Why Utah is making men pay women's pregnancy costs

[Punished UMN]

Don't have sex, completely solves your problem.

Giving men the rights we give women would solve it too. But no, we can't do that. How will those poor oppressed women get knocked up by athletes and never work another day?

There's a key action-consequence relationship you're missing. The woman has to be knocked up by somebody, that means that someone is knocking them up. If you're unwilling to support the child you fathered, why should my tax dollars have to pay CPS to take them in because you're a deadbeat dad? Your argument works equally against you. Not wanting to be responsible for your actions doesn't make you non-responsible for your actions.

[Ifreann]

Don't have sex, completely solves your problem.

Giving men the rights we give women would solve it too. But no, we can't do that. How will those poor oppressed women get knocked up by athletes and never work another day?

What you're describing is an incel delusion.

[The Nihilistic view]

Giving men the rights we give women would solve it too. But no, we can't do that. How will those poor oppressed women get knocked up by athletes and never work another day?

There's a key action-consequence relationship you're missing. The woman has to be knocked up by somebody, that means that someone is knocking them up. If you're unwilling to support the child you fathered, why should my tax dollars have to pay CPS to take them in because you're a deadbeat dad? Your argument works equally against you. Not wanting to be responsible for your actions doesn't make you non-responsible for your actions.

Don't forget the most important thing. Willfully forgetting that there is a 3rd party in all this that has needs and can't take care of themselves.

[Punished UMN]

There's a key action-consequence relationship you're missing. The woman has to be knocked up by somebody, that means that someone is knocking them up. If you're unwilling to support the child you fathered, why should my tax dollars have to pay CPS to take them in because you're a deadbeat dad? Your argument works equally against you. Not wanting to be responsible for your actions doesn't make you non-responsible for your actions.

Don't forget the most important thing. Willfully forgetting that there is a 3rd party in all this that has needs and can't take care of themselves.

Exactly.

[Silaportem]

I am...not sure what I think about this. My initial reaction was it is better than nothing, but then I wondered about men who do not want to be a father while the mother is unwilling to have an abortion.

That's actually a really good point, and now I'm rethinking my views on this issue.

[The Republic of Fore]

Yup because condoms are magic bullet-proof vests that can't possibly break or have holes poked in them. She can have an abortion or give the kid up for adoption. So why is everyone screaming bloody murder at the thought of men getting the same chance to walk away? Because a few more women might have to actually be strong and independent instead of just claiming to be?

I keep telling you that I don't care if you want to disclaim responsibility for a child you fathered, provided that the child's needs are being met by someone, and every time I do you respond with anger towards the hypothetical woman you hypothetically had sex with. The only person even close to screaming bloody murder here is you.

I'm just saying the mother should take responsibility but everyone is insisting that we can't do that.

[Genivaria]

I keep telling you that I don't care if you want to disclaim responsibility for a child you fathered, provided that the child's needs are being met by someone, and every time I do you respond with anger towards the hypothetical woman you hypothetically had sex with. The only person even close to screaming bloody murder here is you.

I'm just saying the mother should take responsibility but everyone is insisting that we can't do that.

Literally noone has said this, you however want to avoid all responsibility in the situation.
You're the only one trying to dodge responsibility.

[Punished UMN]

I keep telling you that I don't care if you want to disclaim responsibility for a child you fathered, provided that the child's needs are being met by someone, and every time I do you respond with anger towards the hypothetical woman you hypothetically had sex with. The only person even close to screaming bloody murder here is you.

I'm just saying the mother should take responsibility but everyone is insisting that we can't do that.

No you're not, you're saying fathers have no responsibility for their actions. Women cannot astrally project their cooch around your dick in the middle of the night, they're not succubuses, if one gets pregnant, it's because someone got them pregnant. Pregnancy is not unilateral.

[The Republic of Fore]

Giving men the rights we give women would solve it too. But no, we can't do that. How will those poor oppressed women get knocked up by athletes and never work another day?

What you're describing is an incel delusion.

What I'm describing is an actual thing that happens. Please, explain to me how two children, one of whom isn't even in school have needs that total the average annual salary of an NFL player.
https://sandrarose.com/2018/08/blake-gr ... d-support/

[Ors Might]

Giving men the rights we give women would solve it too. But no, we can't do that. How will those poor oppressed women get knocked up by athletes and never work another day?

