Burn, Bernie, Burn!

[Deus Malum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXFaElFI_s0
See the (R)? Stop with the thread jack to make your nonsensical claims about fox, this is a Bernie Madoff thread.

Nonsensical? They ALREADY did this once with Mark Foley. Whether my source on this is wrong or not. And since when are you the thread police?

Excerpt from the forum rules:
Thread Hijacking: Appropriating a thread for a discussion totally unrelated to the original purpose of said thread. Hijacking can take the form of a single post or a long discussion. Such posts may be split or deleted, and the poster warned.

Since this thread is about Bernie Madoff, not Fox news, you are hijacking it. I do not claim to be the thread police, however, if you would like me to inform them I would more than happy to.

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

[Vervaria]

EDIT: NVM, link not in existence anymore

[Deus Malum]

Edit: Link issue resolved.

[Vervaria]

Yeah, just caught that myself, edited the post.

[Parthenon]

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

[Ashmoria]

stupid freaking glitch

[Deus Malum]

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

Actually mine was about the side discussion regarding the integrity of Fox News, which was relevant to the exchange going on in the thread about Fox News. Your inability to pick up on basic context is not my problem.

[Ashmoria]

IMO Madoff got off easy. But hopefully he'll be sent to some prison suitable to criminals of his magnitude, and not some country club lock-up. Likely he won't even make it to the 12 years his mouthpiece was asking the court for. He may not even survive the (inevitable ) appeals process.

Quite a lifestyle change, eh Bernie?

can you appeal when you plead guilty?

[Parthenon]

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

Actually mine was about the side discussion regarding the integrity of Fox News, which was relevant to the exchange going on in the thread about Fox News. Your inability to pick up on basic context is not my problem.

For the last time, this thread isn't about Fox news though, its about Bernie Madoff. Just because other posters were participating in thread jacking doesn't make it appropriate for you to join in.

[Blouman Empire]

EDIT: NVM, link not in existence anymore

Does no one see my link

[Parthenon]

IMO Madoff got off easy. But hopefully he'll be sent to some prison suitable to criminals of his magnitude, and not some country club lock-up. Likely he won't even make it to the 12 years his mouthpiece was asking the court for. He may not even survive the (inevitable ) appeals process.

Quite a lifestyle change, eh Bernie?

can you appeal when you plead guilty?

Yes, however you must show that the plea was uniformed and not voluntary. Basically, you would have to argue that your original lawyer committed malpractice which is going to be quite difficult with a high profile case like this.

[Deus Malum]

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

Actually mine was about the side discussion regarding the integrity of Fox News, which was relevant to the exchange going on in the thread about Fox News. Your inability to pick up on basic context is not my problem.

For the last time, this thread isn't about Fox news though, its about Bernie Madoff. Just because other posters were participating in thread jacking doesn't make it appropriate for you to join in.

The only person who keeps making an issue out of this, and continuing this threadjack, is you. Get over it, understand what the discussion earlier was about, read up on the concept of context, and move on.

[Ravea]

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

You know, I'm pretty sure Madoff wont actually be receiving a pardon.

I have no idea why you would think that.

[Vervaria]

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

You know, I'm pretty sure Madoff wont actually be receiving a pardon.

I have no idea why you would think that.

I'm fairly certain that he doesn't, and he was just trolling Democrats. To be a bit more OT, Madoff got what he deserved, may he rot in prison. (And not receive a pardon )

[Parthenon]

Ah, so your aside about Obama's health care policies was also in violation.
Thanks.

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

You know, I'm pretty sure Madoff wont actually be receiving a pardon.

I have no idea why you would think that.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm
Take a good look at some of Clinton's pardons. It wouldn't be unprecedented to pardon someone for such a crime. Since a majority of the money is unaccounted for there is also the potential for bribery in making a case for getting apardon. Not only bribery in the sense of money exchanging hands, but bribery in the sense that he could turn it over to the administration to help with their PR.

[Ravea]

My comment was about Bernie Madoff most likely receiving a presidential pardon down the road while yours on the other hand was pointless image linking to argue against Fox News with no relevance to Madoff whatsoever.

