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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

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Senkaku
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Senkaku » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:25 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Senkaku wrote:You are gravely mistaken if you think their plan to regain power is to win popular majorities in free and fair elections, and we are all going to suffer because of such complacency not just on your part but on the part of a significant chunk of the ruling class

It is, in fact, all doom and gloom. A parallel society has been successfully constructed, reinforced against outside penetration, and whipped into a hateful frenzy, and now, like a tumor, it appears to be trying to kill its host


The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.

Some of those 4 in 10 will leave; some will stay. Doesn’t really matter. If you have the resources and you’re willing to use force, you really do not need anywhere close to a majority of the population to seize control of a society. The far right has the resources and is developing the willingness.

Salus Maior wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.


I'm all for keeping a sense of hope for the future (we do need that, after all), we can't underestimate these people either.

Ooh, are we going to get the lecture about how we’re cynical degenerate layabouts or something again? :roll:
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Postby Salus Maior » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:28 pm

Senkaku wrote:Ooh, are we going to get the lecture about how we’re cynical degenerate layabouts or something again? :roll:


If you're still salty about that, it must have had a grain of truth in it then to have struck such a nerve.

But no, I'll spare you.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:32 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.


I'm all for keeping a sense of hope for the future (we do need that, after all), we can't underestimate these people either.


Definitely need to keep a strong eye on their shenanigans - what perturbed me about all the Trumpism and conspiracies is that people I knew subscribed to them, it infiltrated my own circle and that is testament to the strength his message had. This whole 'anti-woke' thing, that it's cool to be an asshole, just telling it like it is..

..so the threat is real, but I wouldn't be all doom and gloom given a large majority are recognising it and certainly won't vote for it. Not to say there won't be further trouble down the line - right wing extremism is going to continue to spill into violence.
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Zurkerx
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Postby Zurkerx » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:04 pm

My mom has decided to boycott the MLB- despite the fact she doesn't watch baseball either.

Imagine being triggered over what the MLB does...

Bombadil wrote:
Senkaku wrote:You are gravely mistaken if you think their plan to regain power is to win popular majorities in free and fair elections, and we are all going to suffer because of such complacency not just on your part but on the part of a significant chunk of the ruling class

It is, in fact, all doom and gloom. A parallel society has been successfully constructed, reinforced against outside penetration, and whipped into a hateful frenzy, and now, like a tumor, it appears to be trying to kill its host


The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.


Aye, but within that same poll, 8 in 10 Republicans have a favorable view of Trump so while a sizable minority may not believe in his claims, they'll still vote for him. But as it's becoming increasingly clear, that "4" is becoming smaller as they are radicalized. Never mind the fact that time back home with voters only emboldens Republicans to oppose Biden’s agenda, such as those that oppose his infrastructure bill despite some in the GOP believing the government has a role. The culprits? It's too costly because we spent on COVID Relief- and the fact the GOP claim that only 5 to 7 percent of Biden’s plan is for ‘real infrastructure’, which isn't accurate either.

They have figured how to weaponized misinformation and it's working nicely for them so far. In the long term, say 10 years, this will hopefully die out but given this is America, I'm not so confident in the average American Voter making a sound decision.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:42 pm

Sincluda wrote:Misinfo is probably the biggest contributor to unity right now and pretty hard to tackle. An anti-misinformation act can easily get labeled as "blocking the truth" and "snuffing out free speech" by alt-right news sources and more even if it's simply an education program.


I've long said that having an Australian mogul own such huge media influence is a bad thing, no interest in the welfare of the US against his own bottom line - he was a huge contributor to Brexit in the UK as well as the rise of Trump - he operates through the politics of hate and division to reduce the impact of government on his business.

As per John Boehner's op-ed, at some point the leadership of the Republican party had no power against the threat of an interview on FOX, and FOX was more than happy to invite the crazy members of the party for ratings.

I don't know how Murdoch isn't more discussed for the evil man he is, the phone tapping scandal alone should have resulted in his being thrown out of the media business in the UK and the US for the downright invasive criminality it was.
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Postby North Washington Republic » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:43 pm

Zurkerx wrote:My mom has decided to boycott the MLB- despite the fact she doesn't watch baseball either.

Imagine being triggered over what the MLB does...

Bombadil wrote:
The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.


Aye, but within that same poll, 8 in 10 Republicans have a favorable view of Trump so while a sizable minority may not believe in his claims, they'll still vote for him. But as it's becoming increasingly clear, that "4" is becoming smaller as they are radicalized. Never mind the fact that time back home with voters only emboldens Republicans to oppose Biden’s agenda, such as those that oppose his infrastructure bill despite some in the GOP believing the government has a role. The culprits? It's too costly because we spent on COVID Relief- and the fact the GOP claim that only 5 to 7 percent of Biden’s plan is for ‘real infrastructure’, which isn't accurate either.