There's a key action-consequence relationship you're missing. The woman has to be knocked up by somebody, that means that someone is knocking them up. If you're unwilling to support the child you fathered, why should my tax dollars have to pay CPS to take them in because you're a deadbeat dad? Your argument works equally against you. Not wanting to be responsible for your actions doesn't make you non-responsible for your actions.

To be fair, it’s not as if though renouncing both your parental obligations and rights is any more extreme than causing the child’s cessation of existence via abortion. Not to mention that there are instances where a woman can revoke both her and the father’s custody over the child, regardless if the father actually wants to take care of the kid. What Fore is asking for isn’t all that extreme in comparison to what’s currently allowed.

[The Republic of Fore]

I'm just saying the mother should take responsibility but everyone is insisting that we can't do that.

Literally noone has said this, you however want to avoid all responsibility in the situation.
You're the only one trying to dodge responsibility.

Literally, everyone is repeating stupid catchphrases like "takes two". So yes, they are. Women can give up all responsibility so why can't men?

[The Republic of Fore]

There's a key action-consequence relationship you're missing. The woman has to be knocked up by somebody, that means that someone is knocking them up. If you're unwilling to support the child you fathered, why should my tax dollars have to pay CPS to take them in because you're a deadbeat dad? Your argument works equally against you. Not wanting to be responsible for your actions doesn't make you non-responsible for your actions.

Don't forget the most important thing. Willfully forgetting that there is a 3rd party in all this that has needs and can't take care of themselves.

They have a perfectly good able-bodied mother who can care for them.

[Punished UMN]

What you're describing is an incel delusion.

What I'm describing is an actual thing that happens. Please, explain to me how two children, one of whom isn't even in school have needs that total the average annual salary of an NFL player.
https://sandrarose.com/2018/08/blake-gr ... d-support/

The judge ordered Griffin to pay Cameron $258,000 a month in financial support for their two children, Ford, 5, and Finn, 2.

Cameron took Griffin to court after he kicked her and the kids out of his mansion last year when he broke off their engagement after he started dating industry mattress, Kendall Jenner.

His relationship with Jenner ended quickly, and now Cameron is taking Griffin to the cleaners.

Idk anon, it sounds like he's the piece of shit in this situation.

[Genivaria]

Literally noone has said this, you however want to avoid all responsibility in the situation.
You're the only one trying to dodge responsibility.

Literally, everyone is repeating stupid catchphrases like "takes two". So yes, they are. Women can give up all responsibility so why can't men?

Noone is arguing that women should 'give up all responsibility'. Stop lying.

[The Republic of Fore]

I'm just saying the mother should take responsibility but everyone is insisting that we can't do that.

No you're not, you're saying fathers have no responsibility for their actions. Women cannot astrally project their cooch around your dick in the middle of the night, they're not succubuses, if one gets pregnant, it's because someone got them pregnant. Pregnancy is not unilateral.

They still chose to get pregnant, nobody forced them. None of these arguments can be used any other time when women want to dump their kids off in foster homes. Yet magically they pop out the minute we suggest that not wanting to support a child should be a right enjoyed by both parties. Also, women can rape men and get pregnant from it. There was literally a case of a teenage boy being court-ordered to pay child support to his rapist.

[Ors Might]

Literally, everyone is repeating stupid catchphrases like "takes two". So yes, they are. Women can give up all responsibility so why can't men?

Noone is arguing that women should 'give up all responsibility'. Stop lying.

Aren’t abortion and adoption literally that though?

[Genivaria]

What I'm describing is an actual thing that happens. Please, explain to me how two children, one of whom isn't even in school have needs that total the average annual salary of an NFL player.
https://sandrarose.com/2018/08/blake-gr ... d-support/

The judge ordered Griffin to pay Cameron $258,000 a month in financial support for their two children, Ford, 5, and Finn, 2.

Cameron took Griffin to court after he kicked her and the kids out of his mansion last year when he broke off their engagement after he started dating industry mattress, Kendall Jenner.

His relationship with Jenner ended quickly, and now Cameron is taking Griffin to the cleaners.

Idk anon, it sounds like he's the piece of shit in this situation.

Omg THAT is his go to victim here? Dear god.

[The Republic of Fore]

Literally, everyone is repeating stupid catchphrases like "takes two". So yes, they are. Women can give up all responsibility so why can't men?

Noone is arguing that women should 'give up all responsibility'. Stop lying.

