Rise of Domestic US terrorism fueled mostly by far right

[CoraSpia]

I think largely you've missed the point here. Shouting about privilege doesn't actually help, it just distracts from the fact that each person in society faces a unique set of barriers when going through life, and that the various forms of privilege that are spoken about do not detract from the existence of other challenges.

I think you've missed the point where this is massively off-topic. The topic of the thread is literally terrorism in the USA, not privilege (I also never suggested that just shouting privilege any anyone is a good idea). If Gallo wants to take a quick summary which was obviously not going to be nuanced out of its intended context and fucking run with it because every thread must be about how oppressed men are then I'm not going to participate in further conversation with him in this thread or any other.

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

[Galloism]

I think you've missed the point where this is massively off-topic. The topic of the thread is literally terrorism in the USA, not privilege (I also never suggested that just shouting privilege any anyone is a good idea). If Gallo wants to take a quick summary which was obviously not going to be nuanced out of its intended context and fucking run with it because every thread must be about how oppressed men are then I'm not going to participate in further conversation with him in this thread or any other.

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

And this is the flip side of the coin - because amongst conservatives, the study also found that the privilege language increases their solidarity with white people.

IE, it makes them have more of an in-group bias in favor of white people.

Which might be one of many many factors leading to a greater degree of acceptance for terrorism. Because keep in mind, it's not just 1 person who carries out a terrorist act. Usually, there's multiple people around that person who saw the path to radicalization underway, and they did nothing.

[Dejado Atras]

I think you've missed the point where this is massively off-topic. The topic of the thread is literally terrorism in the USA, not privilege (I also never suggested that just shouting privilege any anyone is a good idea). If Gallo wants to take a quick summary which was obviously not going to be nuanced out of its intended context and fucking run with it because every thread must be about how oppressed men are then I'm not going to participate in further conversation with him in this thread or any other.

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

I can’t tell you how many people I know personally that are this all the way. Even pro-left wing individuals I know are deeply questioning the validity and purpose of screaming “privilege” at everything other than to seed division and just pour gasoline on the fire.

When a man is struggling with poverty/paying the bills and it’s said to to him that his struggles are invalid or over exaggerated because he’s a white man and he has all sorts of special privileges (usually in a mocking sense) it tends to make him angry and make him feel like he doesn’t matter.

Same with a successful white man who is sneered at or mocked as being “privileged” even if he worked his way up from the ground.

The finger wagging gets old and a lot more people than believed to be are getting sick of it. Hence why your having these tidal waves of far-rightism (Quanon, Proud Boys, etc.) in particular. Most people see CRT and the “privilege” rhetoric as far-left isms and as a result it’s driving many into the arms of both moderate and extreme right wing coalitions.

[CoraSpia]

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

And this is the flip side of the coin - because amongst conservatives, the study also found that the privilege language increases their solidarity with white people.

IE, it makes them have more of an in-group bias in favor of white people.

Which might be one of many many factors leading to a greater degree of acceptance for terrorism. Because keep in mind, it's not just 1 person who carries out a terrorist act. Usually, there's multiple people around that person who saw the path to radicalization underway, and they did nothing.

Exactly. For terrorism to start it requires at least a small group of people around the terrorist(s) who will be prepared to accept or justify to themselves what's going on. Actual lone wolf attacks, in which nobody has assisted the terrorist or should have seen warning signs much earlier are very rare.

[Vassenor]

Why does this discussion always come back to "no you don't understand it's the white people who are the real oppressed ones"?

Yeah, that's not what anyone is saying, but thanks for playing.

Try reading sometime instead of knee jerk reacting. It'll make your posts make more sense.

No, you're just complaining about how white people are always depicted negatively as though re-centering the discussion on white people will fix all the right-wing violence.

[Dejado Atras]

Yeah, that's not what anyone is saying, but thanks for playing.

Try reading sometime instead of knee jerk reacting. It'll make your posts make more sense.

No, you're just complaining about how white people are always depicted negatively as though re-centering the discussion on white people will fix all the right-wing violence.

Well the systemized extremist rhetoric from a certain direction aren’t helping fix things I can tell you.

