White Supremacy discussion thread

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

They aren't pan-africanist.

But they are Pan Black, as in operating on a cohesive framework as American Blacks as belonging to a distinct group identity, which was originally spurred this conversation in terms of a Pan-White/Pan-"Europeanist" identity.

How do African-Americans not have a distinct identity? Also, it's not like their original ancestry from 20 generations ago or something matters anymore to their culture and identity.

[Washington Resistance Army]

There's no pan-nationalism to criticize, BLM isn't a nationalist organization.

Pandering to a Pan-Black identity isn't ethnic nationalism?

No, not even remotely because they've protested in favor of white and Latino people killed by police too. BLM literally only exists to call attention to bad policing and how it often impacts non-white Americans worse.

[Suriyanakhon]

There's no pan-nationalism to criticize, BLM isn't a nationalist organization.

Pandering to a Pan-Black identity isn't ethnic nationalism?

Protesting against the well documented police brutality against African Americans isn't ethnic nationalism, no.

[Washington Resistance Army]

No, not even remotely because they've protested in favor of white and Latino people killed by police too. BLM literally only exists to call attention to bad policing and how it often impacts non-white Americans worse.

Let's review their official policy platform:

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done. This includes:

Reparations specifically on the basis, hmm....

We demand independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society. We envision a remaking of the current U.S. political system in order to create a real democracy where Black people and all marginalized people can effectively exercise full political power. This includes:

Political power specifically on the basis of independent, racial lines. It's all about policing reform, right....

Unironically nobody cares about the platform and I feel very confident saying most people don't even know it exists. BLM is a slogan and a social movement that is almost entirely divorced from the actual organization.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Unironically nobody cares about the platform and I feel very confident saying most people don't even know it exists. BLM is a slogan and a social movement that is almost entirely divorced from the actual organization.

Goalpost shifting, quite obviously, and an attempt to create an unfalsifiable argument. If you're taking the position it's just a social movement with no defined goals, you have no ability to claim what it stands for anymore than I do.

Oh but I do, because the protests are very well covered, and guess what they're all about? Policing. Isn't it great that we live in the 21st century and have such information at our fingertips?

[Nakena]

Regardless the BLM protest attracted the support of the masses and it got beyond critical point and the US were close to a colour revolution in June for like a few nights. Security Forces became unreliable, the Army said basically no thanks Trump, fuck you. And the Trump Administration had to resort to obscure DoJ units from texan prisons as last line of defense... then Trump realized he had lost the fight and didn bothered with it anymore and probably saved his regime and that of the political order at large.

[Suriyanakhon]

Protesting against the well documented police brutality against African Americans isn't ethnic nationalism, no.

Would demanding reparations for your race and independent power along racial lines for Black people as a collective whole count?

Demanding reparations isn't nationalism because it has nothing to do with a nation-state and their platform is a lot less revolutionary than it's hyped to be. Most of this is just basic lib stuff from a African American perspective.

[Galloism]

Would demanding reparations for your race and independent power along racial lines for Black people as a collective whole count?

Demanding reparations isn't nationalism because it has nothing to do with a nation-state and their platform is a lot less revolutionary than it's hyped to be. Most of this is just basic lib stuff from a African American perspective.

Those are actually quite reasonable. #5 we'd need to talk about the details, but I like 1-4 at a minimum.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh but I do, because the protests are very well covered, and guess what they're all about? Policing. Isn't it great that we live in the 21st century and have such information at our fingertips?

Ah yes, undefined news reports establishing what this movement-which you said has no centralized structure-is about on what authority? You've now wracked up the logical fallacy of Anecdotal claims. Let's also ignore the existence of entities like Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation and the tens of millions in donations it gets by corporations and the like as the official voice.

Not gonna lie bro I've been deep into this stuff for the past year and this is genuinely the first time I've heard of this group lol. If you think the average person out there at a BLM rally cares about anything more than trying to get police to stop shooting people so often you're just living in another reality entirely. Not everyone is an edgy racist like you.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Not gonna lie bro I've been deep into this stuff for the past year and this is genuinely the first time I've heard of this group lol. If you think the average person out there at a BLM rally cares about anything more than trying to get police to stop shooting people so often you're just living in another reality entirely. Not everyone is an edgy racist like you.

The tried and true "just trust me bro" argument when you can't actually defend what you said beyond anecdotal claims. There is an organization, it's leadership is getting interviewed as authority figures on a regular basis and it is getting the donations, not your average street activists.

Yeah, there is an organization, and that doesn't fucking matter lol. How is this so hard for you pseudointellectuals to understand. Is the concept of a popular movement that foreign to you?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah, there is an organization, and that doesn't fucking matter lol. How is this so hard for you pseudointellectuals to understand. Is the concept of a popular movement that foreign to you?

