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White Supremacy discussion thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you think white supermascists should be able to express their views?

Yes
529
40%
No
484
37%
Depends
283
21%
Other
25
2%
 
Total votes : 1321

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61244
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:04 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
So if they are of the same religion as you its ok to date someone of a different race? Therefore you don't have a problem with interracial marriage. Your comments are an inherent contradiction.

I have a problem because most of POCs are not really religious or conservative, therefore I am against interracial marriage as all. And also I am against it because I just dislike mixed-race people bruh.
My views can be quite stupid and contradictory from time to time.

If you’re aware that your views are stupid, it’s okay to ask questions and to seek ways to educate yourself. Sure it can be scary, but it doesn’t have to be.
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User avatar
Borderlands of Rojava
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14813
Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:11 pm

Dakini wrote:
Elwher wrote:First - White, Black, Yellow, Christian, Muslim, Atheist Supremacists are all wrong (We all really know that the Irish are the greatest :roll: )

Second - All of them should be allowed to speak their minds, just as we should be allowed to ignore them or respond as we wish.

Third - Silence may mean consent, or it may mean that the silent one has better things to do with their time. I will not criticize someone who thinks a particular belief needs to be challenged, I ask the same consideration for myself if I do not think so.

It is only by listening to ideas that we can decide for ourselves if there is any validity to them. Shutting them down just contributes to the general level of ignorance.

I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were born during a time when Irish people weren't considered white, but rather an inferior Celtic race to be discriminated against.


How do you know he's Irish?
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

User avatar
Xmara
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5373
Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Xmara » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:13 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:
Nakena wrote:
There was less drama and whining in Japan, South Korea or on Taiwan.

A lot of westerners being crybabies about the whole matter likely made it worse.

Can you now see why I included Japanese and Chinese as “cool races”? I didn’t include Koreans just because I personally dislike them bruh- that’s just my personal opinion after all

Define “cool race.” Though I’m not sure you even know what that would be.
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User avatar
Elwher
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9247
Founded: May 24, 2012
Capitalizt

Postby Elwher » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:49 pm

Dakini wrote:
Elwher wrote:First - White, Black, Yellow, Christian, Muslim, Atheist Supremacists are all wrong (We all really know that the Irish are the greatest :roll: )

Second - All of them should be allowed to speak their minds, just as we should be allowed to ignore them or respond as we wish.

Third - Silence may mean consent, or it may mean that the silent one has better things to do with their time. I will not criticize someone who thinks a particular belief needs to be challenged, I ask the same consideration for myself if I do not think so.

It is only by listening to ideas that we can decide for ourselves if there is any validity to them. Shutting them down just contributes to the general level of ignorance.

I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were born during a time when Irish people weren't considered white, but rather an inferior Celtic race to be discriminated against.


Obviously, that is an impossible question to answer with assurance, but I think that I would have. We were discriminated against in Great Britain and solved it by leaving; we were discriminated against in the US and solved it by successfully assimilating. We never attempted to keep those who failed to recognize our obvious superiority from speaking their foolish minds.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26718
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:55 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
So if they are of the same religion as you its ok to date someone of a different race? Therefore you don't have a problem with interracial marriage. Your comments are an inherent contradiction.

I have a problem because most of POCs are not really religious or conservative, therefore I am against interracial marriage as all. And also I am against it because I just dislike mixed-race people bruh.
My views can be quite stupid and contradictory from time to time.

Take a DNA test, there's a better chance than you might think that you're one of those mixed-race people you "just dislike bruh."
Biden-Santos Thought cadre

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:29 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I understand that completely. I want any children I have to be raised Jewish and would be very sad if they left the faith as well.


But you don't seem like a particularly pious guy lumen. Do you mean like you want them to identify with the religious beliefs of Judaism or the culture of the ethnicity?


NSG doesn’t comprehensively display the whole of anyone who posts here. That Lumen’s religious life is very private doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one (I didn’t even know he was any kind of Jewish).
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Dakini
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23085
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Dakini » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Dakini wrote:I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were born during a time when Irish people weren't considered white, but rather an inferior Celtic race to be discriminated against.


How do you know he's Irish?

The flag, the mention of the Irish being the best...

