by Insaanistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:14 am
by Dowaesk » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:54 am
by Outer Bratorke » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:55 am
by Austreylia » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:55 am
by Dowaesk » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:56 am
by Saiwania » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:57 am
by Insaanistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:57 am
by Austreylia » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:57 am
by Insaanistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:58 am
Saiwania wrote:All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.
by Outer Bratorke » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:59 am
by Austreylia » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:00 am
Saiwania wrote:All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.
by -Astoria- » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:00 am
Insaanistan wrote:Palestinians have cited that since the start of the Islamic holy month Ramadan, Israel has erected barriers around Damascus gate which they say is an attempt to block them from breaking fast in Jerusalem’s holy cities.
Outer Bratorke wrote:I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around it are under independent rule, where no groups are discriminated against, nor any group getting put above others.
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by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:13 am
by Saiwania » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:15 am
Austreylia wrote:Why do you think this way? I've said it before, and I'll say it again; neocons are lost in the sauce.
by Outer Bratorke » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:21 am
Outer Bratorke wrote:I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around
IIRC that was proposed in the 1947 partition plan, with the city outside the Jewish/Arab areas & under third-party rule.
by The Jamesian Republic » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:22 am
by Insaanistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:24 am
Outer Bratorke wrote:Outer Bratorke wrote:I feel like the only way Jerusalem can be become stable if it and the land around
IIRC that was proposed in the 1947 partition plan, with the city outside the Jewish/Arab areas & under third-party rule.
Yea, it was.
The thing we need to keep in mind where the idea of Israel came from. It was born around the time of extreme nationalism in Europe, and Jews were, as usual, getting attacked for being different. The creators of Zionism thought about it like this:
"People hate us just because were different"
Hey, I know! What if we got our own nation, so we could be part of the cool kids club, and make Jews respectable."
As the the create of Zionism were raised in a world of nationalism, they viewed it as only right they got their own place where they were in charge and the majority.
There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.
by Terraska » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:26 am
Insaanistan wrote:Saiwania wrote:All of Jerusalem is Israel's capital city. All who disagree or don't want to be under Israeli rule/law should arguably leave. That is what Israel won the 6 day war for.
“I came into your house, stabbed you several times over the course of a week, and reduced you to the attic and the basement. If you don’t like it, leave.”
No.
by Saiwania » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:29 am
Outer Bratorke wrote:There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.
by Aspistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:30 am
Saiwania wrote:Of course I'm not going to throw a more developed economy and society under the bus as opposed to a poorer one
by Insaanistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:30 am
Terraska wrote:Insaanistan wrote:“I came into your house, stabbed you several times over the course of a week, and reduced you to the attic and the basement. If you don’t like it, leave.”
No.
More like:
Once upon a time there were two brothers, living in the same house.
Brother 1 married a woman from overseas, brother 2 married the daughter of a distant cousin.
Then brother 2 accuses brother 1 of having filthy habits now that he lives with Overseas Woman, and suggest they leave the house.
Then a few distant cousins roll into the house, make brother 2's children give up their own habits, as well as the children of brother 1, which would be the end of the whole conflict - except for one daughter of brother 2 who marries an Armenian and then redecorates the house and the families living there "If momma ain't happy, nobody is".
- well, some children of brother 2 were still not happy, so that didn't go well. The house is effectively split.
Then there is a new landlord, who forces brother 2's descendants to leave.
Then there is a Persian landlord, who allows them to move back in.
Then a Macedonian landlord, followed by yet another landlord, who tries to move them back out.
Meanwhile, there is a wide spectre of somewhat related habits in the house, which is spreading all over the neighbourhood.
Then a Roman landlord, who expells all of brother 2's family. Result: one variety of the habits spreads all the way into the landlord's own neighbourhood, then spreads out as the new fashion.
A counterfashion is started in some very distant cousin's neighbourhood, which also spreads out. Brother 1's family follow both fashions. Brother 2's old ways are out of fashion, except with some hyper-angry disposessed descendants.
Iraqi landlord - Egyptian landlord - Turkish landlord - English landlord (who allow brother 2's family back into the house, even though brother 1's family no longer see them as family)
Brother 2 branch wrestles some rooms from the English ownership.
Landlord gives the remaining rooms to the neighbours, who have a French landlord.
The two branches of the family scrap over the whole house. Brother 2 branch wins, tells brother 1 branch to move into the attic. Neighbours refuse any and all help to brother 1 branch, as they hope to use that side of the family as a cudgel to remove branch 2. Branch 2 has American connections and European connection (who are having a collective guilt trip from whenthey were trying to kill branch 2), so that cudgel-plan is dead on arrival. It is still tried several times though, because why waste branch 1's despair?
Borth branches now hate each other with a vengeance.
by Aspistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:31 am
Saiwania wrote:If Jews gathered enough force to take it back for themselves, what exactly is wrong with that outcome?
by Insaanistan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:32 am
Saiwania wrote:Outer Bratorke wrote:There were exceptions, such as Judah Magnes, who called for living in peace and equality, and opposed kicking people out of their land. Sadly, no one listened to him, and all his dire prediction came to be true.
The Bible and enough archeological evidence suggests that the land in question is the point of origin for Jewish people anyways, hence it is their ancestral homeland. If Jews gathered enough force to take it back for themselves, what exactly is wrong with that outcome?
It is more the case that the Jewish people originally resided in what is now Israel, but were driven out by the Romans, and the Romans in turn were driven out by the Arabs, who were partially driven out by the Jews who returned from overseas.
by Republic of La Boca » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:32 am
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