NationStates

This is a sports thread. All politics are considered off topic. Unless you've been living under a rock, or not following sports very actively, you probably of a formation of a Super League. The members include:

Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Tottenham of the EPL
Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Atletico Madrid of La Liga
AC Milan, Inter Milan, and Juventus of Serie A

And there are 8 more clubs rumored to join, but they haven't committed. In response, the EUFA, as well as the English, Italian, and Spanish Federation threatened to ban the clubs. Sauces, cause it's getting saucy:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... per-league
https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2021/4 ... -with-bans

"AC Milan, Arsenal FC, Atlético de Madrid, Chelsea FC, FC Barcelona, FC Internazionale Milano, Juventus FC, Liverpool FC, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid CF and Tottenham Hotspur have all joined as Founding Clubs. It is anticipated that a further three clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable...

[Format]20 participating clubs with 15 Founding Clubs and a qualifying mechanism for a further five teams to qualify annually based on achievements in the prior season. Midweek fixtures with all participating clubs continuing to compete in their respective national leagues, preserving the traditional domestic match calendar which remains at the heart of the club game...

European football’s governing body UEFA has warned clubs linked to a breakaway Super League that they face being banned from domestic and international competitions if they set up a rival to the Champions League. In a joint statement on Sunday with Spanish, English and Italian leagues and federations, UEFA said it will consider “all measures”, including the courts, in opposition to plans for a breakaway competition.

“The clubs concerned will be banned from playing in any other competition at domestic, European or world level, and their players could be denied the opportunity to represent their national teams, UEFA said. UEFA is due to sign off on its own plans for an expanded and restructured Champions League on Monday but less than 24 hours before the meeting reports emerged of a new attempt at creating a rival competition involving the continent’s top clubs.

So, who's NSG supporting, the super-wealthy clubs or the super-wealthy UEFA? Personally, as long as the clubs continue to be dedicated to the domestic leagues, I don't see an issue. In the Champions League, a club only gets six guaranteed games, and seven games as the teams advance, which they may or may not play. With the new league, the teams get 18 games guaranteed. Furthermore, why's it the clubs' duty to subsidize other soccer teams from other countries?

I'm also wondering if teams are required to suit up their best squads for the Champions League. If Barcelona has El Clasico upcoming with Real Madrid, and playing against Genk beforehand, it'd be dumb to suit up the best squad against Genk.

I know there's a soccer thread on NSG, but I think that the European Super League deserves a thread of its own. So, NSG, let's hear it!

Edit: Bombadil correctly pointed out that the teams cannot play in their domestic leagues if they play in the Super League. I think that the domestic leagues should trump the Super League, so in addition to answer the OP, here's a hypothetical: would you rather have the Champions League or the Super League?


Edit #2: excellent summary from Outer Sparta:

Outer Sparta wrote:Here's all the battle lines being drawn:
- The big clubs all want to join the ESL because it would get the more money.
- UEFA opposes it because they would lose a lot of money (with the big teams breaking away)
- The leagues all oppose it because they would lose a lot of money (same reasoning as UEFA)
- FIFA [covertly supports] it but largely pretends to oppose it but behind the scenes they want it to happen because it's FIFA and they're corrupt.

Basically none of those aforementioned interest groups oppose it out of principle, but because their finances and revenue would be impacted.

Edit #3: Archie disagrees with the FIFA claim earlier and provides a counterargument, using PSG's Qatari ownership as an example:

The Archregimancy wrote:Several people in the thread have expressed scepticism over whether FIFA are really opposed to the new league. I suspect that they are, largely because it A) undermines their overall control of the game and B) it undermines their attempts to grow the FIFA-controlled FIFA Club World Cup. Any deal with the Super League would have to be negotiated either alongside UEFA or over the strong objections of UEFA, and it's difficult to see how that would work. That's not necessarily a defence of FIFA, only a note that they'll naturally oppose anything that undermines their control of the game or their ability to control the money flowing from the game; the new league potentially does both. The big clue is the refusal of Qatar-owned PSG to join the new league; perhaps they're playing a waiting game, but it seems that, at least for now, next year's World Cup means more to both Qatar (and FIFA) than the European Super League; PSG's ownership seem to be acting accordingly.

If I see an interesting post, I just might add it to the OP.

The European Super League will most likely create a massive split between fans and Leagues

I am no longer a Manchester United fan over this decision.