Elwher wrote:
Dakini wrote:I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were born during a time when Irish people weren't considered white, but rather an inferior Celtic race to be discriminated against.


Obviously, that is an impossible question to answer with assurance, but I think that I would have. We were discriminated against in Great Britain and solved it by leaving; we were discriminated against in the US and solved it by successfully assimilating. We never attempted to keep those who failed to recognize our obvious superiority from speaking their foolish minds.

So for starters, lots of Irish people live in Great Britain (where there is still discrimination). Secondly, the Irish got oppressed and somewhat genocided by the English in Ireland, which is more why a significant portion of the population left.

User avatar
Austreylia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 842
Founded: Mar 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Austreylia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:18 pm

Dakini wrote:So for starters, lots of Irish people live in Great Britain (where there is still discrimination).

That's not discrimination against the Irish, that is discrimination against Irish travellers. I have a lot of Irish friends, who also despise Irish travellers.

Unless you've had to deal with them living next to you, destroying your town for about a month before leaving behind scenes of devastation for you to clean up, you won't understand.
...we do a little trolling, it's called we do a little trolling.

User avatar
Austreylia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 842
Founded: Mar 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Austreylia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:20 pm

Poopeyu wrote:WHITE POWER

Summer begins.
...we do a little trolling, it's called we do a little trolling.

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 pm

Austreylia wrote:Summer begins.


Wonderful isn't it?

The bestest time of the year.

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 pm

Poopeyu wrote:WHITE POWER


Nah.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87322
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 pm

Poopeyu wrote:WHITE POWER

no

User avatar
Austreylia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 842
Founded: Mar 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Austreylia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:26 pm

Nakena wrote:Wonderful isn't it?

The bestest time of the year.

It's just hilarious.

I play up a lot of my opinions for laughs, but seeing people come in with flaming-hot takes, throwing slurs around always makes me chuckle.
...we do a little trolling, it's called we do a little trolling.

User avatar
Elwher
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9247
Founded: May 24, 2012
Capitalizt

Postby Elwher » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:28 pm

Dakini wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
How do you know he's Irish?

The flag, the mention of the Irish being the best...

Elwher wrote:
Obviously, that is an impossible question to answer with assurance, but I think that I would have. We were discriminated against in Great Britain and solved it by leaving; we were discriminated against in the US and solved it by successfully assimilating. We never attempted to keep those who failed to recognize our obvious superiority from speaking their foolish minds.

So for starters, lots of Irish people live in Great Britain (where there is still discrimination). Secondly, the Irish got oppressed and somewhat genocided by the English in Ireland, which is more why a significant portion of the population left.


Admittedly, I was not totally clear in my post. I was referring to the fact that the majority of the Irish left Great Britain by forming their own country.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

User avatar
Borderlands of Rojava
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14813
Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:37 pm

Austreylia wrote:
Nakena wrote:Wonderful isn't it?

The bestest time of the year.

It's just hilarious.

I play up a lot of my opinions for laughs, but seeing people come in with flaming-hot takes, throwing slurs around always makes me chuckle.


You mean half the time you've been trolling?
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:44 pm

This isn't even subtle.
So this is a new Congressional Caucus, the "America First Congress", formed by, as of now, 5 House Representatives. Unsurprisingly, they include Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), Louie Gohmert (R-TX) and Paul Gosar (R-A) (shocking that "jewish space lasers" "qanon promoters" and "speak at white nationalist conventions" are all part of the outright nativist club, but we also have the quiet Rep. Barry Moore (R-AL) and totally innocent off all wrongdoing Rep. Matt Gaetz

Now, what do they espouse? Some very interesting things
There is, of course the standard conservative definitely has no racial undertones blathering about voter fraud
The AFC is in support of nationwide systemic electoral reform. Both Democrats and
Republicans have pointed out for years the systemic failures in our election tabulation. A Republic that relies on elections must ensure its elections are fair and transparent. There is a growing consensus that both objectives have failed. Recent election results demonstrate a compromised integrity of our elections and made our election system a subject of global mockery. Across the country federal elections have been undermined by using voting machines that are readily compromised and illegally accessed whereby results appear manipulated, voters are disenfranchised, and faith in our system eroded. Mail-in voting, long recognized as subject to fraud, has become normalized. We will work
towards an end to mail-in voting, implementation of national voter ID and substantive investigations into mass voter fraud perpetrated during the 2020 election.


