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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:08 am

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You hope this will happen. You might even pray for this to happen. But I have my doubts. As do pretty much a sizeable portion of the users on this thread.


This thread isn’t the majority. That’s like saying online comments predict elections. They don’t.

...I do not understand this ...response.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:09 am

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Republicans will pay for it at the polls then as well as if your scenario of passing a law to outlaw lgbt rights came to pass. Even a majority of Republicans support lgbt rights.

No they won't, the people who are already pro-choice don't even vote for them, they're not gonna lose many voters, and frankly don't care.


You honestly think majority of woman would be ok with being forced to carry all children to term and thousands of lgbt couples would be content with their marriages being annulled and their children to longer being legally theirs?

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:09 am

Neutraligon wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
This thread isn’t the majority. That’s like saying online comments predict elections. They don’t.

...I do not understand this ...response.

SL probs thinks a majority of Americans are as idealistic as him...
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Postby Dresderstan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:10 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:No they won't, the people who are already pro-choice don't even vote for them, they're not gonna lose many voters, and frankly don't care.


You honestly think majority of woman would be ok with being forced to carry all children to term and thousands of lgbt couples would be content with their marriages being annulled and their children to longer being legally theirs?

You honestly think majority of Republicans care?
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:11 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:No they won't, the people who are already pro-choice don't even vote for them, they're not gonna lose many voters, and frankly don't care.


You honestly think majority of woman would be ok with being forced to carry all children to term and thousands of lgbt couples would be content with their marriages being annulled and their children to longer being legally theirs?

The majority of women/gays/whatever are not politically active enough and will bend to whatever comes out of DC. Like how a majority of women/gays/whatever bends to whatever the Ecuadorean govt wants.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:11 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
This thread isn’t the majority. That’s like saying online comments predict elections. They don’t.

You're welcome to your fantasies, but when SCOTUS says gay marriage is now unconstitutional do not come for me.

Why didn’t Republicans just outlaw abortion at the federal level in 2017 and do the with Lgbt rights? Seems like it would have been the simple thing to do since they had a majority.

No way Roberts or Gorsch would go for the second considering Gorsch wrote the opinion that ended lgbt discrimination in the workplace.
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:19 am

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You're welcome to your fantasies, but when SCOTUS says gay marriage is now unconstitutional do not come for me.

Why didn’t Republicans just outlaw abortion at the federal level in 2017 and do the with Lgbt rights? Seems like it would have been the simple thing to do since they had a majority.

No way Roberts or Gorsch would go for the second considering Gorsch wrote the opinion that ended lgbt discrimination in the workplace.

Because they were a disorganised mess due to Trump.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:20 am

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:And. They. Don't. Care.

Republicans will pay for it at the polls then as well as if your scenario of passing a law to outlaw lgbt rights came to pass. Even a majority of Republicans support lgbt rights.


Correction: They aren't actively opposed to them. But if the Trump Party decides being gay is bad and outlaws gay marriage, they will totally go along with it.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:21 am

Neutraligon wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why didn’t Republicans just outlaw abortion at the federal level in 2017 and do the with Lgbt rights? Seems like it would have been the simple thing to do since they had a majority.

No way Roberts or Gorsch would go for the second considering Gorsch wrote the opinion that ended lgbt discrimination in the workplace.

Because they were a disorganised mess due to Trump.

And now that they've purged their party of dissidents they're now back to their pet projects... with vigour since Trump gave them a comfortable SCOTUS majority.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:27 am

Justice Department to begin investigation of Trump’s use of the Justice Department to investigate political opponents

The Justice Department's inspector general will investigate the department's handling of a leak investigation into former President Donald Trump's political enemies that included a subpoena to collect metadata of lawmakers, staff and some family members, the office announced Friday.

The request comes as House Intelligence Committee Democrats hold a briefing at which Chairman Adam Schiff is expected to talk with his members about what the committee has learned, a source familiar tells CNN.

The activity follows the bombshell revelation that prosecutors in the Trump administration Justice Department subpoenaed Apple for data from the accounts of House Intelligence Committee Democrats along with their staff and family members as part of a leak investigation. The prosecutors were looking for the sources behind news stories about contacts between Russia and Trump associates. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Dick Durbin are calling for former Attorneys General William Barr and Jeff Sessions to testify on the matter.

