White Supremacy discussion thread

[Tsaivao]

Both. More respect for minorities, more money for Europe.

WARNING! CONTROVERSIAL OPINION!
Illegal immigrants should be sent back or there should at least be a limit on how many can enter. Once a year multiple immigrants could apply for studying or working (could move with families if allowed) in Europe and be accepted.
Europe is currently overrun by immigrants. I do not hate immigrants, but because there are so many, Europe has too many Ghettos.

Illegal immigration is a completely different issue from racial supremacy. What's unfortunate is that the latter justifies their position with the former. I'm actually fairly neutral on this specific topic, but I do think that imprisoning illegal immigrants or deporting them is too far.

[Salus Maior]

That is utterly impossible short of one completely giving up their position to the other.

This is all very naïve.

Keyword bridging the gap in the sense that we get one step closer to understanding each other, rather than solving all problems.

There's nothing worth understanding or humoring when it comes to racial supremacy ideas.

And I say this as someone who's studied this sort of thing. It's all based on bullshit and esteem issues on a fundamental level, to even entertain the idea that there might be something "worthwhile" within this sort of thinking is to throw the victims of these ideologies under the bus.

[Cartheen]

How is this harassment? It's certainly hate speech, but who are they harassing? Unless they are repeatedly yelling this at someone, and continue when asked to stop, it's not harassment.

I dunno, they could be harassing black people, as mentioned right there as the very first word of the sentence.

If I were to say, out of context, "I wish that Cartheen would kill himself," then would you consider that harassment? A mod would be on my ass in a heartbeat. (Note to aforementioned mod: This is purely demonstrational, I DO NOT actually want Cartheen, or anyone, to kill themselves)

I would argue that "Blacks should die" and "I wish that blacks would die" are on the same level, as both request the intent for blacks to die. I see absolutely no reason why those statements cannot both be considered harassment.

I do not think "I wish that Cartheen would kill himself," would qualify as harassment, no. It would only qualify as harassment if you repeatedly told me to kill myself (e.g, "Cartheen, kill yourself") and continued after requested to stop. The only reason moderators would remove the comment is because this site is not government run, and is therefore not prohibited from enforcing it's own rules regarding speech.

I agree that "Blacks should die" and "I wish that blacks would die" are on the same level, because neither of them qualify as harassment. The difference between that and harassment is that in harassment there is use of aggressive pressure, intimidation and annoyance directed at someone.

It would be harassment if you repeatedly told someone to kill themselves. It would not be harassment if you said you wished they did

[Mannixa Prime]

The spectre of “white supremacy”, fascism, and National Socialism only exist to distract progressives and leftists from the two issues that matter, climate change and wealth inequality.

People should be focusing on the evils of neoliberalism and capitalism ( not to mention Abrahamic cults) instead of 20th century ideologies that have no mainstream or institutional support.

Poland and Hungary are becoming increasingly far-right, China is ruled by a genocidal fascist dictatorship, North Korea literally teaches its kids that Koreans are purer than every other race on earth, and the US's last president was a racist neoliberal who literally fucking pandered to actual fascists like Spencer and the people behind Unite the Right. Hell, the Republican party is replacing their corporate backers, the group you'd expect them to support, with racists. Like, actual racists.

Yeah, "no mainstream or institutional support" my ass.

Poland and Hungary are motivated by religion not race
China is a corporate run dictatorship, money defines them not race
North Korea is a cartoon villian of a nation
Trump is a Zionist neoliberal who supports capitalism

Fuck why do I even bother lmfao

[Senkaku]

Lol no.

Then what is your solution, because from the looks of things you are saying and pointing out lots of problems with having a free and liberal country, with free speech.

I know you've been taught to implicitly associate "censorship" with, like, black vans showing up in the middle of the night and people being dragged off to gulags for writing an op-ed, but it's nothing so heavy-handed or ridiculous. Germany literally censors expressions of Nazism, and you'd hardly call them a totalitarian hellhole. And it may be hard to hear this, but the US does in fact already engage in political censorship and the suppression of political speech, even if we like to pretend we don't.

[Vorausen]

Keyword bridging the gap in the sense that we get one step closer to understanding each other, rather than solving all problems.

Believe me, I understand what a white supremacist is. I don't need anyone with flowery promises and touting free speech to tell me otherwise. I want nothing to do with them.

Nor do I want you to associate yourself with them. Your life your choices.