there's also this, which looks almost like a typical conservative position (until you realize who they're talking about
America was founded on the basis of individual and state sovereignty, to ensure that no free American would be lorded over by a Monarch ever again. Unfortunately, bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. and the elites who control them have risen to form a new oligarchy — one that is far more decadent, corrosive and hostile to the will of the people than the Founders could have ever dreamed of. This is why sovereignty is of paramount importance to the AFC. We will work to divest power from the federal government and give it back to the states and the people to restore the balance of federalism. We believe in, and will fight for, the principles of federalism and decentralization of political power; the government closest to the people is the best equipped to handle their concerns. At the federal level, this means exposing deep state actors, shrinking the regulatory state, and eliminating thousands of regulations and indeed entire bureaucracies.

now let's be clear here- "elites" and "bureaucrats" do not actually mean those words
how an oligarchy is going to be curbed by deregulating everything is not fully clear (how this would benefit anyone except "Woke Corporation", isn't entirely clear either)
it's almost as if they're referring to something entirely different hm, wonder who "the deep state" could be

Silicon Valley tech firms have become the most powerful arbiters of information in the history of mankind. The treasure trove of data they have collected from Americans have given them powers that would make a Soviet dictator blush. We have seen these powers weaponized and
deployed against conservatives in recent years, even as Big Tech firms continue to allow terrorists and pedophiles to organize and publish on their platforms. This represents an egregious offense against the First Amendment and the values enshrined within it. The America First Caucus is calling for a solution that starts with reform of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

so firstly that isn't what Section 230 does (or the first amendment, for that matter)
secondly, notice how the deregulation that they were just espousing have been fully thrown out the window when it comes to the culture war
nobody ever got banned from twitter for wanting lower taxes
way to stick up for conservative principles

and now we get to the fun part
The America First Caucus recognizes that our country is more than a mass of consumers or a series of abstract ideas. America is a nation with a border, and a culture, strengthened by a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions.

that's not a dogwhistle, that's a foghorn

History has shown that societal trust and political unity are threatened when foreign citizens are imported en-masse into a country,

let's take a look at the word choice: "imported en-masse"
for this to be true, there must be someone doing the importing, no? who is it? they'll never tell you, you just have to figure it out from the rest of the right-wing ecosystem, which is eager to let you know
particularly without institutional support for assimilation and an expansive welfare state to bail them out should they fail to contribute positively to the country.
ah yes, tying the welfare state to immigrants
and here i thought the Trump wing was supposed to be "economically populist"
wonder if that was too wide a descriptor and those policies are actually being motivated by something else...nahhhhhhh
While certain economic and financial interest groups benefit immensely from mass immigration, legal as well as illegal, and the aggregate output of the country increases, the reality of large segments of our society as well as the long-term existential future of America as a unique country with a unique culture and a unique identity being put at unnecessary risk is something our leaders can afford to ignore no longer.

earlier: "immigrants don't contribute"
now: "immigrants do contribute but they're bad actually"
never mind the fact that america doesn't actually have a culture, it has a fuckton of subcultures
for some totally unknowable reason, this never gets mentioned
As such, America’s legal immigration system should be curtailed to those that can contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for this nation’s culture and rule of law. America’s borders must be defended, and illegal immigration must be stopped without exception.

"america's borders must be defended"
militarization rhetoric at the border in no-way works towards any negative consequences whatsoever

Moreover, we cannot ignore the impact that mass immigration has on reducing job opportunities and depreciating wages for Americans. Further restricting immigration would ensure that American jobs go to American workers. The econometric evidence and consensus amongst labor economists is that in addition to being a substantial net drain on the public purse, post-1965 immigrants decrease the capital-to-labor ratio within the national economy, thereby causing a massive shift in the gains of the economy from wage earners to the shareholders and
owners of large firms.