You know, I'm pretty sure Madoff wont actually be receiving a pardon.

I have no idea why you would think that.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm
Take a good look at some of Clinton's pardons. It wouldn't be unprecedented to pardon someone for such a crime. Since a majority of the money is unaccounted for there is also the potential for bribery in making a case for getting apardon. Not only bribery in the sense of money exchanging hands, but bribery in the sense that he could turn it over to the administration to help with their PR.

None of these people (or all the people Bush pardoned) embezzled hundreds of billions of dollars. You know as well as I no one will ever pardon Madoff.

[The Surinam Enclave]

That bernie maddorf is severely punished is the only acceptable outcome of this world-wide tragedy.

This............. man....... has caused such economical and personal damage to companies, institutions and persons that the effect wil be felt in years to come. That the common man can see that these vile criminals are taken down is something that i am true glad off.

However, I am not suprised that certain elements in the US goverment, upper-class soceity and private sector wants to make an example of this criminal. Somehow I have also the nagging feeling that the second reason to punish him is plain-out revenge. Imagine how many wealty, influential and powerful people have been duped by him...then imagine the collective rage of these people....and the sheer force they have wielded to take out their revenge.

If you are a common man and have to cross blades with these people.........plain right scary.

[Muravyets]

I was pretty sure he would get the max, which just happened to add up to 150 years. To me the funniest thing, and the detail that explains so very very much about Bernie Madoff, was that he had the BALLS to ask the court for just 12 years. WTF?

[Blouman Empire]

To me the funniest thing, and the detail that explains so very very much about Bernie Madoff, was that he had the BALLS to ask the court for just 12 years. WTF?

Can't blame a man for trying.

[Cameroi]

actually i don't like fox because they ARE slavish proponents of a political agenda that is completely both illogical and irresponsible. same goes for cnn and to an only slightly lesser degree, the rest of corporate media in general, which, when corporate economic intrests run the state, corporate media IS state media.

as for this guy, (mattox) well he's maybe more of a mixed bag then he's given credit for.
none the less, well i don't have the same evidence in front of me the judge had so i'm not going to back bench his decision.

you can almost bet though, that the kind of prison and treatment he's going to receive is substantially softer then some joe sixpack who robbed a liqure store to pay his invalid wife's hospital bills or something.

[Intangelon]

That bernie maddorf is severely punished is the only acceptable outcome of this world-wide tragedy.

This............. man....... has caused such economical and personal damage to companies, institutions and persons that the effect wil be felt in years to come. That the common man can see that these vile criminals are taken down is something that i am true glad off.

However, I am not suprised that certain elements in the US goverment, upper-class soceity and private sector wants to make an example of this criminal. Somehow I have also the nagging feeling that the second reason to punish him is plain-out revenge. Imagine how many wealty, influential and powerful people have been duped by him...then imagine the collective rage of these people....and the sheer force they have wielded to take out their revenge.

If you are a common man and have to cross blades with these people.........plain right scary.

Pardon me, but how did people so "influential" and "powerful" manage to fall for promised returns too good to possibly be legitimate? I keep hearing from wealth-humping sycophants that those who invest are so very smart, else they wouldn't be so successful. Seems to me like those who drank Bernie's Kool-Aid deserved what they got, too, for being blinded by their own greed. So yeah, Bernie's gonna serve "150 years" in a country-club federal prison for white-collar naughty boys, and those who lost a lot of money are just as screwed. I find it hard to dredge up sympathy.

[Muravyets]

Pardon me, but how did people so "influential" and "powerful" manage to fall for promised returns too good to possibly be legitimate? I keep hearing from wealth-humping sycophants that those who invest are so very smart, else they wouldn't be so successful. Seems to me like those who drank Bernie's Kool-Aid deserved what they got, too, for being blinded by their own greed. So yeah, Bernie's gonna serve "150 years" in a country-club federal prison for white-collar naughty boys, and those who lost a lot of money are just as screwed. I find it hard to dredge up sympathy.