They have figured how to weaponized misinformation and it's working nicely for them so far. In the long term, say 10 years, this will hopefully die out but given this is America, I'm not so confident in the average American Voter making a sound decision.


I think that it may last longer than 10 years, it all depends how involved Trump is and whatever he is locked up or not. The GOP believes that they have inspired people that are normally apolitical to vote for them, and they would be right. I know plenty of people that LOVE Donald Trump because he doesn’t act like a politician, and that he is entertaining. “Owning da Libs” is unfortunately very popular amongst a certain segment of the population.
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Joohan
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Postby Joohan » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:02 pm

Sincluda wrote:Misinfo is probably the biggest contributor to unity right now and pretty hard to tackle. An anti-misinformation act can easily get labeled as "blocking the truth" and "snuffing out free speech" by alt-right news sources and more even if it's simply an education program.


The biggest contributors of misinformation in the public sphere are, overwhelmingly, media corporations. 6 corporations control 90% of all media in the United States, and no one with any sense thinks that any of them are actually unbiased. Qanon and north Korean bots wish they could create even a fraction of the mass hysteria and controversy materialized from groups like Comcast, Newscorp, and Disney ( case in point, practically no one outside of /b/ would know who the hell Qanon even is if it weren't for the media ).

The best way to combat misinformation would be break these monopolies, and possibly create an American BBC in order to kill the profit motive when delivering the news.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:19 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Ooh, are we going to get the lecture about how we’re cynical degenerate layabouts or something again? :roll:


If you're still salty about that, it must have had a grain of truth in it then to have struck such a nerve.

But no, I'll spare you.

Okay, that’s actually fair, sorry for sniping :p

Bombadil wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
I'm all for keeping a sense of hope for the future (we do need that, after all), we can't underestimate these people either.


Definitely need to keep a strong eye on their shenanigans - what perturbed me about all the Trumpism and conspiracies is that people I knew subscribed to them, it infiltrated my own circle and that is testament to the strength his message had. This whole 'anti-woke' thing, that it's cool to be an asshole, just telling it like it is..

..so the threat is real, but I wouldn't be all doom and gloom given a large majority are recognising it and certainly won't vote for it. Not to say there won't be further trouble down the line - right wing extremism is going to continue to spill into violence.

I just think if the Democrats prove unable to deliver on some pretty radical changes, we’re going to be dealing with the same forces that push people towards the radical right that we’re dealing with now... just in perpetuity, getting worse and worse. And my confidence in the Dems is... not high, especially w Manchin’s current play hitting the press.
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Postby Shrillland » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:51 pm

Another measure's been added to the Plaza.

Pennsylvania: Question 4 would amend the constitution to allow municipal fire departments and EMS services to apply for state loans from the State Fire Commission. Currently, only volunteer fire departments and ambulance services can apply for these loans.
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Postby Postauthoritarian America » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:14 pm

Kowani wrote:…why am I a separate category


Anyway, Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) has vetoed a bill banning gender-affirming healthcare for trans youth

Arkansas’ governor on Monday vetoed a ban on gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth, calling the legislation a “vast government overreach” and a “product of the cultural war in America.”
Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) said that if signed into law, the bill would interfere with physicians and parents “as they deal with some of the most complex and sensitive matters involving young people.”
The bill, which is part of a wave of similar legislation across the country, would have banned doctors from providing transgender minors with gender-affirming treatments such as puberty blockers, hormone therapies and transition-related surgeries, or referring them for such treatments. Because it takes a simple majority to override a governor’s veto in Arkansas, Hutchinson acknowledged that the general assembly is likely to override the veto, given the overwhelming support for the bill in the state legislature.
“I’m hopeful, though, that my action will cause conservative Republican legislators to think through the issue again and hopefully come up with a more restrained approach,” Hutchinson said.
Arkansas was the first state to send such a bill to a governor’s desk, after lawmakers last week voted 28 to 7 in favor of the legislation.
Hutchinson said he came to his decision after hearing out the concerns of transgender people and doctors in his state. He cited opposition from leading national medical associations who feared that denying access to this medical care could result in “significant harm” to transgender young people.
“The bill is overbroad, extreme and does not grandfather those young people who are currently under hormone treatment,” Hutchinson said. “The young people who are currently under a doctor’s care will be without treatment when this law goes into effect. That means they will be looking to the black market or go out of state … to find the treatment that they want and need. This is not the right path to put them on.”
If the legislature overrides the governor’s veto, Chase Strangio, deputy director for transgender justice at the American Civil Liberties Union, has vowed to challenge the ban in court.