[Vassenor]

No, you're just complaining about how white people are always depicted negatively as though re-centering the discussion on white people will fix all the right-wing violence.

Well the extremist rhetoric from a certain direction aren’t helping fix things I can tell you.

So instead we need to be coddling all those fragile rightists and protecting them from seeing things that conflict with their worldview.

[Galloism]

Yeah, that's not what anyone is saying, but thanks for playing.

Try reading sometime instead of knee jerk reacting. It'll make your posts make more sense.

No, you're just complaining about how white people are always depicted negatively as though re-centering the discussion on white people will fix all the right-wing violence.

No, I'm pointing out the privilege language has bad effects. Read what I said, not what you wish I had said.

The study says, quite clearly, that the white privilege rhetoric does nothing to help raise sympathy, awareness, etc of the plight of people of color. All it does is cause people to have less sympathy for poor white people and make them more blameworthy in their own poverty.

Why would anyone on the left endorse language that makes people have less sympathy for the poor and see them as more blameworthy in their poverty? It boggles the mind why you would be upset at someone pointing out how their actions lead to more oppression of the poor.

EDIT: I mean, I guess you could LIKE causing hatred and division. That's a possibility. But I don't think it is fair to impute that motive to you.

[Dakini]

I think you've missed the point where this is massively off-topic. The topic of the thread is literally terrorism in the USA, not privilege (I also never suggested that just shouting privilege any anyone is a good idea). If Gallo wants to take a quick summary which was obviously not going to be nuanced out of its intended context and fucking run with it because every thread must be about how oppressed men are then I'm not going to participate in further conversation with him in this thread or any other.

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

I do generally think that class privilege needs to be discussed more than it is and that poverty needs to be addressed.

That doesn't mean that we should ignore other forms of oppression and pretend that class is the only thing that matters because it clearly does not. People can also be affected by many types of oppression (e.g. a poor black trans woman has to deal with oppression based on her class, race and gender identity while a poor white disabled man has to deal with oppression based on his class and physical ability) and collectively, we need to work to remove all these types of oppression instead of ignoring some types of oppression and pretending they don't exist because it makes certain people uncomfortable.

[Ifreann]

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

I do generally think that class privilege needs to be discussed more than it is and that poverty needs to be addressed.

That doesn't mean that we should ignore other forms of oppression and pretend that class is the only thing that matters because it clearly does not. People can also be affected by many types of oppression (e.g. a poor black trans woman has to deal with oppression based on her class, race and gender identity while a poor white disabled man has to deal with oppression based on his class and physical ability) and collectively, we need to work to remove all these types of oppression instead of ignoring some types of oppression and pretending they don't exist because it makes certain people uncomfortable.

But when you explain it like that, it doesn't sound like something we can pretend is somehow driving people to the far right. Instead we should act like the concept of privilege begins and ends with a pink-haired feminists cyberbullying innocent white men until they shave their heads and get swastika tattoos.

[Galloism]

collectively, we need to work to remove all these types of oppression instead of ignoring some types of oppression and pretending they don't exist because it makes certain people uncomfortable.

And that's where the privilege language falls down. It does nothing to address these types of oppression - instead it only causes people to ignore other types of oppression when someone is in the "privileged" group along a certain line or axis.

The study showed this - everyone was aware of the class based discrimination Kevin (the subject of the example) received. But when they were told white people were privileged, and Kevin was white, it made them overlook his class oppression in favor of viewing him through his race privilege. IE, the privilege language helps gloss over other oppressions.

We should focus on discrimination and oppression, that is, the down side of the coin. If you want people to care about discrimination, you have to talk about discrimination. When you talk about privilege, it only serves the marginalize the group you're talking about and gloss over the types of discrimination they face either as part of that group or on other lines or axes.

[Dejado Atras]

Well the extremist rhetoric from a certain direction aren’t helping fix things I can tell you.

So instead we need to be coddling all those fragile rightists and protecting them from seeing things that conflict with their worldview.

Like we already do with even frailer leftists you mean?

[Dakini]

I do generally think that class privilege needs to be discussed more than it is and that poverty needs to be addressed.