You have to demonstrate it is not the representative of the group it claims to represent; the onus to define your argument is on you, not me. You can hide behind insults all you want, but that doesn't invalidate you are just making up stuff.

My guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

This is literally Wikipedia tier knowledge. Like, this is as basic as it gets.

[Suriyanakhon]

Demanding reparations isn't nationalism because it has nothing to do with a nation-state and their platform is a lot less revolutionary than it's hyped to be. Most of this is just basic lib stuff from a African American perspective.

Except we're not talking about State Nationalist, but ethnic nationalism which was repeatedly said; nice try at dodging. Whether it's radical in your opinion is likewise irrelevant in terms of what I asked you. You know you've backed yourself into a corner on this, which is why you're suddenly acting so coy.

Ethnic nationalism is about establishing a nation-state for an ethnicity, such as the case of Zionism and the state of Israel or black nationalism which wanted to establish a black nation-state either in America or Jamaica. BLM has nothing in common with black nationalists such as Marcus Garvey who wanted a fascist state dedicated to racial purity.

[Washington Resistance Army]

My guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

This is literally Wikipedia tier knowledge. Like, this is as basic as it gets.

And what, exactly, is Wikipedia supposed to prove lol? Just posting a link with no context, again, does nothing.

Oh my god do I need to explain how Wikipedia works to you lmfao

Those numbers at the end of things takes you to the top of the bottom of the page and highlights the source used, you'll notice there's an abundance of them for BLM being a decentralized popular movement with no real leadership or goals beyond combatting police brutality and in some cases militarization. Have fun reading, come back when you actually understand the topic.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh my god do I need to explain how Wikipedia works to you lmfao

Those numbers at the end of things takes you to the top of the bottom of the page and highlights the source used, you'll notice there's an abundance of them for BLM being a decentralized popular movement with no real leadership or goals beyond combatting police brutality and in some cases militarization. Have fun reading, come back when you actually understand the topic.

Such as this hyper-link lol:

Freedom fighters around the globe commemorate July 13 as the day that three Black women helped give birth to a movement. In the five short years since #Black LivesMatter arrived on the scene — thanks to the creative genius of Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometti — the push for Black liberation from state-inflicted violence has evolved into one of the most influential social movements of the post-civil rights era.

Black Lives Matter has always been more of a human rights movement rather than a civil rights movement. BLM's focus has been less about changing specific laws and more about fighting for a fundamental reordering of society wherein Black lives are free from systematic dehumanization. Still, the movement’s measurable impact on the political and legal landscape is undeniable.

What gets referred to as “the Black Lives Matter movement” is, in actuality, the collective labor of a wide range of Black liberation organizations, each which their own distinct histories. These organizations include groups like the Black Youth Project 100, the Dream Defenders, Assata’s Daughters, the St. Louis Action council, Millennial Activists United, and the Organization for Black Struggle, to name just a few.

Collectively, since 2013, these organizers have effected significant change locally and nationally, including the ousting of high-profile corrupt prosecutors. In Chicago, the labor of groups such as BYP100 and Assata’s Daughters, among others, led Anita Alvarez — who had inexplicably failed to charge police officers who shot at least 68 people to death — to lose her re-election bid for Cook County prosecutor. And in Florida, groups like The Dream Defenders and others helped end Angela Corey’s reign as a state attorney. Corey remains infamous for failing to convict Trayvon Martin’s killer George Zimmerman while prosecuting Marissa Alexander, a Black woman who didn’t hurt anyone when firing a warning shot at her abusive ex-husband.

The BLM movement’s work certainly doesn’t stop there. Students on the ground in Missouri, as part of the #ConcernedStudent1950 movement, helped lead to the resignation of the University of Missouri president over his failure to deal with racism on campus. BLM compelled Democrats to restructure their national platform to include issues such as criminal justice reform, and the movement contributed to the election of Black leftist organizers to public office, such as activist Chokwe Lumumba to mayor of Jackson, Mississippi.

It's just about policing indeed.

Yeah, your highlighted part literally says that, and people have been getting elected to do it. I don't know if you thought this was a gotcha but it failed if it was meant to be one.

[Suriyanakhon]

Ethnic nationalism is about establishing a nation-state for an ethnicity, such as the case of Zionism and the state of Israel or black nationalism which wanted to establish a black nation-state either in America or Jamaica. BLM has nothing in common with black nationalists such as Marcus Garvey who wanted a fascist state dedicated to racial purity.

Ah, so now it specifically has to advocate for the establishment of an ethnically cohesive nation? In which case, the National Justice Party isn't White Nationalist, since it does not call for such?