(note: the economic consensus is the opposite of this)
but i wonder why they specify post-1965
could it be that there's a change in immigration demographics (and cultural shifts they want to associate with immigrants) that largely hasn't been accepted into the white dominant group and as such, is allowed to suffer rhetorical attacks
hmmmmm

An important distinction between post-1965 immigrants and previous waves of settlers is that previous cohorts were more educated, earned higher wages,

Image

and did not have an expansive welfare state to fall back on when they could not make it in America and thus did not stay in the country at the expense of the native-born.

i would recommend looking into "settlement houses" before making that sort of claim
(i would also note that immigrants, legal or not, are net contributers)
but the point here is that as a rhetorical trick, this works, because they're grouped together immigrants (and by immigrants they mean latinos)with "lazy welfare moochers"

Another important point of note is the many pauses in immigration that have taken place in this country following a large intake of immigrants. These pauses have been absolutely essential in assimilating the new arrivals and weeding out those who could not or refused to abandon their old loyalties and plunge head-first into mainstream American society.

so firstly that's a nonsequitur
but also...notice the term "abandon their old loyalties"
we've never seen that trope used against anyone ever

A measure of a country’s greatness is the value recognized in being a citizen. As such, we cannot tarnish this important designation by rewarding those who failed to follow our laws at the expense of those who have, which is why amnesty must be rejected in all forms. Additionally, we must abolish unnaturalized birthright citizenship, which actively encourages hostile interests to undermine the legitimacy of democratic self-governance by engaging in subversive “birth tourism” and chain migration. Lastly, federally imposed refugee resettlement programs should be rejected due both to disruption to small communities and the corruption rampant within these programs.

so this is where it starts getting really blatant about the conspiracy mongering
and sure, it's tempting to laugh, this is...ridiculous
but they're serious
let's examine this sentence again
"Additionally, we must abolish unnaturalized birthright citizenship, which actively encourages hostile interests to undermine the legitimacy of democratic self-governance by engaging in subversive “birth tourism” and chain migration."
that's right, hostile immigrants are attempting to undermine the self-governance of the people by having children
(if your alarm bells were not going off before, they really should be now)

The America First Caucus will work towards an infrastructure that reflects the architectural, engineering and aesthetic value that befits the progeny of European architecture, whereby public infrastructure must be utilitarian as well as stunningly, classically beautiful, befitting a world power and source of freedom.

i...don't
i don't think i need to explain what's wrong here
but this is the point where the last edges of the mask just sort of collapse and fade into dust
"that befits the progeny of European architecture"
they're just outright saying it
there's no euphemism
and that should be worrying
As the Romans demonstrated with aqueducts, walls and roads, function and beauty are not at odds. Federally funded infrastructure, including roads, buildings, airports, seaports, bridges, should demonstrate a pride of workmanship. A bridge is not merely something to cross from side A to side B, it is a connection among peoples.

now normally, this wouldn't be eyebrow-raising
but with context...well there's a reason every shitty far-right online soapbox is using roman aesthetics
(note for the strawmen: allusions to rome are not automatically signs one is far-right, they must be taken in context)
Infrastructure is one of the few areas where the federal government should exercise its constitutional authority. For decades, America has been sending trillions of dollars out the door to support the infrastructure of other nations—even to countries that hate the United—with nothing to show for it. Simultaneously, our domestic infrastructure is failing, crumbling and
decaying from within. This Caucus will work to direct as much money as possible to our domestic infrastructure needs.

blah blah typical nativism "only america matters" not really noteworthy

Dilapidated roads and bridges should be rebuilt, dams and wastewater plants must be secured, borders secured, drinking water systems improved, amongst other much needed additional investments. The America First Caucus knows that these projects impact the daily lives of
American citizens.

since when were borders infrastructure? since we needed to fearmonger about (brown) immigrants, of course

Whether it is aid for humanitarian or military purposes, sending taxpayer money outside of the nation is generally an unwise undertaking and an entanglement that rarely provides any benefit to our citizens. Often, these funds end up in the wrong hands, are squandered through corruption, or go toward the pet projects of liberal interventionists.

same thing as before-tying aid programs to "undeserving" people (of whom very few are white, hmmm) or ideological opponents

With so many unmet needs in the United States, helping other countries with their infrastructure, their military, their immigration problems and their economies makes no sense.

you'd think during a pandemic, you'd want to...you know, maybe consider that the world is intertwined
but no, for the nativist, no help can ever be given to the foreigner, for that would defeat their ideological purpose