Because Kowani is firstest with the mostest. The chances of beating Kowani to the breaking news punch are worse than the chances that Donald J. Trump will stop drinking Diet Coke.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:33 pm

Postauthoritarian America wrote:
Kowani wrote:…why am I a separate category


Anyway, Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) has vetoed a bill banning gender-affirming healthcare for trans youth

Arkansas’ governor on Monday vetoed a ban on gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth, calling the legislation a “vast government overreach” and a “product of the cultural war in America.”
Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) said that if signed into law, the bill would interfere with physicians and parents “as they deal with some of the most complex and sensitive matters involving young people.”
The bill, which is part of a wave of similar legislation across the country, would have banned doctors from providing transgender minors with gender-affirming treatments such as puberty blockers, hormone therapies and transition-related surgeries, or referring them for such treatments. Because it takes a simple majority to override a governor’s veto in Arkansas, Hutchinson acknowledged that the general assembly is likely to override the veto, given the overwhelming support for the bill in the state legislature.
“I’m hopeful, though, that my action will cause conservative Republican legislators to think through the issue again and hopefully come up with a more restrained approach,” Hutchinson said.
Arkansas was the first state to send such a bill to a governor’s desk, after lawmakers last week voted 28 to 7 in favor of the legislation.
Hutchinson said he came to his decision after hearing out the concerns of transgender people and doctors in his state. He cited opposition from leading national medical associations who feared that denying access to this medical care could result in “significant harm” to transgender young people.
“The bill is overbroad, extreme and does not grandfather those young people who are currently under hormone treatment,” Hutchinson said. “The young people who are currently under a doctor’s care will be without treatment when this law goes into effect. That means they will be looking to the black market or go out of state … to find the treatment that they want and need. This is not the right path to put them on.”
If the legislature overrides the governor’s veto, Chase Strangio, deputy director for transgender justice at the American Civil Liberties Union, has vowed to challenge the ban in court.


Because Kowani is firstest with the mostest. The chances of beating Kowani to the breaking news punch are worse than the chances that Donald J. Trump will stop drinking Diet Coke.

He couldn’t even last a day
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Postby Kowani » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 am

Also, Virginia has officially banned the gay/trans panic defense

Delegate Danica Roem introduced the bill in the Virginia House of Delegates earlier this year, and Gov. Ralph Northam signed the bill last week. It goes into effect in July. Under Virginia's new law, "the discovery of, perception of, or belief about" someone's sex, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation is not a defense or "provocation" for murder or manslaughter.
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Postby Kilobugya » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:20 am

Kowani wrote:Also, Virginia has officially banned the gay/trans panic defense

Delegate Danica Roem introduced the bill in the Virginia House of Delegates earlier this year, and Gov. Ralph Northam signed the bill last week. It goes into effect in July. Under Virginia's new law, "the discovery of, perception of, or belief about" someone's sex, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation is not a defense or "provocation" for murder or manslaughter.


What ?! That actually was a thing ? Shocking.

Here using violence against (or worse, killing) someone because of sexual orientation of gender identity is actually (like for skin color or religion) an aggravating factor.
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Postby Blargoblarg » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:44 am

Comerciante wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.

At this point we should all start placing bets on what actually is going to finally do us in. My money is on COVID. The little stinker keeps changing up.

My bet is on climate change, since neither of the two major parties are willing to do anywhere close to enough to address the problem. The Republicans are in denial that climate change exists, while the Democrats talk about how we need to deal with it but offer pathetic incremental solutions that are completely inadequate to the scope of the problem.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:04 am

Blargoblarg wrote:
Comerciante wrote:At this point we should all start placing bets on what actually is going to finally do us in. My money is on COVID. The little stinker keeps changing up.

My bet is on climate change, since neither of the two major parties are willing to do anywhere close to enough to address the problem. The Republicans are in denial that climate change exists, while the Democrats talk about how we need to deal with it but offer pathetic incremental solutions that are completely inadequate to the scope of the problem.


Climate change is probably gonna wreck our shit. It's 100% guaranteed to get worse and if nothing is done about it it will reach its worst possible outcome which could render much of the world uninhabitable.
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Postby The Caleshan Valkyrie » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:27 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Blargoblarg wrote:My bet is on climate change, since neither of the two major parties are willing to do anywhere close to enough to address the problem. The Republicans are in denial that climate change exists, while the Democrats talk about how we need to deal with it but offer pathetic incremental solutions that are completely inadequate to the scope of the problem.


