White Supremacy discussion thread

[Vorausen]

Allowing Fascists to have a voice will only allow Fascism to come to power in the end, which is a net negative for literally everyone who isn't part of their "pure" clique.

But I guess nobody wants to learn their fucking history so the rest of us who have are forced to sit back and watch as the same dumbass mistakes are made all over again.

Actually, fascists were often censored by the democratic states they later overthrown. Not saying that we should sympathize with the fascists, but free speech was not the reason they came to power. Hitler was even banned from doing public speeches due to antisemitism before he came to power.

I'm not for suppressing free speech. Let those with grotesque views alert others to avoid them, and arrest them when they go from words (exceptions apply of course) to actual action.

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

[Kowani]

Actually, fascists were often censored by the democratic states they later overthrown. Not saying that we should sympathize with the fascists, but free speech was not the reason they came to power. Hitler was even banned from doing public speeches due to antisemitism before he came to power.

I'm not for suppressing free speech. Let those with grotesque views alert others to avoid them, and arrest them when they go from words (exceptions apply of course) to actual action.

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

hitler was in prison for launching a failed coup, not for being a nazi

[Salus Maior]

Actually, fascists were often censored by the democratic states they later overthrown. Not saying that we should sympathize with the fascists, but free speech was not the reason they came to power. Hitler was even banned from doing public speeches due to antisemitism before he came to power.

I'm not for suppressing free speech. Let those with grotesque views alert others to avoid them, and arrest them when they go from words (exceptions apply of course) to actual action.

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

It wasn’t much of a persecution.

For attempting to overthrow the government in Munich, he was sentenced to 6 months. He only served 4.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Actually, fascists were often censored by the democratic states they later overthrown. Not saying that we should sympathize with the fascists, but free speech was not the reason they came to power. Hitler was even banned from doing public speeches due to antisemitism before he came to power.

The idea is to prevent them from spreading their ideals before they have time to ingrain themselves in enough of the local population. Hitler's silencing was too little, too late. You don't perform CPR on a body that's already been buried.

I'm not for suppressing free speech. Let those with grotesque views alert others to avoid them, and arrest them when they go from words (exceptions apply of course) to actual action.

Free speech should be reserved for those who don't want it's total and complete abolition.

Absoluteness is stupid. Full stop.

When Hitler was silenced, it was still far from a guarantee that he would actually gain power, and he gained power because someone as stupid enough to appoint him Chancellor and be convinced to suspend civil liberties by him, not because he managed to get a majority of the vote by convincing the people through a speech.

Resorting to censorship like it will fix all problems is what's stupid. Let them out themselves and have police infiltrate their groups. Keep close tabs on them and the second their members do something illegal, go after them. That would be more efficient than trying to overturn Supreme Court precedents and opening up the door for our incompetent government to abuse such a new opening to suppress legitimate criticism under the guise of keeping the peace.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

It wasn’t much of a persecution.

For attempting to overthrow the government in Munich, he was sentenced to 6 months. He only served 4.

Not what I was talking about, but for that coup, he should have been imprisoned for a lot longer, I will give you that.

[Genivaria]

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

It wasn’t much of a persecution.

For attempting to overthrow the government in Munich, he was sentenced to 6 months. He only served 4.

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

[The Reformed American Republic]

It wasn’t much of a persecution.

For attempting to overthrow the government in Munich, he was sentenced to 6 months. He only served 4.

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

I agree.

[Baltenstein]

What I mean is people are applying our current racial concepts to ancient history where they didn't exist. They're arguing about the race of the Egyptians but the Egyptians simply saw themselves as Egyptians, not black or white.

Because if it didn't happen in a white country then it doesn't matter.

No, seriously. A lot of people in America (And The West in general) both on the side of and against racial equality have very Americentric views of the world and don't really consider the fact that either A. Independent countries/ethnic groups can come up with their own forms of discrimination, or B. Things work differently outside of America. Malcolm X for example, he believed it was impossible for black and white people to live together because of racial issues in America, but then he went on Hajj and saw multiple various ethnic groups and races treating each other with respect and equality, which is why when he became El-Hajj Malik al Shabazz, he adopted a similar Civil Rights stance as MLK. (Which royally pissed of the Nation of Islam)

Hell, I remember seeing a documentary is one of my Soc. classes that said America is the reason East Asians want to be whiter, because American movies show black people as bad. (When in reality it's because of historical class differences in China, Japan, Korea, etc... Lighter skinned people were richer because they spent most of their time inside working on political and financial matters, thus making them lighter, while darker skinned people were poorer due to having to farm for a living)

Basically, it's trying to fight racial inequality by being totally ignorant to other cultures and generally repugnant all around.

It get's particularly weird when inner-American narratives get airlifted, vocabulary and all, to campuses of societies with vastly different historic and sociocultural dynamics. Like, say, using the term "Indigenous Rights group" in a Danish or German context...would that be about the rights of Hans and Olaf?

[The Reformed American Republic]

Actually, fascists were often censored by the democratic states they later overthrown. Not saying that we should sympathize with the fascists, but free speech was not the reason they came to power. Hitler was even banned from doing public speeches due to antisemitism before he came to power.

I'm not for suppressing free speech. Let those with grotesque views alert others to avoid them, and arrest them when they go from words (exceptions apply of course) to actual action.

