NationStates

I was a bit surprised when I found out no thread had been dedicated to the recent political developments in Northern Ireland. Youths are throwing molotovs again, setting both personal cars and police vehicles alight. It seems as though most of this violence has been sparked by loyalist communities, particularly those of Northern Belfast, over PM Boris Johnson’s decision to tolerate border protocols between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, effectively creating a border between the two.

Seems as though Bojo’s EU politics might destabilize Ulster a great deal. As someone who’s got family and friends over in county Antrim, I’m anxious to see how this pans out.

Any thoughts?

(Sources for those who’d like a bit more information on the subject:
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/n ... 96950.html
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/unr ... 73363.html
https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.bbc.com ... d-56664378)

It looks like the tensions between the Irish and British haven't cooled as much as people hoped. I heard someone once call the situation in Northern Ireland "cold war" because while the troubles officially ended, the two communities still don't really get along and occasional violence still flares up.

I don't see why a border would be necessary between GB and NI. A border doesn't exist between England and Scotland or England and Wales (afaik), so why should one exist between GB and NI?

Come out ye black and tans.

Atheris wrote:I don't see why a border would be necessary between GB and NI. A border doesn't exist between England and Scotland or England and Wales (afaik), so why should one exist between GB and NI?

Because ni borders i.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Atheris wrote:I don't see why a border would be necessary between GB and NI. A border doesn't exist between England and Scotland or England and Wales (afaik), so why should one exist between GB and NI?

Because ni borders i.

So? It's not like NI is part of Ireland. That's like establishing a border patrol between Maine and Vermont because Maine borders Canada or between Texas and Oklahoma because Texas borders Mexico.

Atheris wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Because ni borders i.

So? It's not like NI is part of Ireland. That's like establishing a border patrol between Maine and Vermont because Maine borders Canada or between Texas and Oklahoma because Texas borders Mexico.

What happened to New Hampshire?

Ach, the daft wee loons

The Transmondian Commonwealth wrote:

Atheris wrote:So? It's not like NI is part of Ireland. That's like establishing a border patrol between Maine and Vermont because Maine borders Canada or between Texas and Oklahoma because Texas borders Mexico.

What happened to New Hampshire?

New Hampshire is a communist scam, like Wyoming, Australia, and male calicos.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:It looks like the tensions between the Irish and British haven't cooled as much as people hoped. I heard someone once call the situation in Northern Ireland "cold war" because while the troubles officially ended, the two communities still don't really get along and occasional violence still flares up.

It's hard for it to settle down when there are English-supremacist asshats acting like the friggin Klan.

Atheris wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Because ni borders i.

So? It's not like NI is part of Ireland. That's like establishing a border patrol between Maine and Vermont because Maine borders Canada or between Texas and Oklahoma because Texas borders Mexico.

Now its eu v non eu. Before it wasnt

Ethel mermania wrote:

Atheris wrote:So? It's not like NI is part of Ireland. That's like establishing a border patrol between Maine and Vermont because Maine borders Canada or between Texas and Oklahoma because Texas borders Mexico.

Now its eu v non eu. Before it wasnt

Fair. Why doesn't Ireland just leave the EU, then?

/j in case you can't tell

Atheris wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Now its eu v non eu. Before it wasnt

Fair. Why doesn't Ireland just leave the EU, then?

/j in case you can't tell

Pisses off the Brits

Brits out

Atheris wrote:

The Transmondian Commonwealth wrote:
What happened to New Hampshire?

New Hampshire is a communist scam, like Wyoming, Australia, and male calicos.

They have enough guns to be a border patrol, though.

Atheris wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Because ni borders i.

So? It's not like NI is part of Ireland. That's like establishing a border patrol between Maine and Vermont because Maine borders Canada or between Texas and Oklahoma because Texas borders Mexico.

I wrote this to answer a different question but it answers yours as well.

Heloin wrote:Northern Ireland is the single most volatile and complex place in the British Isles, and no one made any plan for it during Brexit. All of the solutiones suck for everyone involved. Unionists will not accept a border on the Irish Sea since it separates them from the UK and Nationalists won't accept a hard border within Ireland because that is at odds with the goal of unification and a it kind of spits in the face of the policies and agreements that actually lead to peace.