That doesn't mean that we should ignore other forms of oppression and pretend that class is the only thing that matters because it clearly does not. People can also be affected by many types of oppression (e.g. a poor black trans woman has to deal with oppression based on her class, race and gender identity while a poor white disabled man has to deal with oppression based on his class and physical ability) and collectively, we need to work to remove all these types of oppression instead of ignoring some types of oppression and pretending they don't exist because it makes certain people uncomfortable.

But when you explain it like that, it doesn't sound like something we can pretend is somehow driving people to the far right. Instead we should act like the concept of privilege begins and ends with a pink-haired feminists cyberbullying innocent white men until they shave their heads and get swastika tattoos.

Yeah, the idea that dudes who are 100% not at all racist are turning into Nazis because someone suggests that the police should stop gunning own unarmed black dudes is pretty asinine.

The simple truth is that none of us are free until all of us are free.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

What happened in this thread just now? I came back and it's nothing but privilege this and that still.

[Ifreann]

What happened in this thread just now? I came back and it's nothing but privilege this and that still.

Some people seem to struggle to talk about how the American far right is a domestic terror threat without also talking shit about the left.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

What happened in this thread just now? I came back and it's nothing but privilege this and that still.

Some people seem to struggle to talk about how the American far right is a domestic terror threat without also talking shit about the left.

I dont even understand what white privilege has to do with it. It's like we're talking about Trump and someone brings up the time a friend got a shitty haircut.

[Galloism]

What happened in this thread just now? I came back and it's nothing but privilege this and that still.

This post started with the privilege language, then some folks objected on the basis of white guilt, then others decided to defend the language. I pointed out how it quite literally causes people to hate poor white people and blame them for being poor because they are white, thereby sowing hatred and division - with a study to back it. Then everyone got all mad because I pointed out the sacred cow has no clothes or something.

And uh... I guess I'm Hitler now.

[Ifreann]

Some people seem to struggle to talk about how the American far right is a domestic terror threat without also talking shit about the left.

I dont even understand what white privilege has to do with it. It's like we're talking about Trump and someone brings up the time a friend got a shitty haircut.

Something about some guy claiming to both be deliberately ignorant of what privilege and critical race theory are and also to have studied them in depth.

[Dejado Atras]

I dont even understand what white privilege has to do with it. It's like we're talking about Trump and someone brings up the time a friend got a shitty haircut.

Something about some guy claiming to both be deliberately ignorant of what privilege and critical race theory are and also to have studied them in depth.

In truth I’ve read enough about and observed them in practice enough to see them for what they are and began sarcastically remarking “yes, I will retain my ignorance”. In truth it could have ended there but Galloism (welcomely of course) engaged with the fanatic endorsers of these putrid theories and I think did a fine job of shining the light on what they are and what they cause. And now people are butthurt. They’ll live.

Now instead of weak attempts at condescension and several posts of the classic “why are we talking about this” (we lost, retreat!) let’s move on like others have suggested.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I think you've missed the point where this is massively off-topic. The topic of the thread is literally terrorism in the USA, not privilege (I also never suggested that just shouting privilege any anyone is a good idea). If Gallo wants to take a quick summary which was obviously not going to be nuanced out of its intended context and fucking run with it because every thread must be about how oppressed men are then I'm not going to participate in further conversation with him in this thread or any other.

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

Speaking as someone who is somewhere left wing and doesn't really use ' race or ethnic privilege' as a talking point I don't really get it. Wouldn't it just be one of those annoying internet things that people say? Why would someone talking about privilege turn people into lunatics who think that masks are the work of satan, Jewish people have space lasers and, trying to subvert democracy?

[CoraSpia]

Some people seem to struggle to talk about how the American far right is a domestic terror threat without also talking shit about the left.

I dont even understand what white privilege has to do with it. It's like we're talking about Trump and someone brings up the time a friend got a shitty haircut.

White privilege has something to do with it because when groups perpetually minimise the concerns of a large section of the population due to some so-called 'privelege' they have, they shouldn't be surprised that members of that group get a little annoyed.

[Galloism]

I believe that the privilege talk is a factor in why right-wing terrorism is growing however. When you tell a lot of people, many of whom are struggling with poverty or other social ills that their concerns matter less as they're apparently 'privileged' because of what they will see as a totally irrelevant benefit they supposedly have then it's going to make those people pretty fucking angry.