Keyword bridging the gap in the sense that we get one step closer to understanding each other, rather than solving all problems.

How? How do you think that is achieved?

If at least one person can have a civil conservation with a white supremacist and both parties can get their idea across without causing violence or a big mess then that is getting one step closer. Understanding why someone believes something and agreeing with them are two different things. Of course, that is your choice whether or not your that one person. Like I said I don't control you.

[Tsaivao]

I dunno, they could be harassing black people, as mentioned right there as the very first word of the sentence.

If I were to say, out of context, "I wish that Cartheen would kill himself," then would you consider that harassment? A mod would be on my ass in a heartbeat. (Note to aforementioned mod: This is purely demonstrational, I DO NOT actually want Cartheen, or anyone, to kill themselves)

I would argue that "Blacks should die" and "I wish that blacks would die" are on the same level, as both request the intent for blacks to die. I see absolutely no reason why those statements cannot both be considered harassment.

I do not think "I wish that Cartheen would kill himself," would qualify as harassment, no. It would only qualify as harassment if you repeatedly told me to kill myself (e.g, "Cartheen, kill yourself") and continued after requested to stop. The only reason moderators would remove the comment is because this site is not government run, and is therefore not prohibited from enforcing it's own rules regarding speech.

I agree that "Blacks should die" and "I wish that blacks would die" are on the same level, because neither of them qualify as harassment. The difference between that and harassment is that in harassment there is use of aggressive pressure, intimidation and annoyance directed at someone.

It would be harassment if you repeatedly told someone to kill themselves. It would not be harassment if you said you wished they did

Ohhh, I get it. You think it's okay so long as you don't do it more than once...

I'm sorry sir, but that's not how the real world works.

[Cartheen]

Which is why you only silence people who harass and threaten violence instead of silencing everyone with these beliefs.

Well, anyone with thee belief believe that non-whites are stupid, etc. so there really isn't any choice, we need to shut them all down.

I don't see anything wrong with them being allowed to believe or express these ideas so long as they do not harass and threaten violence against people or groups they dislike.

[Senkaku]

Poland and Hungary are becoming increasingly far-right, China is ruled by a genocidal fascist dictatorship, North Korea literally teaches its kids that Koreans are purer than every other race on earth, and the US's last president was a racist neoliberal who literally fucking pandered to actual fascists like Spencer and the people behind Unite the Right. Hell, the Republican party is replacing their corporate backers, the group you'd expect them to support, with racists. Like, actual racists.

Yeah, "no mainstream or institutional support" my ass.

Poland and Hungary are motivated by religion not race
China is a corporate run dictatorship, money defines them not race
North Korea is a cartoon villian of a nation
Trump is a Zionist neoliberal who supports capitalism

Fuck why do I even bother lmfao

Leaving race out of your analysis of capitalism seems like a preeeeetty major analytical weak point? Particularly in the US and the Americas?

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Well, neither of us really have any evidence, as it is based on a theory, so let’s just agree to disagree, since that’s the only thing we can do.

There are vast heaps and mountains of evidence, which Kowani has been trying to wave in front of you and which you are apparently uninterested in.

Effective, but not good, if we want to distance ourselves from the Nazis, then we shouldn’t act like them.

Suppressing speech is not and will never be equivalent to genocide. Nazis use forks and knives, too, are you going to just rip into the next steak you eat with your bare hands? News flash: all states suppress certain types of speech. Selective freedom of expression is not the key distinction between Nazis and non-Nazis.

It’s not evidence, it’s merely just opinions.
Also, I’m not from the states.

[Atheris]

Poland and Hungary are becoming increasingly far-right, China is ruled by a genocidal fascist dictatorship, North Korea literally teaches its kids that Koreans are purer than every other race on earth, and the US's last president was a racist neoliberal who literally fucking pandered to actual fascists like Spencer and the people behind Unite the Right. Hell, the Republican party is replacing their corporate backers, the group you'd expect them to support, with racists. Like, actual racists.

Yeah, "no mainstream or institutional support" my ass.