You might want to try a little harder, Intangelon. Many of Madoff's victims were separated from him by a couple of degrees of bad management. He ripped off pension and investment funds because he was able to dupe fund managers who should have known better -- but the real victims were individual investors in the funds who could not afford to lose the money the fund manager lost for them. More of Madoff's victims were charities investing in funds to build their endowment reserves. Many, many charities lost more huge chunks of their reserves -- some were wiped out altogether -- and the real victims are the poor who will not receive services because the money was stolen by Madoff ripping off bad fund managers. Same with universities and educational funding services that will have to cut back or cut out services to students.

Is Madoff the only person at fault here? No, he isn't. The stupid, greedy, lazy fund managers also deserve heavy blame. But Madoff is the only actual criminal in the picture, so he gets the 150 years.

But let's not forget who the real victims of his crimes are -- retirees, pension funds, charities, schools, medical facilities, etc. The way Madoff picked his targets shows a vicious malice underneath the surface.

[Ashmoria]

can you appeal when you plead guilty?

Yes, however you must show that the plea was uniformed and not voluntary. Basically, you would have to argue that your original lawyer committed malpractice which is going to be quite difficult with a high profile case like this.

so there really shouldnt be endless appeals. he has no better chance of winning an appeal --even of his sentence--than larry craig had to appeal his indecent behavior plea.

"but i didnt think id get that long a sentence" isnt grounds for appeal.

[Intangelon]

Pardon me, but how did people so "influential" and "powerful" manage to fall for promised returns too good to possibly be legitimate? I keep hearing from wealth-humping sycophants that those who invest are so very smart, else they wouldn't be so successful. Seems to me like those who drank Bernie's Kool-Aid deserved what they got, too, for being blinded by their own greed. So yeah, Bernie's gonna serve "150 years" in a country-club federal prison for white-collar naughty boys, and those who lost a lot of money are just as screwed. I find it hard to dredge up sympathy.

You might want to try a little harder, Intangelon. Many of Madoff's victims were separated from him by a couple of degrees of bad management. He ripped off pension and investment funds because he was able to dupe fund managers who should have known better -- but the real victims were individual investors in the funds who could not afford to lose the money the fund manager lost for them. More of Madoff's victims were charities investing in funds to build their endowment reserves. Many, many charities lost more huge chunks of their reserves -- some were wiped out altogether -- and the real victims are the poor who will not receive services because the money was stolen by Madoff ripping off bad fund managers. Same with universities and educational funding services that will have to cut back or cut out services to students.

Is Madoff the only person at fault here? No, he isn't. The stupid, greedy, lazy fund managers also deserve heavy blame. But Madoff is the only actual criminal in the picture, so he gets the 150 years.

But let's not forget who the real victims of his crimes are -- retirees, pension funds, charities, schools, medical facilities, etc. The way Madoff picked his targets shows a vicious malice underneath the surface.

Fair enough. But anyone hearing of returns so astronomical, be they the funds managers or those who the managers represent, simply must think "this sounds unreal". Unless those who hire the fund managers are so uninvolved with their money that they trust people who slew greed for a living.

It sucks that charities got involved, but who invests money without getting details about the percentage of return and how the investment works?

[Muravyets]

Fair enough. But anyone hearing of returns so astronomical, be they the funds managers or those who the managers represent, simply must think "this sounds unreal". Unless those who hire the fund managers are so uninvolved with their money that they trust people who slew greed for a living.

It sucks that charities got involved, but who invests money without getting details about the percentage of return and how the investment works?

The majority of people who invest in funds really are that detached from the management of the fund. Funds can be so big and change portfolios so rapidly that nobody aside from the managers can keep track of where which money is at any given time. The funds are rated by their returns, but what produces those returns is hard to know. This is especially true when you're talking about funds that handle billions of dollars and individual investors with accounts in the millions, like big charities or universities and even pools of charities, schools, etc. You have to trust that the managers know what they are doing and will fulfill their fiduciary duty. Madoff was able to run his scam because so many fund managers failed in that respect. For those failures, they deserve punishment, in my opinion, but being bad at your job is not a crime, so it wouldn't be punishment from the legal system.

EDIT: A lot of Madoff's victims never even heard of Bernie Madoff until he got arrested. /edit

Now, yes, there were individuals who invested directly with Madoff, and those people were idiots.