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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:26 pm

Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.
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Zurkerx
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Postby Zurkerx » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:26 pm

Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


Among Republicans, yes. Among everyone else? No.

Eight in 10 Democrats and six in 10 independents reject the false claims that the Capitol siege was “mostly peaceful” or it was staged by left-wing protestors.

That said, a majority of Republicans seem easily swayed (their gullibility speaks at such a magnitude), thanks to their disillusion and their political isolation (I mention this in a post in the other thread). The sad thing is, Republicans still overwhelming like Trump:

Trump remains the most popular figure within the party, with eight in 10 Republicans continuing to hold a favorable impression of him.

So, even if Republicans wanted to distance themselves, they likely would be facing a primary challenge. With that, we will see a repeat- if not more violence that targets Democrats and basically anyone not aligned with their views. Add the fact that this undermines Democracy and we got a ticking timebomb here. Unfortunately for us, we have to rely on the Democrats stopping this and given their incompetency, I doubt they can at this moment.
Last edited by Zurkerx on Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:43 pm

Zurkerx wrote:
Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


Among Republicans, yes. Among everyone else? No.

Eight in 10 Democrats and six in 10 independents reject the false claims that the Capitol siege was “mostly peaceful” or it was staged by left-wing protestors.

That said, a majority of Republicans seem easily swayed (their gullibility speaks at such a magnitude), thanks to their disillusion and their political isolation (I mention this in a post in the other thread). The sad thing is, Republicans still overwhelming like Trump:

Trump remains the most popular figure within the party, with eight in 10 Republicans continuing to hold a favorable impression of him.

So, even if Republicans wanted to distance themselves, they likely would be facing a primary challenge. With that, we will see a repeat- if not more violence that targets Democrats and basically anyone not aligned with their views. Add the fact that this undermines Democracy and we got a ticking timebomb here. Unfortunately for us, we have to rely on the Democrats stopping this and given their incompetency, I doubt they can at this moment.

Who are those two out of ten Democrats, and who are those four out of ten Independents thinking that this was a hoax. Are they having an enlightened centrist moment?
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:50 pm

Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.

Yes it was us (antifa) who stormed the Capitol to make you all look bad, so that we can take your guns, spread communism, and blast Cardi B in your churches
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:54 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.


This is really not how I thought America would die lol, what a bizarre timeline
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:57 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.

You know, I think the return to monke movement has some very valid points. Cant destroy the environment or have Trumps if we’re all just literally flinging feces at everything and everyone.
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:01 pm

Andsed wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.

You know, I think the return to monke movement has some very valid points. Cant destroy the environment or have Trumps if we’re all just literally flinging feces at everything and everyone.

Can we compromise and return to neolithic?

It was a great time to go out clubbing.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:05 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.


This is really not how I thought America would die lol, what a bizarre timeline


Death by misinformation and an increasingly radicalised populace as the economy and the environment continue on their death spiral? I thought that more or less what you and I both expected.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:10 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
This is really not how I thought America would die lol, what a bizarre timeline


Death by misinformation and an increasingly radicalised populace as the economy and the environment continue on their death spiral? I thought that more or less what you and I both expected.


I mean, thinking logically about it, yeah. But put yourself back a few years and think about everything that's happened, it's so fucking weird lol. It's like we slipped into a parody.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:11 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Death by misinformation and an increasingly radicalised populace as the economy and the environment continue on their death spiral? I thought that more or less what you and I both expected.


I mean, thinking logically about it, yeah. But put yourself back a few years and think about everything that's happened, it's so fucking weird lol. It's like we slipped into a parody.


All nations fall, it's just a question of how. For us, it's the result of 40 years of ideological media gaslighting the public into listening to only them, as Zurk' and Kowani have shown. We've seen an entirely new reality being created, one parallel to actual reality and yet part of it.
Last edited by Shrillland on Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:26 pm

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Postby Bombadil » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:35 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
I mean, thinking logically about it, yeah. But put yourself back a few years and think about everything that's happened, it's so fucking weird lol. It's like we slipped into a parody.