Poland and Hungary are motivated by religion not race
China is a corporate run dictatorship, money defines them not race
North Korea is a cartoon villian of a nation
Trump is a Zionist neoliberal who supports capitalism

Fuck why do I even bother lmfao

1. See "clerical fascism".
2. China is not a corporatocracy, it is corporatist. It fits the definition of fascism, and yes, the Chinese definition of "race" has a significant factor on its genocides against Uyghurs and Tibetans and its Sinicization of Mongols and Manchus. The PRC, for all intents and purposes, feels like the Han race (or the ethnic group that you probably think of when you hear "Chinese") is culturally superior to Uyghurs, Tibetans, Mongols, and Manchus.
3. Cool motive. Still fascism.
4. Yes? That doesn't change anything.

[Vorausen]

Then what is your solution, because from the looks of things you are saying and pointing out lots of problems with having a free and liberal country, with free speech.

I know you've been taught to implicitly associate "censorship" with, like, black vans showing up in the middle of the night and people being dragged off to gulags for writing an op-ed, but it's nothing so heavy-handed or ridiculous. Germany literally censors expressions of Nazism, and you'd hardly call them a totalitarian hellhole. And it may be hard to hear this, but the US does in fact already engage in political censorship and the suppression of political speech, even if we like to pretend we don't.

Would you consider a private website banning someone for their views political censorship?

[Mannixa Prime]

Poland and Hungary are motivated by religion not race
China is a corporate run dictatorship, money defines them not race
North Korea is a cartoon villian of a nation
Trump is a Zionist neoliberal who supports capitalism

Fuck why do I even bother lmfao

Leaving race out of your analysis of capitalism seems like a preeeeetty major analytical weak point? Particularly in the US and the Americas?

It may be a weak point if your living in another reality

Capitalism and Third Postionist ideologies are like oil and water

America has a classist problem not a racist problem

[Greater Miami Shores]

I know you've been taught to implicitly associate "censorship" with, like, black vans showing up in the middle of the night and people being dragged off to gulags for writing an op-ed, but it's nothing so heavy-handed or ridiculous. Germany literally censors expressions of Nazism, and you'd hardly call them a totalitarian hellhole. And it may be hard to hear this, but the US does in fact already engage in political censorship and the suppression of political speech, even if we like to pretend we don't.

Would you consider a private website banning someone for their views political censorship?

I would and do.

[Salus Maior]

America has a classist problem not a racist problem

It has both, actually.

[Tsaivao]

I know you've been taught to implicitly associate "censorship" with, like, black vans showing up in the middle of the night and people being dragged off to gulags for writing an op-ed, but it's nothing so heavy-handed or ridiculous. Germany literally censors expressions of Nazism, and you'd hardly call them a totalitarian hellhole. And it may be hard to hear this, but the US does in fact already engage in political censorship and the suppression of political speech, even if we like to pretend we don't.

Would you consider a private website banning someone for their views political censorship?

Yes, and I would consider that perfectly fine.

[Mannixa Prime]

Poland and Hungary are motivated by religion not race
China is a corporate run dictatorship, money defines them not race
North Korea is a cartoon villian of a nation
Trump is a Zionist neoliberal who supports capitalism

Fuck why do I even bother lmfao

1. See "clerical fascism".
2. China is not a corporatocracy, it is corporatist. It fits the definition of fascism, and yes, the Chinese definition of "race" has a significant factor on its genocides against Uyghurs and Tibetans and its Sinicization of Mongols and Manchus. The PRC, for all intents and purposes, feels like the Han race (or the ethnic group that you probably think of when you hear "Chinese") is culturally superior to Uyghurs, Tibetans, Mongols, and Manchus.
3. Cool motive. Still fascism.
4. Yes? That doesn't change anything.

Wow

[Kowani]

Well, anyone with thee belief believe that non-whites are stupid, etc. so there really isn't any choice, we need to shut them all down.

I don't see anything wrong with them being allowed to believe or express these ideas so long as they do not harass and threaten violence against people or groups they dislike.

“There’s nothing wrong with using dehumanizing rhetoric and advocating violence bro”
“This has no consequences whatsoever!”

Fucking lol

There are vast heaps and mountains of evidence, which Kowani has been trying to wave in front of you and which you are apparently uninterested in.

Suppressing speech is not and will never be equivalent to genocide. Nazis use forks and knives, too, are you going to just rip into the next steak you eat with your bare hands? News flash: all states suppress certain types of speech. Selective freedom of expression is not the key distinction between Nazis and non-Nazis.

It’s not evidence, it’s merely just opinions.
Also, I’m not from the states.