Atheris wrote:I don't see why a border would be necessary between GB and NI. A border doesn't exist between England and Scotland or England and Wales (afaik), so why should one exist between GB and NI?

It's a consequence of the particular type of Brexit pursued by the Tory government and the peace process that lead to the Good Friday Agreement. The Agreement's general thrust was to ensure cooperation and build shared institutions between the RoI and the UK, such that people in Northern Ireland could move freely between the two places, conduct trade across the border and even gain citizenship in Ireland so that there would be no effective separation from the two (which was one of the main points of contention in the violence in NI). When both countries were part of the EU this wasn't a problem, but post-Brexit it posed an issue since Brexit effectively ended free movement between the EU and the UK and would have placed customs checks and whatnot on the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Since that would be violating the Agreement, the Tory government put in a 'compromise' whereby NI was allowed to retain effective customs union with the RoI/the EU, and a customs/movement 'border' would be put in place between NI and the rest of the UK.

This has been widely considered a Bad Idea for a number of reasons, including that it puts more administrative burden on NI businesses and UK businesses that operate in NI.

From an implementation perspective it is orders of magnitude easier to make the border the sea.

The Irish are at it agian, I see

Atheris wrote:Fair. Why doesn't Ireland just leave the EU, then?

/j in case you can't tell

Why can’t we just have a united Ireland (under British rule)?

Velosia wrote:

Atheris wrote:Fair. Why doesn't Ireland just leave the EU, then?

/j in case you can't tell

Why can’t we just have a united Ireland (under British rule)?

Jimmy Carr wants his joke back.

Neanderthaland wrote:Jimmy Carr wants his joke back.

Oh wow, you’re right. I guess that’s what I get for trying to be original...

the luck of the Irish continues to be terrible

The Transmondian Commonwealth wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:It looks like the tensions between the Irish and British haven't cooled as much as people hoped. I heard someone once call the situation in Northern Ireland "cold war" because while the troubles officially ended, the two communities still don't really get along and occasional violence still flares up.

It's hard for it to settle down when there are English-supremacist asshats acting like the friggin Klan.

It’s not that simple, funnily enough. Most of the loyalists in Ulster descended from Scottish lowlanders, and ever since the Thatcher’s concessions to Fublin, many loyalists have actually bore a reasonable distrust towards England, particularly the UK government. I dare say this distrust has intensified now that Boris seems to have gone back on a promise he made loudly and frequently (https://youtu.be/d7NFfUOJwDE)

Besides the fact that claims of KKK-like English supremacists are plain wrong, I don’t think we’re doing the social cohesion (which has steadily been rising since the Good Friday Agreement) any good if we cast off half the population as villainous racists. Unionists are people, with their own lives, fears and interests. Ever since the debate of Ireland annexing the six northern counties took off, some nationalists have pleased for deportation, and though it may not be a very popular thing to say, I believe Northern Ireland belongs every bit as much to the Scots-descended loyalists as it does to the Irish nationalists.

Still, this is a very difficult subject for me personally, since I’ve got family on both sides of the divide, and I’ve always held a disdain for groups of both Prods and Taigs that engage in terrorism. I think Heloin described it best when they said the sectarian violence in Northern Ireland is doomed to continue, since the loyalists and nationalist are so opposed to one another, the differences between them being so immense, that it’s a miracle the country hasn’t yet erupted into civil war (again).

Regardless, one would think that the NSG community, which at times may be quite nuanced and open-minded, would be remissed in spouting republican slogans, a regrettable occurance that is unfortunately manifest in this thread.

Atheris wrote:I don't see why a border would be necessary between GB and NI. A border doesn't exist between England and Scotland or England and Wales (afaik), so why should one exist between GB and NI?

Because EU says that there needs to be a border somewhere, that's the whole point of the EU. In EU, no border, out of EU, border. Well anyways, GB wasn't allowed for a border between NI and RI because of an agreement made before, and so NI now has a border with GB instead of RI. I think.