All nations fall, it's just a question of how. For us, it's the result of 40 years of ideological media gaslighting the public into listening to only them, as Zurk' and Kowani have shown. We've seen an entirely new reality being created, one parallel to actual reality and yet part of it.


Or.. it's the last gasp of a declining yet concentrated force in the religious right, who feel they're the most marginalised group in the USA.

“Surveys of those who identify with Christian nationalist beliefs consistently show that this group feels that they are subject to more discrimination and marginalization than any other group in society, including Islamic people, Black people, atheists, [and] Jewish people,” Gill said.

“They are experiencing their loss of prominence in American culture as an unacceptable attack on their beliefs – and this is driving much of the efforts we are seeing to cling on to power, undermine democracy, and fight for ‘religious freedom’ protections that apply only to them.”


Part of me wonders if the presidency of Barack Obama was somewhat negative in that it unleashed this torrent of hatred. The recent book and op-ed by John Boehner notes this anger and descent into conspiracy on the right started around '08. Part of me feels it merely accelerated things by bringing it all out into the open.

Seems the long trend of the southern strategy is coming to its toxic end, and rather than pivot away from it the Republicans are going chips all in while FOX makes a tidy profit from it all.
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Postby Ngelmish » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:51 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
All nations fall, it's just a question of how. For us, it's the result of 40 years of ideological media gaslighting the public into listening to only them, as Zurk' and Kowani have shown. We've seen an entirely new reality being created, one parallel to actual reality and yet part of it.


Or.. it's the last gasp of a declining yet concentrated force in the religious right, who feel they're the most marginalised group in the USA.

“Surveys of those who identify with Christian nationalist beliefs consistently show that this group feels that they are subject to more discrimination and marginalization than any other group in society, including Islamic people, Black people, atheists, [and] Jewish people,” Gill said.

“They are experiencing their loss of prominence in American culture as an unacceptable attack on their beliefs – and this is driving much of the efforts we are seeing to cling on to power, undermine democracy, and fight for ‘religious freedom’ protections that apply only to them.”


Part of me wonders if the presidency of Barack Obama was somewhat negative in that it unleashed this torrent of hatred. The recent book and op-ed by John Boehner notes this anger and descent into conspiracy on the right started around '08. Part of me feels it merely accelerated things by bringing it all out into the open.

Seems the long trend of the southern strategy is coming to its toxic end, and rather than pivot away from it the Republicans are going chips all in while FOX makes a tidy profit from it all.


I mean you can't really present Obama as an outlier in that way -- the Republicans completely lost their mind when Bill Clinton was elected too; Gingrich, and other Republican leaders, constantly portrayed him as an illegitimate president. I'd chalk it up to the Reagan effect. The party desperately wanted to believe that their "revolution" would usher in a New Deal in reverse generational majority, and they threw a tantrum when they got only 12 straight years in the White House instead of 20.

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:07 pm

Ngelmish wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Or.. it's the last gasp of a declining yet concentrated force in the religious right, who feel they're the most marginalised group in the USA.

“Surveys of those who identify with Christian nationalist beliefs consistently show that this group feels that they are subject to more discrimination and marginalization than any other group in society, including Islamic people, Black people, atheists, [and] Jewish people,” Gill said.

“They are experiencing their loss of prominence in American culture as an unacceptable attack on their beliefs – and this is driving much of the efforts we are seeing to cling on to power, undermine democracy, and fight for ‘religious freedom’ protections that apply only to them.”


Part of me wonders if the presidency of Barack Obama was somewhat negative in that it unleashed this torrent of hatred. The recent book and op-ed by John Boehner notes this anger and descent into conspiracy on the right started around '08. Part of me feels it merely accelerated things by bringing it all out into the open.

Seems the long trend of the southern strategy is coming to its toxic end, and rather than pivot away from it the Republicans are going chips all in while FOX makes a tidy profit from it all.