Climate change is probably gonna wreck our shit. It's 100% guaranteed to get worse and if nothing is done about it it will reach its worst possible outcome which could render much of the world uninhabitable.


And the worst part is even if we DO make a sizable change, it won’t do much to certain other nations that continue to pump out more stuff as they further industrialize. We’d need a plan for that issue too.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:29 am

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Climate change is probably gonna wreck our shit. It's 100% guaranteed to get worse and if nothing is done about it it will reach its worst possible outcome which could render much of the world uninhabitable.


And the worst part is even if we DO make a sizable change, it won’t do much to certain other nations that continue to pump out more stuff as they further industrialize. We’d need a plan for that issue too.


I actually read about this recently, some Indian minister more or less straight up said "developing countries don't want renewables, we want the cheapest option possible". We're so screwed lol
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Zurkerx
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Postby Zurkerx » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:29 am

Biden will announce that he's moving the deadline for States to open COVID vaccines to all U.S. adults to April 19.

The original deadline was May 1st though most States other than Oregon and Hawaii have announced they will make the vaccine to all adults by April 19th. He will also announce that 150 shots have been administered in 75 Days since he took office.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:39 am

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Climate change is probably gonna wreck our shit. It's 100% guaranteed to get worse and if nothing is done about it it will reach its worst possible outcome which could render much of the world uninhabitable.


And the worst part is even if we DO make a sizable change, it won’t do much to certain other nations that continue to pump out more stuff as they further industrialize. We’d need a plan for that issue too.


Unless new technologies become widespread and cheap enough for global mass production and mass market the whole "hurr durr lets reduce our individual CO2 footprint and go with Greta Thunberg protesting at FFF" isn't going to lead anywhere.

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Kilobugya
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Founded: Apr 05, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:47 am

Nakena wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
And the worst part is even if we DO make a sizable change, it won’t do much to certain other nations that continue to pump out more stuff as they further industrialize. We’d need a plan for that issue too.


Unless new technologies become widespread and cheap enough for global mass production and mass market the whole "hurr durr lets reduce our individual CO2 footprint and go with Greta Thunberg protesting at FFF" isn't going to lead anywhere.


The problem is not if it's cheap enough or not. Both renewable and nuclear energy are affordable. And much cheaper than waiting and letting the situation gets worse. The problem is political. Will states invest in public transit and clean energy, will they regulate and control corporations, or will they let them burn our planet ?
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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:52 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Unless new technologies become widespread and cheap enough for global mass production and mass market the whole "hurr durr lets reduce our individual CO2 footprint and go with Greta Thunberg protesting at FFF" isn't going to lead anywhere.


The problem is not if it's cheap enough or not. Both renewable and nuclear energy are affordable. And much cheaper than waiting and letting the situation gets worse. The problem is political. Will states invest in public transit and clean energy, will they regulate and control corporations, or will they let them burn our planet ?


Given the Covid-19 response in general... my bet's are on the later.

Unless new technologies become widespread with increased energy efficiency and thus less resource consumption and less CO2 output.

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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:02 am

Nakena wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
And the worst part is even if we DO make a sizable change, it won’t do much to certain other nations that continue to pump out more stuff as they further industrialize. We’d need a plan for that issue too.


Unless new technologies become widespread and cheap enough for global mass production and mass market the whole "hurr durr lets reduce our individual CO2 footprint and go with Greta Thunberg protesting at FFF" isn't going to lead anywhere.

The concept of an individual's carbon footprint was invented by BP to help shift the blame for carbon emissions away from them and onto, obviously, the individual. Which is a fine illustration of how it is not simply a matter of new technologies being affordable. Big polluting businesses are not going to sit idly by and allow their profits to vanish.
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:34 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... 4-n1263150

Florida Representative Alcee Hastings dies at 84.
Last edited by San Lumen on Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:37 am

Zurkerx wrote:Biden will announce that he's moving the deadline for States to open COVID vaccines to all U.S. adults to April 19.

The original deadline was May 1st though most States other than Oregon and Hawaii have announced they will make the vaccine to all adults by April 19th. He will also announce that 150 shots have been administered in 75 Days since he took office.

2 a day?
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:39 am

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/bo ... m/2347638/

Kim Janey who became mayor of Boston after Marty Walsh resigned to become Labor Secretary has announced she will run for a full term. The top two primary will be held in September with the general election on November 2nd.

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