NATION

PASSWORD

What can we (normal people) do about global oppression?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Sungoldy-China
Diplomat
 
Posts: 538
Founded: Aug 15, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Sungoldy-China » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:03 pm

Death is the best way

There will be no oppression if there is no one to oppress.
every religious idea and every idea of God is unutterable vileness ... of the most dangerous kind, 'contagion' of the most abominable kind
"every religious idea and every idea of God is unutterable vileness ... of the most dangerous kind, 'contagion' of the most abominable kind. Millions of sins, filthy deeds, acts of violence and physical contagions ... are far less dangerous than the subtle, spiritual idea of God decked out in the smartest ideological costumes ..."

User avatar
Cisairse
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10935
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cisairse » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:07 pm

we can rise up and conquest the bourgeois, ending the system of commodity production and surplus-value theft which allows injustice to continue
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

I officially endorse Fivey Fox for president of the United States.

User avatar
Mercatus
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1232
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercatus » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:14 am

Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:
Mercatus wrote:
If people decide to fuck with other people and violate non-aggression, you can expect a justified violent reaction should another body not take action. Some state functions are replaced by corporations, but not to the extent of legislating, any rules of which would be unenforceable because of the freedom of people to ignore everything but the NAP. Also, with the way Ancapism is intended to be brought about, sudden dissolution of the state simply isn’t part of the equation. The idea is educating enough people about the realities of what is happening in a statist world, and gradually higher percentages of people will regard the state as illegitimate by not paying taxes, not abiding by arbitrary laws, etc. and the state withers away and dies, along with any state benefits to corporations, which themselves may be staffed by those who recognize the state as criminal. Admittedly, bringing about such a liberation would possibly be the longest and most difficult journey of any idea, but the key is fixing education to not foster state worship, itself an extremely difficult task. However, it was a long and difficult road to the first democracies, which I regard as a step in the process of granting freedom to people, but it is not the solution. Ancapism would rise from maintaining a moral high ground and spreading the ideology to the masses, not through violent revolution like in other anarchist ideologies or just most other non-democratic ideologies in general.


You sound like a utopian socialist: you have a rose-tinted model of revolution. Also, even today, the state operates on coercion. You don't like it and think its illegitimate? It doesn't care. A corporation doesn't care if you don't like it replicating the functions of the state. Rights are only as good as whoever enforces them and in the individualist anarchist systems without some sort of cooperative structure, they won't last against the corporate onslaught. The corporations make the most profit when they've installed themselves as the state.

Also, anarcho-syndicalism does not support a violent revolution; instead, it calls for the general strike to overturn capitalism.


I am not a socialist. I am a capitalist in every way. The point isn’t to undo the existence of corporations, but in a society where the only law is the NAP, it becomes pretty hard to assume state-like control. The state owns all land within its borders, even if people are permitted to live on property they call their own, they can only do so because the state lets them. Because the state has a monopoly on land, when it becomes nonexistent, corporations would have to buy all of the land to take control. Any land they acquire would have to be sold to them by a current owner, and a military-like takeover of, say, the entire mainland US, is probably well out of reach for corporations. Prior to the dissolution of the state, more and more assets will have been privatized because they couldn’t be funded as more and more refuse to pay taxes. Police, courts, public transport, education, and other state enterprises would be in the hands of businesses who sell their service to the population for profit. To assume control, corporations need to buy all of these newly privatized services, but the truth is many of the biggest corporations don’t have a large number of employees capable of running those services. Former state-employed judges, cops, bus drivers, teachers and whatnot would go into business for themselves.
About Me: Far-Right high schooler from Texas disillusioned with the progressive path being taken by society and propagated by young people.
Political Ideology: Right Wing Populism
Religion: Evangelical Baptist Christian

Pro: Gun Rights, Nuclear Family, Protectionist Economics, Capitalism, Israel, Border Wall, Fossil Fuels, Nuclear Energy, Traditional Social Values.
Anti: Communism, Socialism, BLM, LGBTQ Rights, Environmentalism, Affirmative Action, Globalism, Corporatism, Universalism, New Age Spirituality.

User avatar
Caleonia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1759
Founded: Mar 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Caleonia » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:49 am

Mercatus wrote:
Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:
You sound like a utopian socialist: you have a rose-tinted model of revolution. Also, even today, the state operates on coercion. You don't like it and think its illegitimate? It doesn't care. A corporation doesn't care if you don't like it replicating the functions of the state. Rights are only as good as whoever enforces them and in the individualist anarchist systems without some sort of cooperative structure, they won't last against the corporate onslaught. The corporations make the most profit when they've installed themselves as the state.

Also, anarcho-syndicalism does not support a violent revolution; instead, it calls for the general strike to overturn capitalism.


I am not a socialist. I am a capitalist in every way. The point isn’t to undo the existence of corporations, but in a society where the only law is the NAP, it becomes pretty hard to assume state-like control. The state owns all land within its borders, even if people are permitted to live on property they call their own, they can only do so because the state lets them. Because the state has a monopoly on land, when it becomes nonexistent, corporations would have to buy all of the land to take control. Any land they acquire would have to be sold to them by a current owner, and a military-like takeover of, say, the entire mainland US, is probably well out of reach for corporations. Prior to the dissolution of the state, more and more assets will have been privatized because they couldn’t be funded as more and more refuse to pay taxes. Police, courts, public transport, education, and other state enterprises would be in the hands of businesses who sell their service to the population for profit. To assume control, corporations need to buy all of these newly privatized services, but the truth is many of the biggest corporations don’t have a large number of employees capable of running those services. Former state-employed judges, cops, bus drivers, teachers and whatnot would go into business for themselves.

