/

[New haven america]

Well yeah, the number of deaths is of course going to rise because Israel under far-right leadership is ethnically cleansing Palestine.

Far-right? Hardly. I suppose if your opping off of, say, Sweden or Canada’s scale, sure…
Of course defending your national sovereignty from an enemy who throws block parties as missiles plummet into your land these days is far-right extremism and not simple national survival and maintenance of order.

Do you not believe that parties who actively partake in ethnic cleansing are extremist in their views?

[Muzehnaya]

Israel bombs an...ice cream factory???

The ice cream was Hamas.

[The Alamann]

Far-right? Hardly. I suppose if your opping off of, say, Sweden or Canada’s scale, sure…
Of course defending your national sovereignty from an enemy who throws block parties as missiles plummet into your land these days is far-right extremism and not simple national survival and maintenance of order.

Do you not believe that parties who actively partake in ethnic cleansing are extremist in their views?

Mahmoud Abbas for instant example.

[Fahran]

Do you not believe that parties who actively partake in ethnic cleansing are extremist in their views?

Literally, everyone involved in this conflict is arguing for ethnic cleansing on some level. You're comparing apples to oranges when you try to slot the political systems of countries that have been largely at peace since the 1950s to nations that have been embroiled in an ethnic conflict stretching back to the 1910s. I do not think Fatah (center-left) or the UN (broadly neoliberal) is far-right.

[Insaanistan]

Israel bombs an...ice cream factory???

They were after the notorious jihadist group feared throughout the region: ICES.

[Fahran]

Israel bombs an...ice cream factory???

They were after the notorious jihadist group feared throughout the region: ICES.

This made me giggle.

[Insaanistan]

It’s more Israel literally cutting the strip off from that stuff than Hamas accidentally hitting it.

Hamas is largely responsible for the escalation in Gaza at the moment. They dramatically increased the rate of rocket and mortar attacks into southern Israel in response to the clashes around al-Aqsa. That said, Israel's targeting of medical facilities in particular is not excusable. Nor is the killing of children and other civilians on such an absurd scale. Boots on the ground will likely reduce civilian casualties relative to militant casualties, but this is going to be a veritable blood bath either way. At least until a ceasefire occurs.

I think Israeli troops throwing stun grenades and firing bullets into the third holiest mosque on the planet in the holiest Friday of the Holiest month of the Islamic calendar while people were praying after brutal suppression of protests against the planned ethnic cleansing of a neighborhood where Israel has no jurisdiction might have been what’s responsible for the escalation.

[Insaanistan]

They were after the notorious jihadist group feared throughout the region: ICES.

This made me giggle.

Yay!

[Herzpunkt]

Hamas is largely responsible for the escalation in Gaza at the moment. They dramatically increased the rate of rocket and mortar attacks into southern Israel in response to the clashes around al-Aqsa. That said, Israel's targeting of medical facilities in particular is not excusable. Nor is the killing of children and other civilians on such an absurd scale. Boots on the ground will likely reduce civilian casualties relative to militant casualties, but this is going to be a veritable blood bath either way. At least until a ceasefire occurs.

I think Israeli troops throwing stun grenades and firing bullets into the third holiest mosque on the planet in the holiest Friday of the Holiest month of the Islamic calendar while people were praying after brutal suppression of protests against the planned ethnic cleansing of a neighborhood where Israel has no jurisdiction might have been what’s responsible for the escalation.

No hamas rocket fire escalated it to lethal munitions.

[Kowani]

Meanwhile, Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) suggests the Associated Press colluded with Hamas

this is not out of the normal for cotton's batshit insanity, but it's unique in that there's no racism this time

[Herzpunkt]

Meanwhile, Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) suggests the Associated Press colluded with Hamas

this is not out of the normal for cotton's batshit insanity, but it's unique in that there's no racism this time

I wouldnt doubt for a second the AP has pro hamas journalists colluding with hamas

These groups are not allowed to do whatever they want in palestine without Hamas having the final say on what they can/cannot do.

So yes, its totally likley some work with hamas

[Muzehnaya]

Meanwhile, Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) suggests the Associated Press colluded with Hamas

this is not out of the normal for cotton's batshit insanity, but it's unique in that there's no racism this time

I wouldnt doubt for a second the AP has pro hamas journalists colluding with hamas

These groups are not allowed to do whatever they want in palestine without Hamas having the final say on what they can/cannot do.

So yes, its totally likley some work with hamas

This is the dumbest thing I've read today.