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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon May 17, 2021 4:13 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Say what you want about Trump, but he's done more for peace in the Middle East than any Democrat has. And Obama didn't deserve any damned Nobel Peace Prize


And what did he actually do?
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Mon May 17, 2021 4:14 am

Vassenor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Say what you want about Trump, but he's done more for peace in the Middle East than any Democrat has. And Obama didn't deserve any damned Nobel Peace Prize


And what did he actually do?


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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon May 17, 2021 4:17 am

Vassenor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Say what you want about Trump, but he's done more for peace in the Middle East than any Democrat has. And Obama didn't deserve any damned Nobel Peace Prize


And what did he actually do?

Withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS mostly ended under his regime, etc. How many America lead wars were the Middle East under Trump vs. under Obama? Far, far fewer
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Mon May 17, 2021 4:18 am

Vassenor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Say what you want about Trump, but he's done more for peace in the Middle East than any Democrat has. And Obama didn't deserve any damned Nobel Peace Prize


And what did he actually do?

Republican President Trump's negotiated Peace deals between Arab Nations and Israel deserve President Trump the Nobel Peace Prize.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Mon May 17, 2021 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon May 17, 2021 4:19 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what did he actually do?

Withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS mostly ended under his regime, etc. How many America lead wars were the Middle East under Trump vs. under Obama? Far, far fewer


So basically took credit for other people's work.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 am

Vassenor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS mostly ended under his regime, etc. How many America lead wars were the Middle East under Trump vs. under Obama? Far, far fewer


So basically took credit for other people's work.

How so, exactly? Obama has 6 years to end ISIS and 8 years to withdraw troops from the ME, Trump did it in less than 4 years. Unless you're trying to suggest that the whole process took between 8 to 12 years, then you have to credit to Trump. Also, Trump did not start any new wars in the ME
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Juristonia
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Postby Juristonia » Mon May 17, 2021 4:23 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Withdrawing troops from the Middle East,

Moving troops to another part of the middle east isn't removing them from the middle eat.
Australian rePublic wrote: ISIS mostly ended under his regime, etc.

A continuation of what was already going on, and also not even remotely what he promised/said about ISIS.
Australian rePublic wrote:How many America lead wars were the Middle East under Trump vs. under Obama? Far, far fewer

The same amount. Literally the same amount. He didn't start any new ones (though he definitely got close several times) but he didn't end any either.

So basically, he did nothing.
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Postby Juristonia » Mon May 17, 2021 4:24 am

Australian rePublic wrote:How so, exactly? Obama has 6 years to end ISIS and 8 years to withdraw troops from the ME, Trump did it in less than 4 years.

Trump did neither of those things.
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Liriena wrote:Say what you will about fascists: they are remarkably consistent even after several decades of failing spectacularly elsewhere.

Ifreann wrote:Indeed, as far as I can recall only one poster has ever supported legalising bestiality, and he was fucking his cat and isn't welcome here any more, in no small part, I imagine, because he kept going on about how he was fucking his cat.

Cannot think of a name wrote:Anyway, I'm from gold country, we grow up knowing that when people jump up and down shouting "GOLD GOLD GOLD" the gold is gone and the only money to be made is in selling shovels.

And it seems to me that cryptocurrency and NFTs and such suddenly have a whooooole lot of shovel salespeople.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon May 17, 2021 4:24 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So basically took credit for other people's work.

How so, exactly? Obama has 6 years to end ISIS and 8 years to withdraw troops from the ME, Trump did it in less than 4 years. Unless you're trying to suggest that the whole process took between 8 to 12 years, then you have to credit to Trump. Also, Trump did not start any new wars in the ME


What did Trump do to end ISIS? Other than increase the number of drone strikes and end the requirement to disclose civilian casualties from them.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Mon May 17, 2021 4:26 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what did he actually do?

Withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS mostly ended under his regime, etc. How many America lead wars were the Middle East under Trump vs. under Obama? Far, far fewer


I clearly remember him bragging about going back on that when he "took the oil."
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Postby New haven america » Mon May 17, 2021 4:27 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So basically took credit for other people's work.

How so, exactly? Obama has 6 years to end ISIS and 8 years to withdraw troops from the ME, Trump did it in less than 4 years. Unless you're trying to suggest that the whole process took between 8 to 12 years, then you have to credit to Trump. Also, Trump did not start any new wars in the ME

No he didn't.