I mean you can't really present Obama as an outlier in that way -- the Republicans completely lost their mind when Bill Clinton was elected too; Gingrich, and other Republican leaders, constantly portrayed him as an illegitimate president. I'd chalk it up to the Reagan effect. The party desperately wanted to believe that their "revolution" would usher in a New Deal in reverse generational majority, and they threw a tantrum when they got only 12 straight years in the White House instead of 20.


Maybe, but the whole birther conspiracy was pretty distinct in terms of questioning the legitimacy of a president that most people should have known was bullshit but went along with it given it stirred the base. I suppose the Clintons were accused of murdering people but that wasn't taken up in mainstream media as a serious question as much.

Ultimately it's part of a long trend of clinging to to particular demographic that is declining and, as it declines, the more rational aspect of that demographic drops away leaving an ever more toxic and concentrated base.
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Postby Senkaku » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:16 pm

Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.

[me, unable to stop thinking about The Nature of Belief Systems in Mass Publics lately] OH FVCK
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:16 pm

Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


The Republican Party is the Trump Party.
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Postby Salus Maior » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:26 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.


This is really not how I thought America would die lol, what a bizarre timeline


I would have thought our Caesar would have been a bit cooler. Maybe less stupid.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bombadil » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:30 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


The Republican Party is the Trump Party.


It's not all doom and gloom..

In the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll, only about three in 10 independents said they have a favorable view of Trump, among the lowest level recorded since his presidency. Most Americans -- about 60% -- also believe Biden won the November election fair and square, and said Trump should not run again.

Representative Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, one of Trump’s top Republican critics in Congress, has criticized the push to rewrite the history of the Capitol attack.

The disinformation effort is “such a dangerous, disgusting spin on reality,” Kinzinger wrote in a fundraising appeal to supporters last month, “and what’s even worse is that it goes unchallenged by so many in the Republican Party.”


Following Trump is no way to win back the American public, at least not for the presidency - the House and Senate are another thing given the loonier aspects of his support seem strong at a state level. For those states that swing right anyway, they're electing in crazier and crazier candidates.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:59 pm

Consumer Financial Protection Bureau proposes banning foreclosures until 2022
The CFPB’s proposal involves preventing foreclosure by providing a pre-foreclosure review period for those behind on their mortgage that would restrict loan servicers from starting foreclosures until 2022. The CFPB proposed setting up “guardrails” to protect loan servicers if mortgage borrowers default on their loans, including allowing servicers to provide homeowners with ways to lower their mortgage payments.

"We will do everything in our power to ensure servicers work with struggling families to find solutions that prevent avoidable foreclosures," Uejio added. Comments on the proposal must be made by May 10 and the rule could go into effect beginning in September.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) last week extended the nationwide eviction moratorium through June 30 as more than 10 million American currently face housing insecurity. The moratorium does not cancel unpaid rent, with renters still required to pay off their debts once the moratorium is lifted.

The Biden administration is currently working to distribute almost $40 billion to households that need it to cover rent and utilities.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:00 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The Republican Party is the Trump Party.


It's not all doom and gloom..

In the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll, only about three in 10 independents said they have a favorable view of Trump, among the lowest level recorded since his presidency. Most Americans -- about 60% -- also believe Biden won the November election fair and square, and said Trump should not run again.

Representative Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, one of Trump’s top Republican critics in Congress, has criticized the push to rewrite the history of the Capitol attack.

The disinformation effort is “such a dangerous, disgusting spin on reality,” Kinzinger wrote in a fundraising appeal to supporters last month, “and what’s even worse is that it goes unchallenged by so many in the Republican Party.”


Following Trump is no way to win back the American public, at least not for the presidency - the House and Senate are another thing given the loonier aspects of his support seem strong at a state level. For those states that swing right anyway, they're electing in crazier and crazier candidates.

You are gravely mistaken if you think their plan to regain power is to win popular majorities in free and fair elections, and we are all going to suffer because of such complacency not just on your part but on the part of a significant chunk of the ruling class

It is, in fact, all doom and gloom. A parallel society has been successfully constructed, reinforced against outside penetration, and whipped into a hateful frenzy, and now, like a tumor, it appears to be trying to kill its host
Last edited by Senkaku on Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
It's not all doom and gloom..

