67 Palestinian and 7 Israeli Civilians Killed in Conflict

[Kubra]

It's not that you have to support or choose for one side here. Like you can be against Israels actions without necessarily siding with the other one.

That's true, yet unless I'm imagining it the one-sided threads and posts whenever Israel does something looks like the writing between the lines is 'See- blue team proved wrong, support green team'

That is because Israel is capable of employing much more destructive weaponry.
When Hamas hits something its kind of anamolous, even more so if someone actually gets hurt. When Israel hits something and injures at least a dozen it's an average Tuesday.

[Ifreann]

They probably couldn't.

Yeah, I think that's a common issue. It is hard to believe that anyone would deliberately launch missiles from near a hospital or residential block, endangering innocent lives from retaliation. But if your most effective weapon is international pressure, how better to garner attention than to put your enemy in a circumstance where they either let such attacks go unanswered or endanger said innocent lives.

That's not what I'm getting at at all. I have no difficulty believing that people would launch rockets from near a hospital or residential block. But I don't think that any amount of verification from Israel can justify bombing a hospital in an effort to kill people who very obviously fled the area as soon as the rockets launched, if not sooner. "We had to bomb that hospital" is not something I think I could ever believe.

[Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories]

Yeah, I think that's a common issue. It is hard to believe that anyone would deliberately launch missiles from near a hospital or residential block, endangering innocent lives from retaliation. But if your most effective weapon is international pressure, how better to garner attention than to put your enemy in a circumstance where they either let such attacks go unanswered or endanger said innocent lives.

That's not what I'm getting at at all. I have no difficulty believing that people would launch rockets from near a hospital or residential block. But I don't think that any amount of verification from Israel can justify bombing a hospital in an effort to kill people who very obviously fled the area as soon as the rockets launched, if not sooner. "We had to bomb that hospital" is not something I think I could ever believe.

Precisely. The fact that they are bombing hospitals, media infrastructure, etc. demonstrates that the Israeli objective is simply to destroy, and attempt to make Gaza unliveable for Palestinians.

[Jarvikan]

When will we stop arguing about how Israel is bad and Palestine is good vice versa and realise that it would be easy to simply grant Palestine independence either by Gaza or West Bank.

Palestine didn,t accept that deal,sadly

[Fartsniffage]

They probably couldn't.

Yeah, I think that's a common issue. It is hard to believe that anyone would deliberately launch missiles from near a hospital or residential block, endangering innocent lives from retaliation. But if your most effective weapon is international pressure, how better to garner attention than to put your enemy in a circumstance where they either let such attacks go unanswered or endanger said innocent lives.

There is also the fact that the Gaza strip has a ridiculous population density. 5,453 people per Km2. Pretty much everywhere is next to a civilian area or target.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/israel ... -children/

Hamas launch site is when there's some Arabs the Israeli war machine wants to murder and the more they wanna kill them, the hamas launch siter it is.

Btw I'm still struggling to understand how the BBC headquarters in Gaza are a Hamas target. May just be me but it appears Israel's targeting the free press now like how most authoritarian dystopias do.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

That's not what I'm getting at at all. I have no difficulty believing that people would launch rockets from near a hospital or residential block. But I don't think that any amount of verification from Israel can justify bombing a hospital in an effort to kill people who very obviously fled the area as soon as the rockets launched, if not sooner. "We had to bomb that hospital" is not something I think I could ever believe.

Precisely. The fact that they are bombing hospitals, media infrastructure, etc. demonstrates that the Israeli objective is simply to destroy, and attempt to make Gaza unliveable for Palestinians.

Israel is minimizing civilian casualties the same way Harry Truman did when he dropped a nuclear bomb on Nagasaki.

[Vassenor]

So Israel is bombing foreign media offices and refugee camps.

#WarCrimeCentral

[Kowani]

Israel destroys building holding Associated Press offices, destroys building holding AL Jazeera press offices
the building also apparently held the AFP office as well
watching it come down is just...odd

apparently, Israel refused a request from the building's owner to give the media organizations time to get their equipment out

(i'm also getting reports that the BBC was based out of that tower, waiting to confirm)
EDIT: confirmed

the IDF is claiming Hamas hid assets in the building
how dumb do they think we are
meanwhile, the AP calls bullshit

So Israel is bombing foreign media offices and refugee camps.

#WarCrimeCentral

this isn't twitter

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

(i'm also getting reports that the BBC was based out of that tower, waiting to confirm)
EDIT: confirmed

the IDF is claiming Hamas hid assets in the building
how dumb do they think we are
meanwhile, the AP calls bullshit

So Israel is bombing foreign media offices and refugee camps.

#WarCrimeCentral

this isn't twitter

Right under the tweet you cited doesn't it say "To clarify: This doesn't mean the IDF lied! It means it made an allegation the AP was unaware of (happens, it doesn't know everything) and has yet to produce hard evidence."