What alternate universe are you typing your posts from?
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Mon May 17, 2021 4:28 am

Vassenor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS mostly ended under his regime, etc. How many America lead wars were the Middle East under Trump vs. under Obama? Far, far fewer


So basically took credit for other people's work.

The Australian Republic's statement, withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS ended under President Trump lol, and far fewer America lead wars in the Middle East Under Republican President Trump, make your comment sound Illogical.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Mon May 17, 2021 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Mon May 17, 2021 4:30 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So basically took credit for other people's work.

The Australian Republic's statement, withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS ended under President Trump lol, and far fewer America lead wars in the Middle East Under Trump, make your comment sound Illogical.

ISIS may have ended while Trump was disgracing the office, but he wasn't responsible for it.

Nor did he pull out troops, he actually sent boots into Syria within his 1st month in office.
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Postby Saiwania » Mon May 17, 2021 4:38 am

Vassenor wrote:What did Trump do to end ISIS? Other than increase the number of drone strikes and end the requirement to disclose civilian casualties from them.


Trump did many things Obama was reluctant to do because of concerns for collateral damage or blowback. Many of us discussed the ISIS war for years here off and on as it progressed. I suggested regularly that Obama could bomb the oil wells to dry up the flow of money or to pour resources to the most powerful allies to be had in the region as opposed to what factions were untested.

But nope, Obama's administration kept saying: "durrr- we can't work with Assad! -we must support those Free Syrian Army fools" who just weren't effective or defected to other Jihadist factions when given a chance. Assad ended up winning his civil war anyways, no thanks to the US, but with Russia's help.

Best contribution the US was able to do however, was to support SDF/Kurdish efforts to counterinvade ISIS until they were really gone from both Syria and Iraq. Iran helped the Iraq front in a big way.

Not since WWII Eastern Front was there a foe that tried to destroy the peoples they targeted, only to be driven all the way back to holding no territory left. It was remarkable, just far less grand because ISIS was no professional, conventional force with masses of materiel and capabilities.
Last edited by Saiwania on Mon May 17, 2021 4:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon May 17, 2021 4:43 am

New haven america wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:The Australian Republic's statement, withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS ended under President Trump lol, and far fewer America lead wars in the Middle East Under Trump, make your comment sound Illogical.

ISIS may have ended while Trump was disgracing the office, but he wasn't responsible for it.

Nor did he pull out troops, he actually sent boots into Syria within his 1st month in office.

I hate when people try and give Trump credit for defeating ISIS, its soo absurd. No the people who defeated ISIS are the Iraqi and Syrian Armies, the Kurds, the Coalition and Many more.
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Postby Kilobugya » Mon May 17, 2021 4:46 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Say what you want about Trump, but he's done more for peace in the Middle East than any Democrat has.


He has done about has much for "peace" by supporting Netanyahu than a school principal who help bullies because that's he can keep the appearance of peace in the courtyard - until things explode out of control as they were doomed to.

Australian rePublic wrote:And Obama didn't deserve any damned Nobel Peace Prize


That's definitely true but not really relevant.
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Postby Seangoli » Mon May 17, 2021 4:48 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
New haven america wrote:ISIS may have ended while Trump was disgracing the office, but he wasn't responsible for it.

Nor did he pull out troops, he actually sent boots into Syria within his 1st month in office.

I hate when people try and give Trump credit for defeating ISIS, its soo absurd. No the people who defeated ISIS are the Iraqi and Syrian Armies, the Kurds, the Coalition and Many more.


Don't forget Iranians, who also got involved against ISIS. ISIS managed to piss off literally every group in the region, to a point where a lot of bitter enemies put aside their dislike for one another to fight a more serious threat. Hell, the ISIS crisis was a time for the President to find common ground among old adversaries, and the opportunity got pissed away.
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Postby Saiwania » Mon May 17, 2021 4:48 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:I hate when people try and give Trump credit for defeating ISIS, its soo absurd. No the people who defeated ISIS are the Iraqi and Syrian Armies, the Kurds, the Coalition and Many more.