"If they refuse, they are subject to being subpoenaed and compelled to testify under oath," the Democrats said in a statement.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:58 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Because they were a disorganised mess due to Trump.

And now that they've purged their party of dissidents they're now back to their pet projects... with vigour since Trump gave them a comfortable SCOTUS majority.

I guess abortion rights activists should just give up and Lgbt people should prepare for having no rights again nationwide. Both would be extremely unpopular and face tremendous backlash.

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:00 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:And now that they've purged their party of dissidents they're now back to their pet projects... with vigour since Trump gave them a comfortable SCOTUS majority.

I guess abortion rights activists should just give up and Lgbt people should prepare for having no rights again nationwide. Both would be extremely unpopular and face tremendous backlash.


Surely you would oppose such backlash though, after all the law is the law and people should obey it like you always say, yes?
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:02 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I guess abortion rights activists should just give up and Lgbt people should prepare for having no rights again nationwide. Both would be extremely unpopular and face tremendous backlash.


Surely you would oppose such backlash though, after all the law is the law and people should obey it like you always say, yes?


No I wouldn’t because that would mean I have no rights. You can’t give a right and then take it away. You can’t annul thousands of marriages or rule that thousands of kids are no longer have parents. The court had an opportunity to do this last year with a case in Indiana. They refused to take it up.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:17 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Surely you would oppose such backlash though, after all the law is the law and people should obey it like you always say, yes?


No I wouldn’t because that would mean I have no rights. You can’t give a right and then take it away. You can’t annul thousands of marriages or rule that thousands of kids are no longer have parents. The court had an opportunity to do this last year with a case in Indiana. They refused to take it up.

You can’t… in the context of the current political climate, where elections still are significant determinants of a party’s control of state and federal offices (even if they’re flawed). If Republican power can be more fully separated from the desires of the whole electorate, those are things they could do, and things that significant numbers of Republicans express some degree of support for doing.

You can’t seem to decide if you’re saying “that’s impossible” or “I would oppose that,” or if the latter, then what opposing it and “backlash” would physically consist of.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:28 pm

Senkaku wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
No I wouldn’t because that would mean I have no rights. You can’t give a right and then take it away. You can’t annul thousands of marriages or rule that thousands of kids are no longer have parents. The court had an opportunity to do this last year with a case in Indiana. They refused to take it up.

You can’t… in the context of the current political climate, where elections still are significant determinants of a party’s control of state and federal offices (even if they’re flawed). If Republican power can be more fully separated from the desires of the whole electorate, those are things they could do, and things that significant numbers of Republicans express some degree of support for doing.

You can’t seem to decide if you’re saying “that’s impossible” or “I would oppose that,” or if the latter, then what opposing it and “backlash” would physically consist of.

Such an action like what you think will happen would be extremely unpopular and create a legal nightmare.

The Supreme Court had a prime opportunity last year to do overturn same sex marriage and adoption. They declined to take the case.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:31 pm

Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
Our mission is to stand athwart history, yelling "Ha ha, your dog died, just like your son."
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
it's all propaganda

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:45 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Senkaku wrote:You can’t… in the context of the current political climate, where elections still are significant determinants of a party’s control of state and federal offices (even if they’re flawed). If Republican power can be more fully separated from the desires of the whole electorate, those are things they could do, and things that significant numbers of Republicans express some degree of support for doing.

You can’t seem to decide if you’re saying “that’s impossible” or “I would oppose that,” or if the latter, then what opposing it and “backlash” would physically consist of.

Such an action like what you think will happen would be extremely unpopular and create a legal nightmare.

Okay? Why do you think that’s relevant? When people express concern over the potential end of democracy, they’re not just saying that in a vacuum, it’s because they’re worried about the possibility it opens up for whoever’s in control of the state to do things that the people really don’t want. Saying “it would be unpopular” is not the same as saying “they wouldn’t do it” or “it couldn’t happen.”
The Supreme Court had a prime opportunity last year to do overturn same sex marriage and adoption. They declined to take the case.

Yeah, last year. It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m saying. The political environment is changing; their declining last year does not mean they will always do so or even that they will always be a relevant actor in determining these things.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:50 pm

Senkaku wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Such an action like what you think will happen would be extremely unpopular and create a legal nightmare.