American tax dollars should not go toward teaching gender studies in Pakistan or supporting ideologically subversive non-governmental organizations (NGOs). Taxpayer money should be spent at home, allowing individual Americans to make charitable contributions to those around
the world in need.

if someone could explain what the fuck an "ideologically subversive NGO" is, i'm all ears
i actually have no clue what this is referring to

The America First Caucus believes that the American people are the most kind and charitable in the world, and they would be far better at allocating their own money than having corrupt bureaucrats play around with it.

good, old-fashioned American exceptionalism!
(but it's hitting on the same themes: your government has been taken over by a corrupt cabal of deep state actors who are using your hard work and resources to benefit themselves and people you don't care about)

For far too long, a hawkish neoconservative foreign policy has been the default for the American Right. This has resulted in America being bogged-down in endless conflicts with trillion-dollar price tags in addition to having thousands of American heroes losing their lives as a result.
Meanwhile, our nation’s infrastructure and our border security have been traitorously neglected. Decades in Afghanistan have accomplished little except to enrich defense contractors and empower the military-industrial complex. The people of Afghanistan have endured an endless
parade of violence typically with one side funded by our tax dollars. Regime change operations in Iraq and Libya have proved disastrous, while doing nothing to keep Americans safe. Indeed, after the Obama Administration used our military to topple Libyan President Qadafi, Libya has
turned into a failed state where there are open slave markets, lawlessness and chaos. What was once a functioning state is now a failed state, because of Obama’s intervention. This is not what our military was meant for. The America First Caucus recognizes that America can no longer afford to be the world’s policeman. Instead of endless interventions, bold diplomatic endeavors must be undertaken with countries such as Russia and North Korea to ensure a more peaceful and stable world. America should not be sacrificing blood and treasure while our so-called allies refuse to pull their weight in contributing toward neutralizing threatening actors in the world. America must remain a free
and independent Republic, not a globalist watchdog.

eh, this is more or less correct
(minor gripe with the last sentence, that's not what "globalist" means, and the phrase "independent republic" goes back to the same themes of isolationism they've been promoting throughout the piece)

Ever since the outbreak of the novel coronavirus originating from China and the first known case of coronavirus in the United States on Jan 21, 2020, the United States government and health organizations issued guidelines and policies that would hinder and destroy the American
economy in many ways. These guidelines, which includes mask mandates and social distancing rules, are socially conditioning the culture and behavior of Americans. Additionally, to truly enforce social distancing and hopefully diminish the spread of the disease, many state
governors have decided to lockdown their states, meaning that businesses deemed ‘nonessential’ are not allowed to open and provide service. Together, these policies and guidelines have ruined many businesses to bankruptcy such that many Americans are left unemployed and potentially destitute. Social problems, including suicide and divorce, have escalated because state governors, which the encouragement of the CDC, have locked down families. At the time the virus landed in the United States, there was not a lot known about the new disease.
Now, a year later, there is much research and data. It is essential to discontinue the lockdowns, remove capacity restrictions and allow businesses to continue operations. Now that the damage is done, many Americans are in need of assistance to pay their bills: the government should thus effectively provide direct financial support to improve the livelihood of Americans. The America First Caucus will work to make
sure we do not overreact to a pandemic in this same way again.

this is batshit and i don't think i need to explain why it's wrong
perhaps the only thing in there approaching reality is "the government should provide direct financial support to americans"