Maybe people should wait before jumping to conclusions? Hamas is known for using civilians as shields. Israel says the building housed Hamas intelligence. If it did it is unlikely average people working there would know. It is unlikely they would put a sign outside their office saying 'Hamas Intelligence.' That would be like if the CIA provided a public map of all their buildings.

[Kowani]

the IDF is claiming Hamas hid assets in the building
how dumb do they think we are
meanwhile, the AP calls bullshit


this isn't twitter

Right under the tweet you cited doesn't it say "To clarify: This doesn't mean the IDF lied! It means it made an allegation the AP was unaware of (happens, it doesn't know everything) and has yet to produce hard evidence."

Eylon Levy is not an AP journalist or affiliated with them in any way
his attempt to run defense for the IDF carries literally no weight

Maybe people should wait before jumping to conclusions? Hamas is known for using civilians as shields. Israel says the building housed Hamas intelligence. If it did it is unlikely average people working there would know. It is unlikely they would put a sign outside their office saying 'Hamas Intelligence.' That would be like if the CIA provided a public map of all their buildings.

it seems exceedingly unlikely that every international journalistic organization-the AP, the BBC, the AFP, Al Jazeera, etc-just missed the fact that there were terrorists working under their nose
these are not "average working people"
nor does bombing an intelligence office make sense from a military standpoint if you give them warning
there were no casualties
so what exactly did hamas lose? a monthly rent payment and some furniture?
and proof from the IDF?
...none
at all
it is vastly more likely that the IDF lied about the presence of Hamas assets-a thing they routinely do to justify striking civilians

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Right under the tweet you cited doesn't it say "To clarify: This doesn't mean the IDF lied! It means it made an allegation the AP was unaware of (happens, it doesn't know everything) and has yet to produce hard evidence."

Eylon Levy is not an AP journalist or affiliated with them in any way
his attempt to run defense for the IDF carries literally no weight

Maybe people should wait before jumping to conclusions? Hamas is known for using civilians as shields. Israel says the building housed Hamas intelligence. If it did it is unlikely average people working there would know. It is unlikely they would put a sign outside their office saying 'Hamas Intelligence.' That would be like if the CIA provided a public map of all their buildings.

it seems exceedingly unlikely that every international journalistic organization-the AP, the BBC, the AFP, Al Jazeera, etc-just missed the fact that there were terrorists working under their nose
these are not "average working people"
nor does bombing an intelligence office make sense from a military standpoint if you give them warning
there were no casualties
so what exactly did hamas lose? a monthly rent payment and some furniture?
and proof from the IDF?
...none
at all
it is vastly more likely that the IDF lied about the presence of Hamas assets-a thing they routinely do to justify striking civilians

So in short, the source you provided "carries literally no weight." That sounds about right.

There are a lot of contradictions here. If journalists "are not average working people" and are able to figure out that an intelligence agency works in their office, then why didn't they know that their building was going to be struck way beforehand? An office building is big. It is unlikely they would know everyone on every level and that they would be able to tell an intelligence operative from a regular person. It isn't as if it is a common thing for a building owner to investigate if their building is being used by terrorists. Israel said the building was used by Hamas intelligence, not militants walking up the stairs with rockets.

It would make sense if Hamas would station intelligence in a media building. That way they could feed information, try and prevent the disclosure of information, and be able to quickly find out information. Weren't people complaining about how Israel duped Hamas into thinking they were launching a ground invasion by using the media? That could be an example of how Hamas uses the media to gather information. Being in the same building could mean they could potentially get the information quicker.

Your comment about a warning is also contradictory to your previous post:

-snip-
apparently, Israel refused a request from the building's owner to give the media organizations time to get their equipment out

Giving them a warning was to get the civilians out. If the media didn't have time to get its equipment out, Hamas intelligence wouldn't have either. Thus they lost one of their "secure" locations, intelligence gathering equipment, and likely morale.

Yes Israel has not yet released proof. But would anything be enough for some people? Israel likely still plans to target Hamas intelligence and other terrorists so it would be unwise for them to release all sorts of information about whom they were targeting. A lot of war is making statements, and it seems Israel is a more reliable source than media organizations who also can't definitively prove Hamas wasn't in the building or Hamas itself.

[Muzehnaya]

Yes Israel has not yet released proof. But would anything be enough for some people? Israel likely still plans to target Hamas intelligence and other terrorists so it would be unwise for them to release all sorts of information about whom they were targeting. A lot of war is making statements, and it seems Israel is a more reliable source than media organizations who also can't definitively prove Hamas wasn't in the building or Hamas itself.

Israel, a nation who is participating in the conflict, should be more trusted to give out reliable information than the international news outlets? That's a take if I've ever seen one. Literally on this very page, there are people praising Israel's brilliant disinformation campaign, and we should now take them at their word without proof? That's absurd.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Really makes you think

[Nakena]

Really makes you think

Zahal is simply far more effective than Hamas.

