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Rise of Domestic US terrorism fueled mostly by far right

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Vivolkha
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vivolkha » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:30 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
Vivolkha wrote:"What some would say" is not a valid argument. If some people say that the Earth is flat, will you believe them? And even with weapons, the state maintains a clear superiority on the use of force through the police and the military.

But I understand it in the context of America's cultural mistrust of authority and anti-statism. Realistically gun control can't be implemented in America, but it has to be recognized that the lack of it is one reason behind its violence epidemic.

Perhaps not but they still have the right to believe and say the earth is flat if it suits them. My own beliefs don't allow me to infringe upon the rights of others, and that includes the rights guaranteed to us by The Second Amendment-which the military and police swear to defend, not the government. Considering you can be punished with death for violating the UCMJ and enforcing a 2nd Amendment removal would be a crime in that you're breaking your oath, I don't see the military enforcing such a ban. That's not to mention how many servicemen themselves own firearms and more than likely don't want to turn them over in what would clearly be an unconstitutional act.

Violence epidemic? Humans are naturally violent and that's a fact, just look at human history. In nations like France and Britain you just get mass stabbings and vehicle ramming's instead of shootings. Show me a nation with no violence and I'll be impressed. The issue with the US today isn't violence, it's just perceived that way because the media decides to cover it and blow it out of proportion.

The murder rate in the US is 4.13 times higher than in France and the UK. The US accounts for half of all far-right terrorism incidents and deaths.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:30 am

You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:34 am

Picairn wrote:Anyone that thinks laws addressing civil rights, racial justice, economic inequality, climate change, etc. are "radical" and stormed the Capitol as a reaction needs to reevaluate their political positions.


It isn't considered universially desirable in terms of policies in that it is most definitely political in nature. There are millions of Trumpists who broadly speaking, don't care any about the plight of illegal immigrants or victims of racism and etc. because surprise- they don't stand for those things. Their politics is the opposite where they believe that their biases are more correct and that illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to remain in the US among other things.

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Kilobugya
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:36 am

New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.


Hey, what did French Guyana did to you to deserve such a terrible fate ? Being in a semi-colonial state and having Bolsonaro's Covid variants factory next door are already bad enough.
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Vivolkha
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vivolkha » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:38 am

New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.

Entertaining, for sure, but believe me you really don't want to try this out.
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Whitemore
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Postby Whitemore » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:39 am

New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.


How about Guam or the Virgin Islands?
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Alien Overlord
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Alien Overlord » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:39 am

Picairn wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) (1993) - I don't know why our Supreme Court didn't strike this down as unconstitutional, but it clearly was
Affordable Care Act (ACA) (2010)
Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) (2012)
DREAM Act (Technically hasn't passed, but the Democrats keep pushing for it so it's relevant)

Executive Order 13985 (Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through the Federal Government)
Executive Order 13991 (Protecting the Federal Workforce and Requiring Mask-Wearing)
Executive Order 14006 (Reforming Our Incarceration System to Eliminate the Use of Privately Operated Criminal Detention Facilities)
Executive Order 14011 (Executive Order on the Establishment of Interagency Task Force on the Reunification of Families)
Executive Order 14010 (Executive Order on Restoring Faith in Our Legal Immigration Systems and Strengthening Integration and Inclusion Efforts for New Americans)
Executive Order 14012 (Executive Order on Rebuilding and Enhancing Programs to Resettle Refugees and Planning for the Impact of Climate Change on Migration)
Executive Order 14009 (Executive Order on Strengthening Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act)

Just to name a few.

Hold up, how is providing healthcare to more people, allowing illegal immigrants to achieve citizenship, mandating masks in the federal workforce amidst a pandemic, advancing racial justice, ending support for private prisons, reuniting migrant families, resettling refugees in proper places, combating climate change radical? These measures were all targeted towards civil rights, racial and economic justice, preserving a future for humanity to live, etc. Who in their right mind would say these bills and EOs are radical, if not for fascists and authoritarian tyrants?

Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act is still highly contentious in politics today, enough so that President Donald Trump worked to dismantle it and kill it. Illegal aliens are not citizens and are oftentimes undocumented-which may not sound like a problem until you realize that the left has advocated for and succeeded in allowing them to vote in federal elections. This means that a person with absolutely no understanding of English or American culture or laws is still able to vote for the highest office in the nation when they have no real ties to the country or it's well being given how many are citizens of other countries.

Regarding racial justice, it's contentious because it permits actions like rioting or racism on the basis of skin color. It's been joked and discussed about by politicians, actors, political commentators and more that African Americans can't be racist because their ancestors were enslaved hundreds of years ago. This viewpoint isn't uncommon and has led to conflict many times but race isn't a simple issue in America, it's very complex because of a long history. I'm not a subject matter expert on it, nor do I have enough knowledge personally to debate it reasonably, but I do have enough knowledge to know that it isn't a minority issue, that it's something that a significant portion of the population is split over given the amount of protests, riots and counter protests over racial issues. So whether most of the country is fascist or whatever, those acts are radical and DO NOT help heal the wounds and cracks in the nation.
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Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:40 am

Kilobugya wrote:
New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.


Hey, what did French Guyana did to you to deserve such a terrible fate ? Being in a semi-colonial state and having Bolsonaro's Covid variants factory next door are already bad enough.

The people in French Guiana already there wouldn't have to deal with them, they'd be offered the chance to move to anywhere else in France or America if they want.

Logistically... It's the only area of land in the world I can find that has a decent land area, resource possibilities, and space for a decent sized population, that isn't independent. Logistics have simply failed French Guiana in this regard.
Last edited by New haven america on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:40 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
Picairn wrote:Hold up, how is providing healthcare to more people, allowing illegal immigrants to achieve citizenship, mandating masks in the federal workforce amidst a pandemic, advancing racial justice, ending support for private prisons, reuniting migrant families, resettling refugees in proper places, combating climate change radical? These measures were all targeted towards civil rights, racial and economic justice, preserving a future for humanity to live, etc. Who in their right mind would say these bills and EOs are radical, if not for fascists and authoritarian tyrants?

Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act is still highly contentious in politics today

This is an out of character forum.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:41 am

Vivolkha wrote:
New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.

Entertaining, for sure, but believe me you really don't want to try this out.

But believe me, I really, really do.

Come on guys, put your money where your mouth is, show me how hard right policies will make a nation great.

Whitemore wrote:
New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.


How about Guam or the Virgin Islands?

Too little land and resources for the population that could possible move there.
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Whitemore
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Postby Whitemore » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:43 am

New haven america wrote:
Vivolkha wrote:Entertaining, for sure, but believe me you really don't want to try this out.

But believe me, I really, really do.

Come on guys, put your money where your mouth is, show me how hard right policies will make a nation great.

Whitemore wrote:
How about Guam or the Virgin Islands?

Too little land and resources for the population that could possible move there.


If we're talking about the Far Right and Neo-Nazi's I don't care about their access to resources, we're here to see if they could survive with what they have. Because if they claim to have the superior beliefs then they should have no issue starting with little to nothing.
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Alien Overlord
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Alien Overlord » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:43 am

New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.

To be fair socialists claim that their system helps the common man, but you go a few countries to the left of French Guiana and you have Venezuela, a nation that was capitalist and became socialist and then fell into one of the worst economic crisis in it's history. Which is actually a common theme with left wing governments given the state of remaining socialist governments of which there are less than ten worldwide.
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Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships


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Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:45 am

As the balance of power shifts back and forth you'll always have groups that lack the wherewithal to properly process this and lash out in violent protest.

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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:45 am

The fact that the Riots of Last summer and into this year aren't domestic terrorism is beyond me. The fact of the matter is there are more conservatives than liberals in general. Most of these people are radicalized out of desperation. All forms of Extremism start because people think they are out of options. When the whole of society is calling any group Racist or Stupid or anything it tends to make people feel bad especially when they know it isn't true.