I will pick a new team after an appropriate period of mourning.

Tyrantio Land wrote:The European Super League will most likely create a massive split between fans and Leagues

Why? Is the Champions League really that important to local fans?

Fartsniffage wrote:I am no longer a Manchester United fan over this decision.

I will pick a new team after an appropriate period of mourning.

Why? I'd understand if Manchester decided to leave the EPL, but as long as it's staying in the EPL and playing in the new league, what's the issue?

Shofercia wrote:

Tyrantio Land wrote:The European Super League will most likely create a massive split between fans and Leagues

Why? Is the Champions League really that important to local fans?

Fartsniffage wrote:I am no longer a Manchester United fan over this decision.

I will pick a new team after an appropriate period of mourning.

Why? I'd understand if Manchester decided to leave the EPL, but as long as it's staying in the EPL and playing in the new league, what's the issue?

It goes against the very ethos of the game to have a closed league or competition with no relegation or promotion. It goes against the hope that, with the right fortune and spirit, a team like Leicester can win the PL, or Porto can win the CL, a run in the FA cup.

What they've done, given they won't get permission from UEFA etc., is to force a breakaway whereby they won't be playing in the PL, La Liga or Serie A, they'll just be a circus competition to generate money.

Bombadil wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
Why? Is the Champions League really that important to local fans?




Why? I'd understand if Manchester decided to leave the EPL, but as long as it's staying in the EPL and playing in the new league, what's the issue?

It goes against the very ethos of the game to have a closed league or competition with no relegation or promotion. It goes against the hope that, with the right fortune and spirit, a team like Leicester can win the PL, or Porto can win the CL, a run in the FA cup.

What they've done, given they won't get permission from UEFA etc., is to force a breakaway whereby they won't be playing in the PL, La Liga or Serie A, they'll just be a circus competition to generate money.

I get that, but I thought that they're staying with their respective national leagues. It certainly doesn't make sense for them to abandon the EPL, La Liga, or Serie A. From the OP:

...Midweek fixtures with all participating clubs continuing to compete in their respective national leagues, preserving the traditional domestic match calendar which...

Am I missing something?

Shofercia wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
It goes against the very ethos of the game to have a closed league or competition with no relegation or promotion. It goes against the hope that, with the right fortune and spirit, a team like Leicester can win the PL, or Porto can win the CL, a run in the FA cup.

What they've done, given they won't get permission from UEFA etc., is to force a breakaway whereby they won't be playing in the PL, La Liga or Serie A, they'll just be a circus competition to generate money.

I get that, but I thought that they're staying with their respective national leagues. It certainly doesn't make sense for them to abandon the EPL, La Liga, or Serie A. From the OP:

...Midweek fixtures with all participating clubs continuing to compete in their respective national leagues, preserving the traditional domestic match calendar which...

Am I missing something?

I can announce myself as a super-moderator and outline my expectations but the Moderation team might have a say and DOS me if I keep acting like a super-moderator and warning everyone in red text.

UEFA, the PL, La Liga and others have said if they go ahead they can't play in those respective competitions and anyone playing for those teams might be barred from international competition.

Here's all the battle lines being drawn:
- The big clubs all want to join the ESL because it would get the more money.
- UEFA opposes it because they would lose a lot of money (with the big teams breaking away)
- The leagues all oppose it because they would lose a lot of money (same reasoning as UEFA)
- FIFA opposes it but largely pretends to oppose it but behind the scenes they want it to happen because it's FIFA and they're corrupt.

Basically none of those aforementioned interest groups oppose it out of principle, but because their finances and revenue would be impacted.

What a disgrace to the sport. The top 6 have committed football seppuku with this. The reaction is universally negative, and I hear they’re going to crown PSG champions if the Super League is disqualified from the CL. I’m glad Everton’s owners aren’t so morally bankrupt.

Ikania wrote:What a disgrace to the sport. The top 6 have committed football seppuku with this. The reaction is universally negative, and I hear they’re going to crown PSG champions if the Super League is disqualified from the CL. I’m glad Everton’s owners aren’t so morally bankrupt.

PSG so far stays out but they'll inevitably get in after they get their CL and World Cup wrapped up. Cause why play the likes of Dijon and Brest when you can go against the elites every week?