Trump at minimum, made more competent decisions for the US in the process of defeating ISIS. Plus ISIS's leader got taken out. More equipment and etc. reached where it needed to go under Trump than with Obama. But yes, the actual fighting was from Russia, Iran, Syria and Iraq's official militaries, along with SDF and Kurds, along with any coalition assistance.
Last edited by Saiwania on Mon May 17, 2021 4:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Mon May 17, 2021 4:52 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
New haven america wrote:ISIS may have ended while Trump was disgracing the office, but he wasn't responsible for it.

Nor did he pull out troops, he actually sent boots into Syria within his 1st month in office.

I hate when people try and give Trump credit for defeating ISIS, its soo absurd. No the people who defeated ISIS are the Iraqi and Syrian Armies, the Kurds, the Coalition and Many more.


The Kurds who Trump later sold out to Turkey because he was jealous they were 1000 times than man he'll ever be.
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Postby Punished UMN » Mon May 17, 2021 4:56 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:I hate when people try and give Trump credit for defeating ISIS, its soo absurd. No the people who defeated ISIS are the Iraqi and Syrian Armies, the Kurds, the Coalition and Many more.


The Kurds who Trump later sold out to Turkey because he was jealous they were 1000 times than man he'll ever be.

The Kurds weren't "sold out", the Turks just mogged them. No one was going to go to war with Turkey over a bunch of mountain tribes that everyone in the region hates.
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Postby Kilobugya » Mon May 17, 2021 5:00 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:The Kurds who Trump later sold out to Turkey because he was jealous they were 1000 times than man he'll ever be.


It's not only Trump who sold them out, but everyone. Russia, France, ... the whole world behaved in a totally shameful way, turning their back to the Kurds after they did so much against ISIS. Revolting.

Punished UMN wrote:The Kurds weren't "sold out", the Turks just mogged them. No one was going to go to war with Turkey over a bunch of mountain tribes that everyone in the region hates.


No need to "go to war with Turkey". Just make it clear that if they attack the Kurds they would get a complete embargo from any kind of weapons or ammunitions from USA and EU would very likely have been enough for Erdogan to balk out.
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Postby Caleonia » Mon May 17, 2021 5:00 am

New haven america wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:The Australian Republic's statement, withdrawing troops from the Middle East, ISIS ended under President Trump lol, and far fewer America lead wars in the Middle East Under Trump, make your comment sound Illogical.

ISIS may have ended while Trump was disgracing the office, but he wasn't responsible for it.

Nor did he pull out troops, he actually sent boots into Syria within his 1st month in office.

I thought you meant that literally, like he sent Syria a shipment of boots or something :lol:
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon May 17, 2021 5:03 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:The Kurds weren't "sold out", the Turks just mogged them. No one was going to go to war with Turkey over a bunch of mountain tribes that everyone in the region hates.


No need to "go to war with Turkey". Just make it clear that if they attack the Kurds they would get a complete embargo from any kind of weapons or ammunitions from USA and EU would very likely have been enough for Erdogan to balk out.


In which case they just fuck off and get more buddy-buddy with Moscow and Beijing and kill the Kurds anyways.
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Postby Punished UMN » Mon May 17, 2021 5:06 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:The Kurds who Trump later sold out to Turkey because he was jealous they were 1000 times than man he'll ever be.


It's not only Trump who sold them out, but everyone. Russia, France, ... the whole world behaved in a totally shameful way, turning their back to the Kurds after they did so much against ISIS. Revolting.

Punished UMN wrote:The Kurds weren't "sold out", the Turks just mogged them. No one was going to go to war with Turkey over a bunch of mountain tribes that everyone in the region hates.


No need to "go to war with Turkey". Just make it clear that if they attack the Kurds they would get a complete embargo from any kind of weapons or ammunitions from USA and EU would very likely have been enough for Erdogan to balk out.

Oh, you mean like what happened? They literally did that, Turkey just didn't fucking care. Did you also forget about the part where Turkey literally cheekily fired some artillery shells directly at American spec ops and blockaded incilrik air base to show the Americans that they were serious and they needed to leave?
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Postby Kilobugya » Mon May 17, 2021 5:13 am

Punished UMN wrote:Oh, you mean like what happened? They literally did that, Turkey just didn't fucking care.


I'm not aware they did any threats of economical sanctions against Turkey, and if they did, it obviously was empty threats since none were implemented. So, no, they didn't try to bring Erdogan to behave using mild coercion.
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