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

Being arrested for trying to launch a coup is not being oppressed, but yes, the trial did make him unfortunately look like a hero. He should have been imprisoned for a lot longer or executed. Regardless, my point was arresting people for hate speech is not what stands between us and the next fascist takeover. That isn't to say take no action, but restricting the first amendment is not the answer.

It's easy for some to dogpile with a strawman that I want no action against dangerous groups to be taken and that I'm pro-fascism, but that's not what I'm expressing at all.

[Salus Maior]

It wasn’t much of a persecution.

For attempting to overthrow the government in Munich, he was sentenced to 6 months. He only served 4.

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

Yeah; but the judge liked him.

[Vorausen]

It wasn’t much of a persecution.

For attempting to overthrow the government in Munich, he was sentenced to 6 months. He only served 4.

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

So your reasoning goes that if we kill the leader of a movement the fore the influence of that movement would diminish? Plenty of examples where people thought this would happen but nope they were soooo wrong:
Osama bin Laden- Does Islamic terrorism and extremism still exists today? Yep.
Joeseph Stalin- Plenty of Americans thought that his death might mean the end of the USSR (or at least weaken it) but nope USSR continued on for a little bit longer
Martin Luther King- Many strides have been made for Civil long after MLK's death
Jesus Christ- Became the messiah for more than 3 billion people worldwide.... because he died and people tried to silence him.
I could go on and on, but that would be reiterating my point.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

Yeah; but the judge liked him.

Mandatory minimums is what you do to fix that.

[Vorausen]

Yeah; but the judge liked him.

Mandatory minimums is what you do to fix that.

Don't get me started with Mandatory minimums and how screwed up it is.

[Saiwania]

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

It would because there was no other in the party that had the same speaking ability. It was worthwhile because without the NSDAP, Germany would've never become great in all of its history.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

It would because there was no other in the party that had the same speaking ability. It was worthwhile because without the NSDAP, Germany would've never become great in all of its history.

[Elwher]

White people are superior - racist statement

White people are racist - racist statement

Any statement applying qualities of some members of a race to an entire race - racist statement.

[The Reformed American Republic]

White people are superior - racist statement

White people are racist - racist statement

Any statement applying qualities of some members of a race to an entire race - racist statement.

Agreed.

[Kowani]

While fascism's not the topic here... isn't that a lose-lose proposition you're telling here? Don't allow them a voice, they'll spread underground. Allow them a voice, they'll spread nonetheless.

Fascism and White Supremacy go hand-in-hand. While you can have the former without the latter, the inverse is not equally true. White Supremacy is Fascist by nature, as is all racial supremacy. So it very much is relevant to the topic.

And the "go underground" myth has already been debunked earlier by several users. One of which I believe was Kowani, who linked a source as he usually does because the man's an absolute chad and a living encyclopedia.

Two sources, actually, because it's a double-pronged affair. The first question is "does it work in the original site?" Pretty unambiguous yes.

The second question "what if they go to other platforms" is slightly more nuanced-They do migrate to other platforms, but their reach is greatly reduced, and they don't appear to drag much of their original community with them.

[Vorausen]

White people are superior - racist statement

White people are racist - racist statement

Any statement applying qualities of some members of a race to an entire race - racist statement.

Truth, this applies to everybody, not just the stereotypical " the Aryan white supremacist and Nazi"

[Kowani]

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

It would because there was no other in the party that had the same speaking ability. It was worthwhile because without the NSDAP, Germany would've never become great in all of its history.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Fascism and White Supremacy go hand-in-hand. While you can have the former without the latter, the inverse is not equally true. White Supremacy is Fascist by nature, as is all racial supremacy. So it very much is relevant to the topic.

And the "go underground" myth has already been debunked earlier by several users. One of which I believe was Kowani, who linked a source as he usually does because the man's an absolute chad and a living encyclopedia.

Two sources, actually, because it's a double-pronged affair. The first question is "does it work in the original site?" Pretty unambiguous yes.

The second question "what if they go to other platforms" is slightly more nuanced-They do migrate to other platforms, but their reach is greatly reduced, and they don't appear to drag much of their original community with them.

I'm talking about the law, not private companies exercising their right to enforce their TOS.

[Lefebvrai]

Yes, “white supremacists” should be allowed to share their views, imo.
I’m not sure how far I can go without being banned myself, but the entire concept is extremely problematic, not clearly defined, and prone to major abuse.

I’m a “white supremacist” in some people’s eyes, but not others. I prefer to not be banned, but I’m used to it. Nuance is not a thing in 2021. I only am even discussing it because it was an open topic, proposed by someone else.

[The New California Republic]

Pretty sure Hitler wrote his book "Mein Krampf" in prison, I wonder if suppression of Nazism made it seem heroic to people at the time.

"My Cramp"? Was that the early working title?

[Vorausen]

I can't find the exact quote, but somebody was talking about WW2 soidlers and how Americans fought racism.


It is a lie that the Americans got into WW2 to "fight the Nazis". In fact, many people in America shared Anti Semitic (and just plain Anti other nations) views, a great example of this being Henry Ford, who personally admired Hitler. Instead, the attack on Pearl Harbor was the reason why America joined the allies.

I think that it would be possible for the Americans to have never entered the war if pearl harbor never occurred, although unlikely because of the expanding force and influence from Japan.

[The New California Republic]

Execution for treason would've probably nipped the party in the bud.

It would because there was no other in the party that had the same speaking ability. It was worthwhile because without the NSDAP, Germany would've never become great in all of its history.