Bombadil wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
I get that, but I thought that they're staying with their respective national leagues. It certainly doesn't make sense for them to abandon the EPL, La Liga, or Serie A. From the OP:



Am I missing something?

I can announce myself as a super-moderator and outline my expectations but the Moderation team might have a say and DOS me if I keep acting like a super-moderator and warning everyone in red text.

UEFA, the PL, La Liga and others have said if they go ahead they can't play in those respective competitions and anyone playing for those teams might be barred from international competition.

Fair point, but if they were allowed to play in the EPL/La Liga/Serie A, and fully committed to playing in those, would you still prefer the Champions League over the Super League?

I failed to make it clear in the OP, so thank you for catching that!

Outer Sparta wrote:Here's all the battle lines being drawn:
- The big clubs all want to join the ESL because it would get the more money.
- UEFA opposes it because they would lose a lot of money (with the big teams breaking away)
- The leagues all oppose it because they would lose a lot of money (same reasoning as UEFA)
- FIFA opposes it but largely pretends to oppose it but behind the scenes they want it to happen because it's FIFA and they're corrupt.

Basically none of those aforementioned interest groups oppose it out of principle, but because their finances and revenue would be impacted.

Don't you mean FIFA supports it, but largely pretends to oppose it?

Ikania wrote:What a disgrace to the sport. The top 6 have committed football seppuku with this. The reaction is universally negative, and I hear they’re going to crown PSG champions if the Super League is disqualified from the CL. I’m glad Everton’s owners aren’t so morally bankrupt.

I'm hoping that all clubs prioritize the domestic leagues over the Super League. So if it means delaying or cancelling the Super League to continue competing in the domestic leagues, they should do so. However, I don't see anything stopping the aforementioned twelve teams from only sending their second or third squads to play in the Champions League as retaliation.

Regards to this, it's nothing more than a fucking disgrace. Football as a whole is now doomed beyond the point of no return, countries buying an entire goddamn club, owners not knowing what the hell a football is, these same owners playing around with the people that are supposed to be in charge *looking at you Ceferin and Infantino*, its just a huge mess that will never be fixed. I rather watch La Fiorita and Drita face each other in the CL than having to watch Qatar against Abu Dhabi week after week after week. Whoever supports the Swiss model or the Super League, I'm sorry (but I'm not), but you lost all my respect.

Shofercia wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:Here's all the battle lines being drawn:
- The big clubs all want to join the ESL because it would get the more money.
- UEFA opposes it because they would lose a lot of money (with the big teams breaking away)
- The leagues all oppose it because they would lose a lot of money (same reasoning as UEFA)
- FIFA opposes it but largely pretends to oppose it but behind the scenes they want it to happen because it's FIFA and they're corrupt.

Basically none of those aforementioned interest groups oppose it out of principle, but because their finances and revenue would be impacted.

Don't you mean FIFA supports it, but largely pretends to oppose it?

I meant that FIFA "opposes" it by pretending to do so. In reality they obviously support the proposed changes because it's FIFA. They're the same ones that gave a World Cup to Qatar because bribery.

Now I’m really wondering if some clubs will be excluded from their domestic leagues over this.

Ikania wrote:Now I’m really wondering if some clubs will be excluded from their domestic leagues over this.

I hope so, they deserve it, they're asking for it

Shofercia wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
I can announce myself as a super-moderator and outline my expectations but the Moderation team might have a say and DOS me if I keep acting like a super-moderator and warning everyone in red text.

UEFA, the PL, La Liga and others have said if they go ahead they can't play in those respective competitions and anyone playing for those teams might be barred from international competition.

Fair point, but if they were allowed to play in the EPL/La Liga/Serie A, and fully committed to playing in those, would you still prefer the Champions League over the Super League?

I failed to make it clear in the OP, so thank you for catching that!

No I wouldn't, as mentioned before a lot of enjoyment of football is the possibility your team can one day win at the highest levels. My own team went from the 4th Division to the play-offs for the Premiership in 3 straight seasons back in the early 90's, with runs to the QF of the FA Cup.

Relegation battles can be just as, if not more, exciting than winning the league. To create a closed competition open only to the elite is a naked grab for money and television rights power to the detriment of all other clubs. They're already the richest and now they want more? And Arsenal are currently languishing 9th, Liverpool and Tottenham aren't currently looking to qualify for CL.. so.. what.. they just go and create their own competition to ensure they make money every season regardless of their performance?