>tfw peer reviewed published studies are “merely just opinions”

Look I know people we live in the age of alternative facts but this is just sad

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Believe me, I understand what a white supremacist is. I don't need anyone with flowery promises and touting free speech to tell me otherwise. I want nothing to do with them.

Nor do I want you to associate yourself with them. Your life your choices.

How? How do you think that is achieved?

If at least one person can have a civil conservation with a white supremacist and both parties can get their idea across without causing violence or a big mess then that is getting one step closer. Understanding why someone believes something and agreeing with them are two different things. Of course, that is your choice whether or not your that one person. Like I said I don't control you.

I know their reasoning. It is some f the worst lies and pile of rubbish I've ever heard. 'It's because whites are superior'.

[Cartheen]

I do not think "I wish that Cartheen would kill himself," would qualify as harassment, no. It would only qualify as harassment if you repeatedly told me to kill myself (e.g, "Cartheen, kill yourself") and continued after requested to stop. The only reason moderators would remove the comment is because this site is not government run, and is therefore not prohibited from enforcing it's own rules regarding speech.

I agree that "Blacks should die" and "I wish that blacks would die" are on the same level, because neither of them qualify as harassment. The difference between that and harassment is that in harassment there is use of aggressive pressure, intimidation and annoyance directed at someone.

It would be harassment if you repeatedly told someone to kill themselves. It would not be harassment if you said you wished they did

Ohhh, I get it. You think it's okay so long as you don't do it more than once...

I'm sorry sir, but that's not how the real world works.

this is a blatant strawman of my argument.

Harassment is an aggressive attempt to irritate or inconvenience someone. "I don't like [group]/[group] is inferior" is not harassment, "HEY YOU'RE PART OF [GROUP] KILL YOURSELF!" is.

[The New California Republic]

How? How do you think that is achieved?

If at least one person can have a civil conservation with a white supremacist [...]

*conversation.

[...] and both parties can get their idea across without causing violence or a big mess then that is getting one step closer. Understanding why someone believes something and agreeing with them are two different things.

Both positions are intractable, they are mutually exclusive. Sorry man but it's sheer fantasy to think that they'll get to that position without one or the other reneging on their position in some manner.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Ohhh, I get it. You think it's okay so long as you don't do it more than once...

I'm sorry sir, but that's not how the real world works.

this is a blatant strawman of my argument.

Harassment is an aggressive attempt to irritate or inconvenience someone. "I don't like [group]/[group] is inferior" is not harassment, "HEY YOU'RE PART OF [GROUP] KILL YOURSELF!" is.

They're saying "HEY YOU'RE PART OF [GROUP] I'LL KILL YOU!"

[Countesia]

If White people are so great why does our food suck, I am excluding hispanic and lebanese people from this generalisation though.

[Ladinacem Andia]

But are we going to try and insist that black supremacists are as bad as white supremacists when one literally wants to go back to enslaving the other?

(edit mine)
Yes. Racial supremacy is as evil as it gets, and the dogma of both types you mention remains larger similar. I suggest you read up on groups like the Nuwaubian Nation (whose leader was a child molester), who preach that the "white man" is the devil, that white people are genetically inferior, and that their skin color is a result of leprosy. I have included a passage below:

The Caucasian has not been chosen to lead the world. They lack true emotions in their creation. We never intended them to be peaceful. They were bred to be killers, with low reproduction levels and a short life span. What you call Negroid was to live 1,000 years each and the other humans 120 years. But the warrior seed of Caucasians is only 60 years old. They were only created to fight other invading races, to protect the God race Negroids. But they went insane, lost control when they were left unattended. They were never to taste blood. They did, and their true nature came out. … Because their reproduction levels were cut short, their sexual organs were made the smallest so that the female of their race will want to breed with Negroids to breed themselves out of existence after 6,000 years. It took 600 years to breed them, part man and part beast.

Or groups like NOI, whose retoric at least indirectly caused the murder of one police officer and the injury of another at the Capitol. Black supremacy is just as dangerous, violent, and condemnable as white supremacy. That's a simple fact. Any views to the contrary show the true racial beliefs one holds. The inverse, of course, is also true. Racial supremacy in any form is one of the purest forms of evil, and an attempt to sort them by "one is worse" catagories only serves a racist purpose, even if it is not one's intention to do so.

[Senkaku]

There are vast heaps and mountains of evidence, which Kowani has been trying to wave in front of you and which you are apparently uninterested in.

It’s not evidence, it’s merely just opinions.

Classic!