I’m sorry, what? I’m not even sure corporations would even want to do what you’re proposing as a hypothetical situation.
Caleon | Grünkohlland
The land of progress, the first society of speed.
MT/PMT (Cyberprep in 2035) | National Day: September 3 | Refer to this for policies | More than a “funny car nation”, and pays no attention to F1 | Hatsunia and I are NOT related, I just exist in his universe due to us sharing the same region.
Overview | Caleon Pro Baseball

User avatar
Caleonia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1759
Founded: Mar 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Caleonia » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:53 am

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Caleonia wrote:Do you really think the American people would actually trust their government managing the entire economy of a multiethnic nation that gets its grimy little hands into just about anything in the world?

No. But I'm not asking to abolish the free market and have centralised government control of the economy, am I?

Capitalism and free markets are not the same thing. Socialism is not the same thing as a state-run economy.

Edit: If you don't trust the US government to manage the economy, maybe you also shouldn't trust for profit corporations to do so, yet people seem to have no problem with giving Unilever total control of the food supply.

They... don’t? Am I just being stupid or something? Maybe you have a point I agree with and I just don’t understand it because it’s not how it works in my neck of the woods or something.
Caleon | Grünkohlland
The land of progress, the first society of speed.
MT/PMT (Cyberprep in 2035) | National Day: September 3 | Refer to this for policies | More than a “funny car nation”, and pays no attention to F1 | Hatsunia and I are NOT related, I just exist in his universe due to us sharing the same region.
Overview | Caleon Pro Baseball

User avatar
Conservative Republic Of Huang
Minister
 
Posts: 2570
Founded: Jul 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 am

Mercatus wrote:
Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:
You sound like a utopian socialist: you have a rose-tinted model of revolution. Also, even today, the state operates on coercion. You don't like it and think its illegitimate? It doesn't care. A corporation doesn't care if you don't like it replicating the functions of the state. Rights are only as good as whoever enforces them and in the individualist anarchist systems without some sort of cooperative structure, they won't last against the corporate onslaught. The corporations make the most profit when they've installed themselves as the state.

Also, anarcho-syndicalism does not support a violent revolution; instead, it calls for the general strike to overturn capitalism.


I am not a socialist. I am a capitalist in every way. The point isn’t to undo the existence of corporations, but in a society where the only law is the NAP, it becomes pretty hard to assume state-like control. The state owns all land within its borders, even if people are permitted to live on property they call their own, they can only do so because the state lets them. Because the state has a monopoly on land, when it becomes nonexistent, corporations would have to buy all of the land to take control. Any land they acquire would have to be sold to them by a current owner, and a military-like takeover of, say, the entire mainland US, is probably well out of reach for corporations. Prior to the dissolution of the state, more and more assets will have been privatized because they couldn’t be funded as more and more refuse to pay taxes. Police, courts, public transport, education, and other state enterprises would be in the hands of businesses who sell their service to the population for profit. To assume control, corporations need to buy all of these newly privatized services, but the truth is many of the biggest corporations don’t have a large number of employees capable of running those services. Former state-employed judges, cops, bus drivers, teachers and whatnot would go into business for themselves.

1. I mean you are like an utopian socialist insomuch that your envisioned revolution is overly idealistic.
2. You present a dichotomy between a single corporation taking over the entire US and everyone living in ancap fantasy land. More likely is the US splits into many many smaller corporate states. As a corporation with so much power, I have no incentive to use the market. It is so much easier to just use violence to take over property and compel people to work for me.
Last edited by Conservative Republic Of Huang on Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Direct democracy, e-democracy, parliamentary sovereignty, state secularism, non-violent direct action (striking), police reform, syndicalism, democratic workplace management
Anti: Most types of representative democracy, ultra-nationalism, imperialism, autocratic workplace management, the state

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say syndicalism now, syndicalism tomorrow, syndicalism forever."
not conservative or a republic
Transparency

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17203
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:51 am

start a nuclear war in order to signal the space trotskyists
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 63226
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:59 am

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Caleonia wrote:Do you really think the American people would actually trust their government managing the entire economy of a multiethnic nation that gets its grimy little hands into just about anything in the world?

No. But I'm not asking to abolish the free market and have centralised government control of the economy, am I?

Capitalism and free markets are not the same thing. Socialism is not the same thing as a state-run economy.

Edit: If you don't trust the US government to manage the economy, maybe you also shouldn't trust for profit corporations to do so, yet people seem to have no problem with giving Unilever total control of the food supply.


To be fair, Unilever and the dutch government are the same.

Or at least, Rutte is :lol:
The Blaatschapen should resign

User avatar
Opiachus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 564
Founded: Jul 09, 2010
Capitalizt

Postby Opiachus » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:58 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Well for one thing, we could learn from SJWs. SJWs some how have a huge voice but waste it on trying to solve imaginary problems, rather than solving actual problems. We need to learn how they manage to change everything

That is precisely why they are able to change everything. Since the problems are imaginary, the costs of the solutions for stakeholders are quite low, so no institution puts up a big fight to oppose them. It does not cost anything for a company to virtue-signal by making its logo have a rainbow background, so companies do it, and it makes it seem like the SJWs have had a great effect. It's the equivalent of making your life hard unless you change your favourite colour- you will do it eventually, because it's not even an actual problem. What makes a problem an actual problem is the high cost of potential solutions, because if that isn't the case, it would have been solved a long time ago.

Previous

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ancientania, Baidu [Spider], Cerespasia, Elejamie, Hidrandia, Juristonia, Likhinia, Republics of the Solar Union, Stratonesia

Advertisement

Remove ads