Everyone can see the Left controls Politics, Education, and Culture. Conservatives can't get control of the politics because it's upstream from culture. You can't change culture without control of Education. So no matter what as things are currently American Conservatism is dead everywhere mainstream except the supreme court which they are attempting to pack.

Besides politics have little to do with violence. People from all sides do evil and we should denounce it fully on all sides and not just when it's the other side doing evil.
To curb violence we just need to Deradicalize people and not dehumanize our political opinions. Conservative Ideas are just as valid as Left ideas.

The problem is that the Conservatives have stayed pretty consistent with there beliefs whall the Left has gone further left making the conservatives seem extreme when they've been saying the same thing for decades. This is most clearly seen by the growing number of Democrats who switch parties because the Democratic Party no longer represents what they believe. The Republican Party is basically a Coalition of Conservatives, Nationalists, and Classical Liberals.

People think Republicans are obstructionists because they refuse to compromise when the Democrats try to drag us further left. The reason this happens is because of the 2 party system. The United States needs in the very least 5 parties (Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, Socialist, Moderate) The Socialists are basically the loudest of the Democrats who in all honesty aren't Democrats (AOC/ Bernie Sanders, ETC). The Moderates would be most Americans. All the others would stay basically the same.

Long Story short we need to Deradicalize and Humanize people to end Violence as well as end the 2 party system.
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Greater Miami Shores
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:45 am

Vivolkha wrote:More detailed answers to OP's questions:

1. Why is the right so much more violent than the left?
There are several reasons for this. The main one, as I explained in a previous post, is higher support. This translates in higher membership in right-wing terrorist groups, more funding, and in general more capacity to carry out attacks. It translates in other ways too, with white supremacist speech having more visibility than the far-left (obvious example: Trump) and their attacks being condoned more.

Another, significantly less important reason is ideology. Right-wing groups tend to be more supportive of Second Amendment rights (and most terrorist attacks in America are carried out with firearms) and to attack people over corporations and public property.

2. What can be done to reduce the instances of right-wing terrorism?
Generally speaking, the same measures can be applied to far-right and far-left terrorism. The two main reasons fueling them are, in my opinion, the extreme political polarization in the US and the ease of access to firearms.

To address political polarization, the US needs to improve the quality of its local elections and destroy gerrymandering. The drawing of electoral districts should be left to independent commissions, never to state legislatures. Another fundamental flaw is the first-past-the-post electoral system in America, entrenching two-party, "black or white" rule.

The ease of access to firearms can be reduced by introducing increased gun control. Honestly the Second Amendment entirely needs to go, but that would be hugely unpopular in America.

Neither of these reforms are easy to implement in any way, because of their unpopularity, lack of political will, or both. Thus, I expect America's terrorism problem to grow worse in the future.

Just to make sure which kinds of right wingers are you talking about? Can you be more specific about the wingers you are talking about. Are you talking about the ALT Right? Are you talking about Republicans? Are you talking about all of the above?
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:48 am

Christian Confederation wrote:The fact that the Riots of Last summer and into this year aren't domestic terrorism is beyond me. The fact of the matter is there are more conservatives than liberals in general. Most of these people are radicalized out of desperation. All forms of Extremism start because people think they are out of options. When the whole of society is calling any group Racist or Stupid or anything it tends to make people feel bad especially when they know it isn't true.

Everyone can see the Left controls Politics, Education, and Culture. Conservatives can't get control of the politics because it's upstream from culture. You can't change culture without control of Education. So no matter what as things are currently American Conservatism is dead everywhere mainstream except the supreme court which they are attempting to pack.

Besides politics have little to do with violence. People from all sides do evil and we should denounce it fully on all sides and not just when it's the other side doing evil.
To curb violence we just need to Deradicalize people and not dehumanize our political opinions. Conservative Ideas are just as valid as Left ideas.