[Herzpunkt]

Hamas just called Israel an “alleged entity” lol

[Samudera Darussalam]

Regarding Israeli air strikes, I don't think Israel always gives warning for civilians to gtfo. Like what I just read regarding one of the latest strikes, the people in said refugee camp aren't even being given a warning. So, I'm not sure if I should trust Israeli source that they are only after Hamas fighters.

I know that some people much earlier have drawn comparison to Allied bombings of German cities such as Dresden in WWII. That might be part of the strategy to demoralize the opponents, but as much as we would like to justify it ourselves today, I can't in my conscience to do that.
I know that Hamas is also being indiscriminate, but so far the victims of Israel have been greater in number.

[Kingdom Of Deutchland]

Honestly, I support Israel here, and In my opinion I think Palestine, kinda sucks.

[Nakena]

Honestly, I support Israel here, and In my opinion I think Palestine, kinda sucks.

Based on what?

[Kingdom Of Deutchland]

Honestly, I support Israel here, and In my opinion I think Palestine, kinda sucks.

Based on what?

Israel, should deserve the land, they've been pushed around a lot, like their neighbors in the middle east sending airstrikes, holocaust, etc. Jews were there, in the land, and Palestine, they are basically like terrorists. They're sending out airstrikes, and killing dozens of innocents. I am not saying that Israel aint doin' that, infact they are, but Palestine, is doing it way more. They also kinda started this whole 2021 conflict, cause of Eid, or whatever in Jerusalem.

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Yes Israel has not yet released proof. But would anything be enough for some people? Israel likely still plans to target Hamas intelligence and other terrorists so it would be unwise for them to release all sorts of information about whom they were targeting. A lot of war is making statements, and it seems Israel is a more reliable source than media organizations who also can't definitively prove Hamas wasn't in the building or Hamas itself.

Israel, a nation who is participating in the conflict, should be more trusted to give out reliable information than the international news outlets? That's a take if I've ever seen one. Literally on this very page, there are people praising Israel's brilliant disinformation campaign, and we should now take them at their word without proof? That's absurd.

No nation in war or even observing nations can give precise information, but there is an extent where you come to trust them. The US for example, when it launches strikes provides as much detail as it can, and it tends to be relatively accurate. Israel is no different. They are very good a manipulating things for the media, but in this example, Israel is the most reliable source for if Hamas intelligence was in the building.

[Muzehnaya]

Israel, a nation who is participating in the conflict, should be more trusted to give out reliable information than the international news outlets? That's a take if I've ever seen one. Literally on this very page, there are people praising Israel's brilliant disinformation campaign, and we should now take them at their word without proof? That's absurd.

No nation in war or even observing nations can give precise information, but there is an extent where you come to trust them. The US for example, when it launches strikes provides as much detail as it can, and it tends to be relatively accurate. Israel is no different. They are very good a manipulating things for the media, but in this example, Israel is the most reliable source for if Hamas intelligence was in the building.

And if their intelligence is so reliable, why is there no proof given? Why has literally every single civilian building in Gaza becoming a "Hamas Base?" If this is so widespread, it logically follows that there must be an abundance of proof to support this; yet every single time proof is asked for, none is given.

[Herzpunkt]

No nation in war or even observing nations can give precise information, but there is an extent where you come to trust them. The US for example, when it launches strikes provides as much detail as it can, and it tends to be relatively accurate. Israel is no different. They are very good a manipulating things for the media, but in this example, Israel is the most reliable source for if Hamas intelligence was in the building.

And if their intelligence is so reliable, why is there no proof given? Why has literally every single civilian building in Gaza becoming a "Hamas Base?" If this is so widespread, it logically follows that there must be an abundance of proof to support this; yet every single time proof is asked for, none is given.

Actually ill play devils advocate

Hamas operates in dense urban area so most of their operations will be in or near civilians

[Washington Resistance Army]

Israel, a nation who is participating in the conflict, should be more trusted to give out reliable information than the international news outlets? That's a take if I've ever seen one. Literally on this very page, there are people praising Israel's brilliant disinformation campaign, and we should now take them at their word without proof? That's absurd.

No nation in war or even observing nations can give precise information, but there is an extent where you come to trust them. The US for example, when it launches strikes provides as much detail as it can, and it tends to be relatively accurate. Israel is no different. They are very good a manipulating things for the media, but in this example, Israel is the most reliable source for if Hamas intelligence was in the building.

Given how many of Israel's claims were labelled false or otherwise disproven in the 2014 conflict I'm not sure this is true.

[Muzehnaya]

And if their intelligence is so reliable, why is there no proof given? Why has literally every single civilian building in Gaza becoming a "Hamas Base?" If this is so widespread, it logically follows that there must be an abundance of proof to support this; yet every single time proof is asked for, none is given.

Actually ill play devils advocate

Hamas operates in dense urban area so most of their operations will be in or near civilians

Sure, let's assume that's the case. The IDF claims that Israel hid assets in the building, which is the reason the missile strike was carried out after all. Yet it seems absurd to think that no one in this building home to a host of media outlets noticed Hamas operatives smuggling in whatever their "assets" were.