Okay? Why do you think that’s relevant? When people express concern over the potential end of democracy, they’re not just saying that in a vacuum, it’s because they’re worried about the possibility it opens up for whoever’s in control of the state to do things that the people really don’t want. Saying “it would be unpopular” is not the same as saying “they wouldn’t do it” or “it couldn’t happen.”
The Supreme Court had a prime opportunity last year to do overturn same sex marriage and adoption. They declined to take the case.

Yeah, last year. It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m saying. The political environment is changing; their declining last year does not mean they will always do so or even that they will always be a relevant actor in determining these things.


How would they not be a relevant actor? Is a future Republican Congress and president going to pass a law rolling back Lgbt rights and then decide to completely ignore the courts when they strike it down?

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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:52 pm

San Lumen wrote:the courts when they strike it down?

IF SL, a very big IF they strike it down. SCOTUS is going to live as a 7-2 GOP majority for the next few decades.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:54 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:the courts when they strike it down?

IF SL, a very big IF they strike it down. SCOTUS is going to live as a 7-2 GOP majority for the next few decades.

How you getting a 7-2 majority?

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:And now that they've purged their party of dissidents they're now back to their pet projects... with vigour since Trump gave them a comfortable SCOTUS majority.

I guess abortion rights activists should just give up and Lgbt people should prepare for having no rights again nationwide. Both would be extremely unpopular and face tremendous backlash.


How about you stop relying on the fucking government to protect you and those you care about? Cause at best they don't care about you as a person and at worst under folks like Trump, they're out to get you. Screw the courts. Defend your rights by any means.
Last edited by Borderlands of Rojava on Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Okay? Why do you think that’s relevant? When people express concern over the potential end of democracy, they’re not just saying that in a vacuum, it’s because they’re worried about the possibility it opens up for whoever’s in control of the state to do things that the people really don’t want. Saying “it would be unpopular” is not the same as saying “they wouldn’t do it” or “it couldn’t happen.”

Yeah, last year. It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m saying. The political environment is changing; their declining last year does not mean they will always do so or even that they will always be a relevant actor in determining these things.


How would they not be a relevant actor? Is a future Republican Congress and president going to pass a law rolling back Lgbt rights and then decide to completely ignore the courts when they strike it down?

You do know presidents have ignored the courts before, right? How many divisions have they got?

It’s not really clear how the political situation in this country is going to develop over the next decade, but I’m worried you may find yourself regretting this level of complacency. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d308d217-42c8-4a45-b2d5-07c0a119b945
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Okay? Why do you think that’s relevant? When people express concern over the potential end of democracy, they’re not just saying that in a vacuum, it’s because they’re worried about the possibility it opens up for whoever’s in control of the state to do things that the people really don’t want. Saying “it would be unpopular” is not the same as saying “they wouldn’t do it” or “it couldn’t happen.”

Yeah, last year. It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m saying. The political environment is changing; their declining last year does not mean they will always do so or even that they will always be a relevant actor in determining these things.


How would they not be a relevant actor? Is a future Republican Congress and president going to pass a law rolling back Lgbt rights and then decide to completely ignore the courts when they strike it down?


Yeah probably lol. Have you missed the GOP's transformation? I could totally see a Trumpist Republican saying "They've made their ruling, let them enforce it".
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:57 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How would they not be a relevant actor? Is a future Republican Congress and president going to pass a law rolling back Lgbt rights and then decide to completely ignore the courts when they strike it down?


Yeah probably lol. Have you missed the GOP's transformation? I could totally see a Trumpist Republican saying "They've made their ruling, let them enforce it".

And honestly I don't know how SL doesn't realise that SCOTUS is ruled by a GOP majority so it's far more likely that we get a ruling in favour of the GOP when they come with something that isn't completely idiotic like the election cases.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:57 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How would they not be a relevant actor? Is a future Republican Congress and president going to pass a law rolling back Lgbt rights and then decide to completely ignore the courts when they strike it down?


Yeah probably lol. Have you missed the GOP's transformation? I could totally see a Trumpist Republican saying "They've made their ruling, let them enforce it".


"The Supreme Court today said I can't criminalize the fake news media. Cool shit, I never asked and I don't care what you or the constitution thinks."

-Donald Trump after narrowly winning reelection in 2024, thanks in no small part to voter fraud and Biden being an unintelligent professional nice guy.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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