Ever since the end of the Second World War, the sine qua non of being a conservative has been to support unrestricted international trade. The main intellectual justification of this has been The Theory of Comparative Advantage, which was first proposed by David Ricardo over two
centuries ago. One key flaw that has been overlooked by establishment Republicans and Democrats alike is that the theory assumes negligible movement of capital and labor across borders. The absence of such a condition today, combined with the shift in commercial priorities from productivity and innovation to cost cutting, has meant that free international trade simply serves to homogenize living standards around the world. It should hardly come as a surprise that the transfer of wealth to millions in the Western Pacific has resulted in millions being kicked
out of the middle class in the North Atlantic. Free trade accomplishes many of the same nefarious economic goals that mass immigration
does. Essentially, it allows capital to search for markets with the lowest capital-to-labor ratios that will allow it in, which in turn allows this capital to exact higher returns by exploiting the relative excess of labor that exist in the third world, transforming these countries into essentially industrial plantations run by semi-slaves. At the same time, workers in capital-exporting countries such as America have less bargaining power because of the decrease in capital, which puts massive downward pressure on their wages and benefits, assuming they even manage to hold on to their jobs. Not only is this devastating to their standard of living, but the lack of meaningful work in the production of tangible goods serves to eviscerate any sense of dignity and worth these workers and their families had, resulting in the myriad of social ills we
see in rural America today, such as the opioid epidemic. There are also non-economic considerations that have been neglected in the debate on trade, namely the issue of national security. In such a globalized economic system, supply chains for even the most basic and essential goods are spread to the four corners of the globe. This only makes sense from a purely short-term monetary point of view. While this form of production might be profitable to specific firms in the short-run, it is an unmitigated disaster to the long-term interests of many countries, including our own. Any hiccup in the global supply chain can result in massive supply shocks around the world, a reality that was glaringly exposed during the COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns. The fact that any section of our food and medical supply chains are located in China, our greatest geopolitical adversary, would have been considered treasonous not too long ago. Politicians on both sides of the aisle have outsourced America’s manufacturing for decades, offshoring jobs, deflating wages and destroying communities, particularly in rural America. Under these bad ‘free trade’ deals, other countries have also placed strict restrictions on U.S. exports entering their borders. The America First Caucus believes it is time to stop worshipping at the altar of idealized free trade, and actually deliver for American workers. We call for a new approach to trade that prioritizes American workers, treats U.S. exporters more fairly, imposes tariffs and import restrictions where necessary to protect our vital industries, and holds malevolent state actors—especially China—accountable for violating our trade laws on issues ranging from intellectual property left to forced technology transfers. Every new free trade agreement considered by Congress should be thoroughly assessed in order to ensure it benefits our country’s manufacturers and workers. We also cannot forget that jobs are personal—they impact individuals and families in unique and specific ways. Pretending that rising GDP or faster access to higher-quality products is always better than meaningful work for American workers and their families is a betrayal of our values and demonstrates complete ignorance of long-term consequences.

this is also, broadly speaking, correct (though i take issue with the sentence "goal of mass immigration")

Conservation of the nation we live in is an important aspect of American nationalism. Since the 1980s, climate change, formerly known as global warming, has become a hot button political issue. The America First Caucus supports conservation of the environment and our national
lands for the benefit of our nation. Having said that, we should not cripple our country’s manufacturing sector through agreements such as the Paris Climate Accords. We oppose the globalist, vague, and irrelevant policies being pushed under the guise of combating climate change. If Americans want to conserve the environment, they should push for better waste management and other substantive remedies, not wasteful social justice programs like the Green New Deal.

this is meaningless virtue-signalling-or at at least it is on its face
the obvious rebuttal is "if we don't take drastic measures-far more so than the measly ones promoted here-we will die
but let's look at a few choice words
"globalist", "social justice"
they're trying the work we actually need to vague ideological opponents (and i'm pretty sure "globalist" has been code for "the jews" since forever)

Environmentalism also includes proper allocation of resources. Fishermen and hunters have legitimate, and culturally deep, ties to the land. Gold mines, copper mines and oil wells contribute to our modern lifestyle. All of these are to be balanced with preserving opportunities
for hiking, camping and enjoying the visual beauty of our lands. On federal lands where the impact on local farmers and ranchers would be minimal, rewilding initiatives, including megafauna reintroductions, should also be explored, creating new opportunities for business
and tourism

"we must protect the lands, as long as it doesn't inconvenience anyone doing these culturally approved activities"
this is obviously incoherent

While it is vital to preserve our environment, we should not use it as an impetus to destroy the energy industry that hires millions of hard-working Americans. Our elected officials should stand proudly with America’s struggling coal country against job-killing regulations, and welcome the ongoing shift towards clean coal.

note: "Clean coal" is actually more of a pollutant than normal coal
but this section is because for the 21st Century American Nativist, no ground can be ceded on the culture war
for those in the know, coal mining employment has been decreasing practically everywhere, and companies are continuously declaring bankruptcy. as an economic strategy, they might as well come out in defense of Big Horse. But this is not an economic issue-it is a cultural one. And for the American Nativist, the culture war will always take priority, it is their raison d'être and the area from which their emotional and electoral strength is drawn. all else is window dressing