Ikania wrote:Now I’m really wondering if some clubs will be excluded from their domestic leagues over this.

To them, they wouldn't even care anyway. If you can play the elites every week, then why play Ferencvaros or Red Bull Salzburg or Shakhtar or Ajax in the Champions League?

I imagined this would be about some kind of "Legion of Doom" thing but with EU members.... Sports stuff is good too though.

Rusozak wrote:I imagined this would be about some kind of "Legion of Doom" thing but with EU members.... Sports stuff is good too though.

Basically Agnelli and Florentino Perez came up with this idea. Yep, the same Agnelli who thinks Atalanta aren't good enough for the CL and Florentino Perez being... Florentino Perez.

Outer Sparta wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
Don't you mean FIFA supports it, but largely pretends to oppose it?

I meant that FIFA "opposes" it by pretending to do so. In reality they obviously support the proposed changes because it's FIFA. They're the same ones that gave a World Cup to Qatar because bribery.

Right, I just wanted to make sure that I get it right, since I was planning to put it into the OP.

The Champions League wrote:

Ikania wrote:Now I’m really wondering if some clubs will be excluded from their domestic leagues over this.

I hope so, they deserve it, they're asking for it

Unless they actually start the Super League and play games, excluding them for the mere idea of it, just ain't wise.

Bombadil wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
Fair point, but if they were allowed to play in the EPL/La Liga/Serie A, and fully committed to playing in those, would you still prefer the Champions League over the Super League?

I failed to make it clear in the OP, so thank you for catching that!

No I wouldn't, as mentioned before a lot of enjoyment of football is the possibility your team can one day win at the highest levels. My own team went from the 4th Division to the play-offs for the Premiership in 3 straight seasons back in the early 90's, with runs to the QF of the FA Cup.

Relegation battles can be just as, if not more, exciting than winning the league. To create a closed competition open only to the elite is a naked grab for money and television rights power to the detriment of all other clubs. They're already the richest and now they want more? And Arsenal are currently languishing 9th, Liverpool and Tottenham aren't currently looking to qualify for CL.. so.. what.. they just go and create their own competition to ensure they make money every season regardless of their performance?

Fair point, thank you for sharing. I'm still trying to figure this out, since the two announcements, although expected for quite some time, came out in quick succession. I didn't expect this much action in a single day from slow moving institutions.

Outer Sparta wrote:

Ikania wrote:Now I’m really wondering if some clubs will be excluded from their domestic leagues over this.

To them, they wouldn't even care anyway. If you can play the elites every week, then why play Ferencvaros or Red Bull Salzburg or Shakhtar or Ajax in the Champions League?

The danger is, especially if excluded from international competitions, serious players are less inclined to join these teams and it all becomes a kind of traveling Harlem Globetrotters experience.

Bombadil wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:To them, they wouldn't even care anyway. If you can play the elites every week, then why play Ferencvaros or Red Bull Salzburg or Shakhtar or Ajax in the Champions League?

The danger is, especially if excluded from international competitions, serious players are less inclined to join these teams and it all becomes a kind of traveling Harlem Globetrotters experience.

They're just trying to ruin the entire sport all to satisfy the whims of some power-hungry billionaires who own the elites. UEFA's Swiss Model proposal isn't good either, it's another dumpster fire designed to screw over the "small" teams.

Bombadil wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:To them, they wouldn't even care anyway. If you can play the elites every week, then why play Ferencvaros or Red Bull Salzburg or Shakhtar or Ajax in the Champions League?

The danger is, especially if excluded from international competitions, serious players are less inclined to join these teams and it all becomes a kind of traveling Harlem Globetrotters experience.

Wouldn't there still be excellent teams in the Champions League? There's has to be more than twelve elite teams in Europe.

Outer Sparta wrote:

Bombadil wrote:
The danger is, especially if excluded from international competitions, serious players are less inclined to join these teams and it all becomes a kind of traveling Harlem Globetrotters experience.

They're just trying to ruin the entire sport all to satisfy the whims of some power-hungry billionaires who own the elites. UEFA's Swiss Model proposal isn't good either, it's another dumpster fire designed to screw over the "small" teams.

Just want to point out that discussion about the Swiss Model vs the current model is 100% on topic if you want to go into more detail about it.