The problem is that the Conservatives have stayed pretty consistent with there beliefs whall the Left has gone further left making the conservatives seem extreme when they've been saying the same thing for decades. This is most clearly seen by the growing number of Democrats who switch parties because the Democratic Party no longer represents what they believe. The Republican Party is basically a Coalition of Conservatives, Nationalists, and Classical Liberals.

People think Republicans are obstructionists because they refuse to compromise when the Democrats try to drag us further left. The reason this happens is because of the 2 party system. The United States needs in the very least 5 parties (Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, Socialist, Moderate) The Socialists are basically the loudest of the Democrats who in all honesty aren't Democrats (AOC/ Bernie Sanders, ETC). The Moderates would be most Americans. All the others would stay basically the same.

Long Story short we need to Deradicalize and Humanize people to end Violence as well as end the 2 party system.


Remember, it's terrorism to fight back when the police start brutalising you. -nod-
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:48 am

Whitemore wrote:
New haven america wrote:But believe me, I really, really do.

Come on guys, put your money where your mouth is, show me how hard right policies will make a nation great.


Too little land and resources for the population that could possible move there.


If we're talking about the Far Right and Neo-Nazi's I don't care about their access to resources, we're here to see if they could survive with what they have. Because if they claim to have the superior beliefs then they should have no issue starting with little to nothing.

But you see, then when the experiment inevitably fails (Because it will), then they won't be able to pull the "You didn't give us enough to work with!" excuse.

They'd fail on their own.
Last edited by New haven america on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:49 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Vivolkha wrote:More detailed answers to OP's questions:

1. Why is the right so much more violent than the left?
There are several reasons for this. The main one, as I explained in a previous post, is higher support. This translates in higher membership in right-wing terrorist groups, more funding, and in general more capacity to carry out attacks. It translates in other ways too, with white supremacist speech having more visibility than the far-left (obvious example: Trump) and their attacks being condoned more.

Another, significantly less important reason is ideology. Right-wing groups tend to be more supportive of Second Amendment rights (and most terrorist attacks in America are carried out with firearms) and to attack people over corporations and public property.

2. What can be done to reduce the instances of right-wing terrorism?
Generally speaking, the same measures can be applied to far-right and far-left terrorism. The two main reasons fueling them are, in my opinion, the extreme political polarization in the US and the ease of access to firearms.

To address political polarization, the US needs to improve the quality of its local elections and destroy gerrymandering. The drawing of electoral districts should be left to independent commissions, never to state legislatures. Another fundamental flaw is the first-past-the-post electoral system in America, entrenching two-party, "black or white" rule.

The ease of access to firearms can be reduced by introducing increased gun control. Honestly the Second Amendment entirely needs to go, but that would be hugely unpopular in America.

Neither of these reforms are easy to implement in any way, because of their unpopularity, lack of political will, or both. Thus, I expect America's terrorism problem to grow worse in the future.

Just to make sure which kinds of right wingers are you talking about? Can you be more specific about the wingers you are talking about. Are you talking about the ALT Right? Are you talking about Republicans? Are you talking about all of the above?

He seems to be talking about a subset of the right wing. No clear specification on what classification, because I assume the subset to which the statements apply are too heterogenous to label them with any specific subclass of right winger.
Last edited by Esternial on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:49 am

Christian Confederation wrote:Besides politics have little to do with violence.

bro what
Last edited by Odreria on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Whitemore
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Postby Whitemore » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:49 am

New haven america wrote:
Whitemore wrote:
If we're talking about the Far Right and Neo-Nazi's I don't care about their access to resources, we're here to see if they could survive with what they have. Because if they claim to have the superior beliefs then they should have no issue starting with little to nothing.

But you see, then when the experiment inevitably fails (Because it will), then they won't be able to pull the "You didn't give us enough to work with!" excuse.