In addition, the construction of the Keystone XL and Dakota Access oil pipelines will promote North American energy independence and allow the United States to more easily extricate itself from the conflicts of the Middle East. Moreover, hydraulic fracking technology, when used appropriately, can provide more affordable oil and gas for Americans, and therefore any attempts to ban this practice on a national level should be resisted.

ah, now it's "North American" energy independence
and here i thought we were trying to protect the environment
almost like the principles are in service of something else...our never-ending culture war

The America First Caucus supports innovation in green energy, such as in the form of nuclear energy. However, it is important to closely scrutinize and reduce taxpayer subsidies for wasteful green energy projects that fail to deliver the required return on investment for the
American people.

I wonder why they only specified nuclear energy
could there possibly be an aversion to, say, wind power, among certain hyper-conservative members of the american right?

Since the 1940s, the American dollar has been the global reserve currency, a position which has greatly benefitted the real American economy by strengthening the purchasing power of wages and savings. Unfortunately, the strength of America’s monetary position has been under attack for decades by Keynesian economists domestically, and by globalist institutions looking to enhance China’s position on the global stage. We must oppose international currency manipulation and its detrimental long-term impacts for the American economy and U.S. dollar.
We must protect the rights of Americans to best position themselves for a changing economy by promoting the development of cryptocurrency companies domestically, and defend the rights of Americans to hold private stores of wealth – including gold, silver, and other blockchain-based
currencies like Bitcoin.

ahahahhahahahahaahhahahaahhaahahhahaahaahaa

i can't even analyze this i'm sorry
it's just so far divorced from anything approaching any understanding of economics ever

The 20th Century saw the decline in many vital American institutions. None has been more damaging to the United States than our education system. The increased consolidation of educational spending came with it the ability for powerful left-wing special interest groups to
redirect the focus away from preparing future generations of national talent [box] all hail the capitalist machine, sacrifice your children to the blood thresher, question nothing
[box]
to progessive indoctrination and enrichment of an out-of-control elite oligarchy.

who is this "elite oligarchy?" how are they being enriched? we don't know
what we do know is that schools teaching about things like "slavery" and "american failures" is bad and wrong unless they are shown in the specific context of america overcoming those failures (and probably only from the white point of view, if i had to guess)

Not since the fall of the Soviet Union has America faced a civilizational challenge from another state actor quite like the modern Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

"civilizational challenge"
that reminds me of Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, am i the only one
Image

While the liberalization of the Chinese government in the 90’s and early 2000s gave hope that the CCP was moving in the direction of being a peaceful and beneficial actor on the world stage, the Xi-era has been one defined by the dangerous resurrection of Neo-Maoist thinking.

"we don't know what words mean, but anti-communist fearmongering works anyway"

Unfortunately, American corporations – following federal policies that have actively incentivized investment outside of the US – have chosen to place short-term financial interests at the expense of basic human decency. In doing so, we must confront a dangerous new reality where much of America’s soft power is actively siding with an increasingly hostile-global actor, at the same time America’s military has been mismanaged into overextending itself in the sands of the Middle East.

i realize that the Rise of China is like a terrifying reality for pretty much everyone but just saying "china bad and we must confront them" is not going to do anything to help
We must also check against any globalist institutions that increasingly laud the authoritarian nature of the CCP as a model for future governance, and not a terrifying rejection of civilized society. Furthermore, we understand that the rise of China means that the United States must be prepared militarily and economically to compete with a peer-competitor.

what is "civilized?" only we get to decide! (please don't apply the metrics we use for calling china uncivilized to any point of america in the past that would be unamerican and ideologically subversive)


now this is very clumsy, because it is written by idiots, who have to play into specific political realities and culture war gripes
but i think it does lean heavily into at least some elements of fascism
how widespread it is remains to be seen, and this is in no way representative of the entire republican party
and for what it's worth, not every hard-righter in the party goes this far
but the presence is still there
Last edited by Kowani on Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:25 pm

The "post 1965 immigration" line struck me. It was 1965 when immigration was really opened up to people from outside northern Europe. Not just Africans and Asians but even Southern and Eastern Europeans. If we went back to how immigration was regulated before 1965, almost all of our immigrants from outside the western hemisphere would come from the UK or nordic countries. Not only no more African immigration or middle eastern immigration. Little immigration even fron perfectly stable countries in southern or eastern Europe either.