In the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll, only about three in 10 independents said they have a favorable view of Trump, among the lowest level recorded since his presidency. Most Americans -- about 60% -- also believe Biden won the November election fair and square, and said Trump should not run again.

Representative Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, one of Trump’s top Republican critics in Congress, has criticized the push to rewrite the history of the Capitol attack.

The disinformation effort is “such a dangerous, disgusting spin on reality,” Kinzinger wrote in a fundraising appeal to supporters last month, “and what’s even worse is that it goes unchallenged by so many in the Republican Party.”


Following Trump is no way to win back the American public, at least not for the presidency - the House and Senate are another thing given the loonier aspects of his support seem strong at a state level. For those states that swing right anyway, they're electing in crazier and crazier candidates.

You are gravely mistaken if you think their plan to regain power is to win popular majorities in free and fair elections, and we are all going to suffer because of such complacency not just on your part but on the part of a significant chunk of the ruling class

It is, in fact, all doom and gloom. A parallel society has been successfully constructed, reinforced against outside penetration, and whipped into a hateful frenzy, and now, like a tumor, it appears to be trying to kill its host

^Once your supporters necessarily reject the legitimacy of the government, actually taking over the government through legal means is no longer necessary.
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Postby Bombadil » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:18 pm

Senkaku wrote:You are gravely mistaken if you think their plan to regain power is to win popular majorities in free and fair elections, and we are all going to suffer because of such complacency not just on your part but on the part of a significant chunk of the ruling class

It is, in fact, all doom and gloom. A parallel society has been successfully constructed, reinforced against outside penetration, and whipped into a hateful frenzy, and now, like a tumor, it appears to be trying to kill its host


The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.
Last edited by Bombadil on Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Salus Maior
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Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:19 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Senkaku wrote:You are gravely mistaken if you think their plan to regain power is to win popular majorities in free and fair elections, and we are all going to suffer because of such complacency not just on your part but on the part of a significant chunk of the ruling class

It is, in fact, all doom and gloom. A parallel society has been successfully constructed, reinforced against outside penetration, and whipped into a hateful frenzy, and now, like a tumor, it appears to be trying to kill its host


The more toxic they become the more people will distance themselves, certainly in the middle. The US system is pretty resilient, as my father often said 'never underestimate the ability of the US to regenerate'.

Trump won on a fluke and was a one term president, I don't think his base is growing exactly, it's just they're enough in right leaning states to produce some awful representatives - they're a problem for sure but I doubt they have a long term future. As they lose grip they'll do worse things - this isn't the end of looniness - but those very acts will further alienate people.

I mean.. in a sense, in this hyper partisan world, 6 out of 10 Republicans believe the bullshit, that's still 4 out of 10 who do not when belief tends to fall strictly down party lines. Those 4 out of 10 are a risk to the Republican party, because if it continues down the line of crazy those 4 will leave.

Time will tell I guess.


I'm all for keeping a sense of hope for the future (we do need that, after all), we can't underestimate these people either.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:21 pm

North Washington Republic wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:I don't think I ever expected to see the day where the Republican party became so anti-business. What ever happened to capitalism?


Republicans think they can get more votes by being Trumpian populists than laissez-faire capitalists.


A correct belief. The number of people who support laissez-faire capitalism shrinks with each passing day. It's no coincidence that both the left and right have become populist.
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Comerciante
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Posts: 300
Founded: Dec 25, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Comerciante » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:25 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Kowani wrote:The disinfo campaign won

Three months after a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to try to overturn his November election loss, about half of Republicans believe the siege was largely a non-violent protest or was the handiwork of left-wing activists “trying to make Trump look bad,” a new Reuters/Ipsos poll has found.

Six in 10 Republicans also believe the false claim put out by Trump that November’s presidential election “was stolen” from him due to widespread voter fraud, and the same proportion of Republicans think he should run again in 2024, the March 30-31 poll showed.


We're doomed. For the 935,115th time, we're doomed.

At this point we should all start placing bets on what actually is going to finally do us in. My money is on COVID. The little stinker keeps changing up.
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