Stop failing to exercise basic reading comprehension, that isn't what I said. I said that I suggested men have the same right to walk away that women do, and everyone jumped on their high horse to start yelling "but what about the poor baby!"

[Punished UMN]

No you're not, you're saying fathers have no responsibility for their actions. Women cannot astrally project their cooch around your dick in the middle of the night, they're not succubuses, if one gets pregnant, it's because someone got them pregnant. Pregnancy is not unilateral.

They still chose to get pregnant, nobody forced them. None of these arguments can be used any other time when women want to dump their kids off in foster homes. Yet magically they pop out the minute we suggest that not wanting to support a child should be a right enjoyed by both parties. Also, women can rape men and get pregnant from it. There was literally a case of a teenage boy being court-ordered to pay child support to his rapist.

And no one forced the man to get them pregnant here. You act like the man is some poor guy with no agency and not an independent actor. And I disagree with those things, but you're arguing for something far more extreme than not paying child support to rapists.

[Genivaria]

Noone is arguing that women should 'give up all responsibility'. Stop lying.

Stop failing to exercise basic reading comprehension, that isn't what I said. I said that I suggested men have the same right to walk away that women do, and everyone jumped on their high horse to start yelling "but what about the poor baby!"

Bullshit, you were saying this whole time that you the woman should have full responsibility but the man should have none.
Stop lying.

[The Republic of Fore]

What I'm describing is an actual thing that happens. Please, explain to me how two children, one of whom isn't even in school have needs that total the average annual salary of an NFL player.
https://sandrarose.com/2018/08/blake-gr ... d-support/

The judge ordered Griffin to pay Cameron $258,000 a month in financial support for their two children, Ford, 5, and Finn, 2.

Cameron took Griffin to court after he kicked her and the kids out of his mansion last year when he broke off their engagement after he started dating industry mattress, Kendall Jenner.

His relationship with Jenner ended quickly, and now Cameron is taking Griffin to the cleaners.

Idk anon, it sounds like he's the piece of shit in this situation.

Doesn't entitle her to leech off him to the tune of millions per year. Boohoo, he ended a relationship and found someone new. How dare he! Also industry mattress? JFC I'm surprised nobody got canceled over that line.

[The Republic of Fore]

Stop failing to exercise basic reading comprehension, that isn't what I said. I said that I suggested men have the same right to walk away that women do, and everyone jumped on their high horse to start yelling "but what about the poor baby!"

Bullshit, you were saying this whole time that you the woman should have full responsibility but the man should have none.
Stop lying.

Stop failing to read. I said men should have the right to give up responsibility since women do. I never once said all men should never have any responsibility for a child. I'm simply asking for the option. If you can't see the difference that's not my problem.

[Punished UMN]

Idk anon, it sounds like he's the piece of shit in this situation.

Doesn't entitle her to leech off him to the tune of millions per year. Boohoo, he ended a relationship and found someone new. How dare he! Also industry mattress? JFC I'm surprised nobody got canceled over that line.

He kicked his own kids out on the street to fuck someone new, if it were up to me, he would have been caned. You say it's about responsibility, but your response to the supposed lack of responsibility for mothers isn't to make mothers responsible, just to abolish responsibility in general. It's a five-year-old's theory of social responsibility.

[The Republic of Fore]

They still chose to get pregnant, nobody forced them. None of these arguments can be used any other time when women want to dump their kids off in foster homes. Yet magically they pop out the minute we suggest that not wanting to support a child should be a right enjoyed by both parties. Also, women can rape men and get pregnant from it. There was literally a case of a teenage boy being court-ordered to pay child support to his rapist.

And no one forced the man to get them pregnant here. You act like the man is some poor guy with no agency and not an independent actor. And I disagree with those things, but you're arguing for something far more extreme than not paying child support to rapists.

I'm arguing for men to have the same rights as women. You act like women don't have the option to have abortions or give children up for adoption.

[Genivaria]

And no one forced the man to get them pregnant here. You act like the man is some poor guy with no agency and not an independent actor. And I disagree with those things, but you're arguing for something far more extreme than not paying child support to rapists.

I'm arguing for men to have the same rights as women. You act like women don't have the option to have abortions or give children up for adoption.

In many states an countries no they do not.
And it really seems you don't give two shits about the welfare of the child, well sorry but that's too fucking bad and society doesn't run based on your selfish and frankly childish desires.-