Speaking as someone who is somewhere left wing and doesn't really use ' race or ethnic privilege' as a talking point I don't really get it. Wouldn't it just be one of those annoying internet things that people say? Why would someone talking about privilege turn people into lunatics who think that masks are the work of satan, Jewish people have space lasers and, trying to subvert democracy?

Obviously, there are a multitude of factors here beyond privilege rhetoric. Insanity, perhaps. Disconnection from reality. Something along those lines.

But there is a factor here that the privilege rhetoric does have real world effects which I've cited and proven - hatred of poor whites by liberals, and solidarity from conservatives, and this drives social effects. You don't really want white conservatives having too much white solidarity (Belgium seen sweating), or white liberals hating the poor. This is likely one of the factors where the absolute disdain for "middle america" comes in from the left, and, is repaid, in kind, for the "coastal elites".

It drives division. Division drives terrorism.

It also doesn't help we had someone in the white house literally doing his best to sow division for four years.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

I’m going to say this again

Terrorism is individuals going to extreme lengths of violence. One would not go to such lengths unless they felt like it was the only possible option in their eyes. The fact that people go to such lengths in the US shows there is an overarching issue in this country that is being unheard, and it’s really no surprising to me that the far right has become so violent in recent years, considering how far America has fallen since the 90s, and how shitty life has become for the average American who doesn’t earn six figures. This increase in violence has also happened on the left, and it’s completely understandable why as well. We see boogaloo boys and BLM protesting side by side nowadays, and we saw DSA leftists and far right Trumpists come together against wall street in January, what we are seeing is a general disdain for the establishment in this country.

[CoraSpia]

Speaking as someone who is somewhere left wing and doesn't really use ' race or ethnic privilege' as a talking point I don't really get it. Wouldn't it just be one of those annoying internet things that people say? Why would someone talking about privilege turn people into lunatics who think that masks are the work of satan, Jewish people have space lasers and, trying to subvert democracy?

Obviously, there are a multitude of factors here beyond privilege rhetoric. Insanity, perhaps. Disconnection from reality. Something along those lines.

But there is a factor here that the privilege rhetoric does have real world effects which I've cited and proven - hatred of poor whites by liberals, and solidarity from conservatives, and this drives social effects. You don't really want white conservatives having too much white solidarity (Belgium seen sweating), or white liberals hating the poor. This is likely one of the factors where the absolute disdain for "middle america" comes in from the left, and, is repaid, in kind, for the "coastal elites".

It drives division. Division drives terrorism.

It also doesn't help we had someone in the white house literally doing his best to sow division for four years.

It's not even just that. When the discussion focuses so much on the issues faced by particular groups, political momentum does as well. Funding goes to programs designed to aid those groups which often have clauses making them exclusive to those groups. See for example the way in which rape resources are entirely aligned to help women, the way in which college scholarships are disproportionately aimed at people from minority ethnic backgrounds. It leads to the lives of poor people who come from majority groups getting progressively worse and opportunities for them to advance their lives getting rarer. It creates a class of people who are left behind, who find it far easier to accept the statements of far right politicians who promise to improve their life. The terrorism is a symptom of the lack of opportunities faced by poor white people and the lack of any political will to sort that situation out.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I’m going to say this again

Terrorism is individuals going to extreme lengths of violence. One would not go to such lengths unless they felt like it was the only possible option in their eyes. The fact that people go to such lengths in the US shows there is an overarching issue in this country that is being unheard, and it’s really no surprising to me that the far right has become so violent in recent years, considering how far America has fallen since the 90s, and how shitty life has become for the average American who doesn’t earn six figures. This increase in violence has also happened on the left, and it’s completely understandable why as well. We see boogaloo boys and BLM protesting side by side nowadays, and we saw DSA leftists and far right Trumpists come together against wall street in January, what we are seeing is a general disdain for the establishment in this country.

This is bullshit. You don’t see boog boys side by side with BLM’ers. One wants social justice, the other wants a license to kill.

The extreme right has absolutely no solutions to systemic problems. If you want to abolish capitalism, become a socialist. The extreme right has absolutely nothing to offer but more and stronger capitalism.