Treatment of Uyghurs in China

[Warriors of Truth]

That seems about right. I just want leftists to return to their libertarian, anti-authoritarian roots.

"Leftists" are, by definition, authoritarian.

YES!

american and european leftism, progressivism, is the biggest threat to human civilization since the nazis and the USSR, maybe even bigger

[Insaanistan]

"Leftists" are, by definition, authoritarian.

YES!

american and european leftism, progressivism, is the biggest threat to human civilization since the nazis and the USSR, maybe even bigger

You... you think the American and European lefts are more threatening than actual terrorism?

[Islamic Holy Sites]

"Leftists" are, by definition, authoritarian.

YES!

american and european leftism, progressivism, is the biggest threat to human civilization since the nazis and the USSR, maybe even bigger

Here's my reaction:
Scandinavia is sure being destroyed by this leftism.

[Post War America]

YES!

american and european leftism, progressivism, is the biggest threat to human civilization since the nazis and the USSR, maybe even bigger

Here's my reaction:
Scandinavia is sure being destroyed by this leftism.

I mean, obviously the are for allowing those uppity darkies into their borders en masse, and feminizing their men with increased soy intake. /s

[-Astoria-]

Here's my reaction:
Scandinavia is sure being destroyed by this leftism.

I mean, obviously the are for allowing those uppity darkies into their borders en masse, and feminizing their men with increased soy intake. /s

Mind you, people actually believe that.

[The Sovereign Realist State]

between 2017 and 2019, the population growth rate of Xinjiang has declined from 11.4 per 1,000 in 2017 to 3.69 per 1,000 (a fall of 67%), with the birth-rate halving from 15.88 per 1000 people to 8.14. For comparison, here is the plummeting birth-rate of Xinjiang compared to the considerably more stable rates of other areas:

(Image)

This decline is especially dramatic where the Uyghurs are more concentrated, such as Hotan Prefecture, where they comprise 97% of the population and where the birth-rate fell from 20.0 per 1000 people to 8.58 per 1000 people. The effects, in Hotan prefecture and Qira County (where 98.1% of the population were Uyghur as of 2015) can be seen here:

(Image)

Yes and that rate has been decreasing for even longer. As indeed it has in many other places of China, without concentration camps.
Again, it seems to me that if the intention of the CCP was to whipe out the Uyghur pop, they would simply institute a 1 child policy.

Furthermore, your question is moot. (...) genocide can be practised against a group in whole or in part and entails any of the acts. We don't classify the Holocaust as "not genocide" because there were approximately 9.5 million Jewish people in Europe and the Holocaust did not kill them all.

1. I do not necessarily agree with UN definitions. The UN is highly politicised and is not the absolute authority on anything
2. The Holocaust was definitionally genocide because it was the intention of the III Reich to eradicate the Jews.
I have yet to see any CCP policy that tries to do the same, be it in Xinjiang or elsewhere. Much to the contrary, Uyghurs have increased their numbers under CCP rule. That is the opposite of genocide.

As underlined in my original -- which I'll bring back, as you chopped out the UN (including the link)... funny that

I summarized the quote by including YOUR points and excluded quoted documents. It is called having a criterion, as I am replying to YOU and not the doc.

The fact that you feel the need to implicitly ascribe bad-faith to the person you're debating, on the other hand, indicates that you are not comfortable with the validity of your points and that you feel you need to resort to ad hominem to try to gain moral superiority.

...You haven't.

[Sungoldy-China]

Only Children love to distinguish between right and wrong,
adults only look at the pros and cons.

[Neanderthaland]

Only Children love to distinguish between right and wrong,
adults only look at the pros and cons.

Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

[New haven america]

Here's my reaction:
Scandinavia is sure being destroyed by this leftism.

I mean, obviously the are for allowing those uppity darkies into their borders en masse, and feminizing their men with increased soy intake. /s

They actually don't eat much soy in Northern Europe.

Their diets are mostly composed of meat dishes and various grains.

[The Free Joy State]

between 2017 and 2019, the population growth rate of Xinjiang has declined from 11.4 per 1,000 in 2017 to 3.69 per 1,000 (a fall of 67%), with the birth-rate halving from 15.88 per 1000 people to 8.14. For comparison, here is the plummeting birth-rate of Xinjiang compared to the considerably more stable rates of other areas:

(Image)

This decline is especially dramatic where the Uyghurs are more concentrated, such as Hotan Prefecture, where they comprise 97% of the population and where the birth-rate fell from 20.0 per 1000 people to 8.58 per 1000 people. The effects, in Hotan prefecture and Qira County (where 98.1% of the population were Uyghur as of 2015) can be seen here:

(Image)

Yes and that rate has been decreasing for even longer. As indeed it has in many other places of China, without concentration camps.

Perhaps you would like to back that up with some statistics?

Again, it seems to me that if the intention of the CCP was to whipe out the Uyghur pop, they would simply institute a 1 child policy.

Well, enforced sterilisations, enforced abortions, forced hysterectomies and the forced use of contraception can have the same effect, all of which the CCP are doing.

Furthermore, your question is moot. (...) genocide can be practised against a group in whole or in part and entails any of the acts. We don't classify the Holocaust as "not genocide" because there were approximately 9.5 million Jewish people in Europe and the Holocaust did not kill them all.

1. I do not necessarily agree with UN definitions. The UN is highly politicised and is not the absolute authority on anything

They do have a pretty good grasp on the concept of genocide, though. They were founded to deal with it, after the Holocaust.

2. The Holocaust was definitionally genocide because it was the intention of the III Reich to eradicate the Jews.
I have yet to see any CCP policy that tries to do the same, be it in Xinjiang or elsewhere. Much to the contrary, Uyghurs have increased their numbers under CCP rule. That is the opposite of genocide.

Long-term, perhaps numbers increased (again, sources please). But, since Xi's hardline policies, the statistics show a sharp decline.

Again, your argument is similar to a Nazi apologist claiming that, the Jewish population of Europe in 1939 is somehow "proof" that genocide was not being practised as the Nazis were already in power (when it is known the extermination camps were not running until late 1941).

As underlined in my original -- which I'll bring back, as you chopped out the UN (including the link)... funny that

I summarized the quote by including YOUR points and excluded quoted documents. It is called having a criterion, as I am replying to YOU and not the doc.

The fact that you feel the need to implicitly ascribe bad-faith to the person you're debating, on the other hand, indicates that you are not comfortable with the validity of your points and that you feel you need to resort to ad hominem to try to gain moral superiority.

...You haven't.

The points and doc supported each other (with the number scheme linking the specific points highlighting the genocidal actions of the CCP regime in relation to the Uyghurs), as said best by the international authority who try those who commit crimes against humanity (and so who does -- despite your stated objection -- have the best insight into genocide).

Pointing to actions that you actually did is neither bad faith nor an ad hominem (that would be an attack on you personally); nor is it a sign I am uncomfortable with my points (believe me, I can talk about the scummy behaviour of the CCP government all day). However, the fact that you removed the document (twice), and even the link to the UN (including the word it was imbedded in) -- which shows the government to be committing genocidal actions -- suggests that you do not wish to see them being associated with an immoral action such as genocide.

No government should ever be so adored that a person cannot abide hearing bad things about them, preferring to look away from their fellow, suffering man because to look back would mean to admit that the government is doing something shitty.

[Greater Somoiland]

Completely unjustified. I just cannot take any counter argument literally when China can do this and get away with it

[NeoPacy]

A propaganda tool of US and West to justify aggression against China. Not a genocide. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)