Reminds me of Trump's "why don't we take people in from Norway" line.
Last edited by Borderlands of Rojava on Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Suriyanakhon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Suriyanakhon » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:25 pm

Kowani wrote:
The America First Caucus recognizes that our country is more than a mass of consumers or a series of abstract ideas. America is a nation with a border, and a culture, strengthened by a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions.

that's not a dogwhistle, that's a foghorn


Why do they have to drag the Anglo-Saxons through the mud like this?
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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
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Postby Fahran » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:10 am

Suriyanakhon wrote:Why do they have to drag the Anglo-Saxons through the mud like this?

Because they're not as cool as the Visigoths.

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Suriyanakhon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am

Fahran wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:Why do they have to drag the Anglo-Saxons through the mud like this?

Because they're not as cool as the Visigoths.


They're both nothing compared to the Thad Romano-Britons though.
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Kubra
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:28 am

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Kowani wrote:
The America First Caucus recognizes that our country is more than a mass of consumers or a series of abstract ideas. America is a nation with a border, and a culture, strengthened by a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions.

that's not a dogwhistle, that's a foghorn


Why do they have to drag the Anglo-Saxons through the mud like this?
reject Anglo-Saxon, embrace anglo-norman
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
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Nevertopia
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Founded: May 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nevertopia » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:30 am

watching this thread for the last day or so ive come to realize how insecure white supremacists are. It really is the mentality of an insecure bully who needs to bring others down so they can feel better about themselves. Its not only because theyre ignorant, its also because theyre pathetic.
So the CCP won't let me be or let me be me so let me see, they tried to shut me down on CBC but it feels so empty without me.
Communism has failed every time its been tried.
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Black Lives Matter

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Kubra
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Founded: Apr 15, 2006
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Postby Kubra » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:34 am

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Fahran wrote:Because they're not as cool as the Visigoths.


They're both nothing compared to the Thad Romano-Britons though.
who, the Welsh?
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Suriyanakhon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:37 am

Kubra wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:
They're both nothing compared to the Thad Romano-Britons though.
who, the Welsh?


That would be pretty anachronistic.
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East Blepia
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Founded: Jan 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby East Blepia » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:04 am

The America First Caucus recognizes that our country is more than a mass of consumers or a series of abstract ideas. America is a nation with a border, and a culture, strengthened by a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions.

that's not a dogwhistle, that's a foghorn
Yes. We are racists. Deal with it. I am fed up with having to waltz around and swing up and down about an integral part of my beliefs, and I imagine they are too. Imagine if the Left faced such a restraint. When arguing for gay marriage, abortion &c., you cannot mention the concept of individual liberty. You just cannot. It is considered totally obscene by mainstream society, so much so that anyone even suspected of believing it is susceptible to be fired from his job, to lose friends and family, and if he is a politician to have his political career come to an end. You have to tip-toe around it, saying things like 'God gave us free will' and generally remaining within a right-wing cultural framework as a result of the massive advantage this provides to the right. A sturdy argument cannot be made against the wave of legal immigration that exists now from Mexico, India, Africa &c. without racism. They are immigrants, yes, and foreign. So what? They will assimilate just like the Polish, Italians, Greeks &c. did when they were admitted. And of course, since they are educated, they are just as good as every other American. Most people on the right know this is mumbo-jumbo. but because of the great social pressure exerted against racism (which indeed can only be sustained by their continued abstention from public racism), they cannot actually make this argument, which if it were ever to be made publicly effectively represents an ass-whooping to the capitalists and globalists who promote mass immigration.
Last edited by East Blepia on Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, 10 years in Syria, constant brinksmanship with Iran, $230 billion[1] and counting in military and economic aid to a first-world country, and the agitation of Islamic extremism[2] causing tens of thousands of civilian deaths is not enough. America MUST do more for Israel. If you ask what we get in exchange, you are an anti-semite.

1. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf "As of March 2020, in 2018 U.S. dollars (inflation-adjusted), total U.S.
aid to Israel... is $236 billion."

2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver "Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple...You attacked us in Palestine...the degree of American support for Israel"

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