That's the thing, I know it will fail. I just want them outside of the American Mainland.
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Kilobugya
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:50 am

Alien Overlord wrote:To be fair socialists claim that their system helps the common man, but you go a few countries to the left of French Guiana and you have Venezuela, a nation that was capitalist and became socialist and then fell into one of the worst economic crisis in it's history. Which is actually a common theme with left wing governments given the state of remaining socialist governments of which there are less than ten worldwide.


That's not really the subject of the thread, but Venezuela actually thrived for most of the Chávez presidency. The current crisis is more the effect of a drastic blockade imposed by USA and EU, combined with a strike of bad luck (world-wide crashing oil prices and severe drought hitting in 2013).

And that applies to most of Latin Amercia, Bolivia was very prosperous under Evo Morales until the coup, Ecuador under Correa before Moreno's betrayal, Brazil under Lula/Dilma before the parliamentary coup, ... the disaster in Latin America are the right-wing policies, like the ones that completely destroyed Ecuador during the 90s or how Macri destroyed Argentina, Bolsonaro destroyed Brazil, ...
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:50 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Neu California wrote:1. Why is the right so much more violent than the left?


There are both general and specific reasons for that.

The left, usually, only resorts to violence to defend itself, or against violent oppression. Ideologically, philosophically, violence is alien to the leftist way of thinking. There are have been some extreme left violent groups in the world, but nowhere near the level of KKK or Nazi/Fascists in the 1920s or 1930s. Sure there are revolutions and guerillas, but those always happen against dictatorial regimes (which includes Colombia, IMHO, but that's another topic).


Dude. Bringing FARC apologia in here? Seriously?
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Alien Overlord
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Alien Overlord » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:52 am

Christian Confederation wrote:To curb violence we just need to Deradicalize people and not dehumanize our political opinions. Conservative Ideas are just as valid as Left ideas...

Careful now, an idea like that nowadays can get you lynched. Jokes aside though you make a fair point and i actually completely agree with you. I think that American Conservatism has pretty much stayed consistent whereas the left has become more radical, forcing conservatives to radicalize. One of the big pulls for many voters this past election with Biden was his message that he would heal divides in the nation-a promise he has failed spectacularly to live up to by reversing Donald Trumps policies, which were themselves a reaction to left wing pushes. Biden is refusing to deradicalize the nation and is pushing us further towards a metaphorical cliff where reactions like we saw at the capital last year may happen again to populations that feel they have no other options.
Last edited by Alien Overlord on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Walkerfort wrote:so...




Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships


butterfly effect when give a butterfly cocaine


Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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New haven america
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:53 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
New haven america wrote:You know, I floated the idea around before, I can do it gain.

Let the US buy French Guiana, relocate the far right winger over there, and see what happens.

They claim the superior political ideology, well I wanna see it in action. Make Former French Guiana the greatest country in history, I dare you.

To be fair socialists claim that their system helps the common man, but you go a few countries to the left of French Guiana and you have Venezuela, a nation that was capitalist and became socialist and then fell into one of the worst economic crisis in it's history. Which is actually a common theme with left wing governments given the state of remaining socialist governments of which there are less than ten worldwide.

Venezuela's in the shitter because of US oil embargoes.

Maduro's no more dictatorial than any of the other Central and South American dictators the US installed during The Cold War btw. (Guaido is the legitimate pres. though)
Last edited by New haven america on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

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Odreria
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Founded: Jun 15, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Odreria » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:54 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Neu California wrote:1. Why is the right so much more violent than the left?


There are both general and specific reasons for that.

The left, usually, only resorts to violence to defend itself, or against violent oppression. Ideologically, philosophically, violence is alien to the leftist way of thinking. There are have been some extreme left violent groups in the world, but nowhere near the level of KKK or Nazi/Fascists in the 1920s or 1930s.

Yeah, the other day I was reading some dumbass's blog saying that the right never uses political terror because it believes in stability and order, and the reverse claim isn't any more accurate.
Last edited by Odreria on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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