What do you mean by “now?” And I have no idea what every obscure white supremacist organization states that it believes, but the establishment of a racially pure white ethno-state tends to be one of their central tenets,

[Fahran]

What do you mean by “now?” And I have no idea what every obscure white supremacist organization states that it believes, but the establishment of a racially pure white ethno-state tends to be one of their central tenets,

The NJP is a bit strange in this regard. They do promote a state that favors "European", here meaning white, interests, but they don't seem to want to ethnically cleanse all black and brown people, at least not on paper. They seem to favor segregation and parallel institutions, which, realistically, would not make a singular state a viable option in the long-term.

[Fahran]

As for Black Lives Matter, the movement does attract folks I would consider to be black nationalists/identitarians. That's not too surprising given such ideologues would obviously have gripes about the impact of American institutions on black people. And, when I use the term nationalists, the implication isn't so much that they want to create a nation-state, but, rather, that they view themselves as a distinct nation or ethnic/racial identity and seek to advance the collective interests of said nation, even in the absence of a nation-state. While some black identitarians have been Pan-Africanists, there's seems to be a dawning realization that Black Americans as an ethnic group are very distinct from Asante, Igbo, Tigrayans, or Xhosa despite drawing upon some shared history and cultural facets.

[Kowani]

What do you mean by “now?” And I have no idea what every obscure white supremacist organization states that it believes, but the establishment of a racially pure white ethno-state tends to be one of their central tenets,

The NJP is a bit strange in this regard. They do promote a state that favors "European", here meaning white, interests, but they don't seem to want to ethnically cleanse all black and brown people, at least not on paper. They seem to favor segregation and parallel institutions, which, realistically, would not make a singular state a viable option in the long-term.

a political party advocating genocide would be even less popular than one advocating segregation (though neither are really feasible at the level they would need to implement their policies anyway)

[Fahran]

a political party advocating genocide would be even less popular than one advocating segregation (though neither are really feasible at the level they would need to implement their policies anyway)

At least not under present circumstances. The threat could become more pronounced down the road based on levels of resentment and radicalization.

[Kowani]

a political party advocating genocide would be even less popular than one advocating segregation (though neither are really feasible at the level they would need to implement their policies anyway)

At least not under present circumstances. The threat could become more pronounced down the road based on levels of resentment and radicalization.

i mean
i'd have to really dive into the polling data (and some of the experiments i'm thinking of require books for me to really show it thoroughly)
but it would require an absurd amount of things to all go their way at the same time
even the currently-weakened norm of racial equality in political rhetoric still has bounds
racial resentment does not tend to lend itself way to belief in segregation, because the "remedy" is directly at odds with at least a part of the grievance structure and ideological underpinnings

[Miku the Based]

Aijo Beness is proof white supremacy is archaic idea. But not to say to dissmiss idea off hand, there may be hidden meaning to why people hold such beliefs today. It's important to understand why people uphold such concepts and see the values and tradition they uphold as important to thier cultural identity. Those who do uphold the mantle I believe feel threatened by the cultural zeitegeist of modern neoliberalism and totalitarian social unipolar anglican culture and framework engulfing and threatening thier livelihood within the western hemisphere. Seems to be big thing in Australia, America, and western Europe. The same places that said unipolar order dominate thier lives.

[Ayytaly]

Aijo Beness is proof white supremacy is archaic idea. But not to say to dissmiss idea off hand, there may be hidden meaning to why people hold such beliefs today. It's important to understand why people uphold such concepts and see the values and tradition they uphold as important to thier cultural identity. Those who do uphold the mantle I believe feel threatened by the cultural zeitegeist of modern neoliberalism and totalitarian social unipolar anglican culture and framework engulfing and threatening thier livelihood within the western hemisphere. Seems to be big thing in Australia, America, and western Europe. The same places that said unipolar order dominate thier lives.

Racial Pan-europeanism is essentially this.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Aijo Beness is proof white supremacy is archaic idea. But not to say to dissmiss idea off hand, there may be hidden meaning to why people hold such beliefs today. It's important to understand why people uphold such concepts and see the values and tradition they uphold as important to thier cultural identity. Those who do uphold the mantle I believe feel threatened by the cultural zeitegeist of modern neoliberalism and totalitarian social unipolar anglican culture and framework engulfing and threatening thier livelihood within the western hemisphere. Seems to be big thing in Australia, America, and western Europe. The same places that said unipolar order dominate thier lives.

Racial Pan-europeanism is essentially this.

It's sad that the white nationalist club looks as diverse as the UN in appearance.

[Ayytaly]

Racial Pan-europeanism is essentially this.

It's sad that the white nationalist club looks as diverse as the UN in appearance.

Guess they were right all along. Diversity is NOT a strength.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

It's sad that the white nationalist club looks as diverse as the UN in appearance.

Guess they were right all along. Diversity is NOT a strength.

"We need to stop the darkies. Let's stand united my Maltese brother."