American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Idk that seems kind of hopeless. Me and the Trump fans aren't exactly on good terms and I still hold out hope that maybe this division will one day be a thing of the past.

That may one day be the case, but unfortunately I suspect it won’t be for the reasons anyone is hoping for.

You think there's gonna be war?

[Neutraligon]

The biggest issue with rural areas is that it is economically not really worth it to get large-scale infrastructure stuff out to them. Just getting the equipment and workers to them is hard enough, but then it also serves very few people. This is where the government is supposed to come in, possibly working in a public-private cooperation so that the private company does not lose out when supplying these things to those populations. Unfortunately, these rural areas are also the ones that tend to hate taxes, making paying for these projects even more difficult. Even for state governments, the reward is not worth the money. Add in the fact that rural areas do not vote for those who support using the government to fund infrastructure projects and you end up where we are. Why should dems push for infrastructure projects in rural areas when those rural areas are not their constituents, are costly to get that infrastructure to, and who support reducing the money that can be used to get such infrastructure out to them?

[Washington Resistance Army]

That may one day be the case, but unfortunately I suspect it won’t be for the reasons anyone is hoping for.

You think there's gonna be war?

I feel it's fair to argue there already is one. Look at the rate of shootings or other attacks that end up being tied to far-right sites, the Jan. 6th siege, Trump and Fox's rhetoric etc etc.

[Esthe]

That may one day be the case, but unfortunately I suspect it won’t be for the reasons anyone is hoping for.

You think there's gonna be war?

Frankly I’m surprised that the Capitol storming wasn’t the beginning of the Second Civil War.

[Punished UMN]

That may one day be the case, but unfortunately I suspect it won’t be for the reasons anyone is hoping for.

You think there's gonna be war?

Tucker is basically openly spouting fascist ideology and he's the most watched television personality, so that is not a good sign.

[San Lumen]

How about you elect socialists to office from your area?

And what would they do about it exactly?

Get the changes you want.

[Senkaku]

That may one day be the case, but unfortunately I suspect it won’t be for the reasons anyone is hoping for.

You think there's gonna be war?

I mean, if you wait long enough anywhere where humans live, eventually there usually is, but that’s not what I was saying— I think the current division between Trump supporters and the rest of the country will be supplanted by deeper divisions still, and that he as an individual will start to become less significant (eclipsed by someone scarier or by a more coherent ideological agenda or both). Or we’ll have a new type of regime in power, and the divisions within democratic politics will become sort of meaningless in the new context.

[Punished UMN]

And what would they do about it exactly?

Get the changes you want.

How, exactly?

[Kowani]

I also want to say that urban areas have it pretty fucking bad too. My "what's your shining city on a hill?" comment was intended to bring up that the government and businesses are destroying large parts of the urban population as well, often with similar means. Think of the Southside of Chicago or Flint. It's not necessarily an urban vs rural thing, but there is a cadre of urban liberal intelligentsia that only really cares about wealthy (predominantly white) neighborhoods in major cities. A lot of times urban folk in-general get caught up in that dispute, but it's really only a handful of you and that's why it is infuriating to see a lot of poor urban liberals denounce us when the real enemy is in your business districts.

I went over this once off-site, but it's really poignant to this discussion, so I'm gonna bring it back again.
All of these maps are from Chicago.

So as you can see, all the wealth is concentrated in that one corner in the Northeast (and a slice in the bottom)
This is bad. Very much so.
But if we overlay that with a racial map...then the picture becomes clearer-and worse.

See, everyone here is segregated off. There aren't really "mixed" neighborhoods- it's a bunch of racial enclaves. It's bad, but people can still mingle outside of it. You gotta go to work, drop your kids off at school, go shopping, etc
So let's talk connection.

Here's your transit map of Chicago.

Different neighborhoods-different classes and races-use different transits. And there's only one line that runs from the "white" are into the "black" one. Hispanics are a bit more complicated, because they're on the periphery of the city-but the effect is still the same.
you have to purposely seek out the lines heading into Hispanic neighborhoods

So what incentive do you, upper-class white person, have to go into these underserved areas, filled with people who you don't think are like you-in race, class, or culture, to interact with and see their humanity? The whole city is set up-purposely-so you don't have to interact with them.
Even if the news wasn't pumping out stories about violence and robbery every day, why would you go there?
You don't have to. You can get everything you need in your nice, quiet, peaceful rich neighborhood. And you don't have to think about everyone else outside of it.

[San Lumen]

Get the changes you want.

How, exactly?

Getting money appropriated to your area, introducing polices your want. The things a representative does.

[Senkaku]

You think there's gonna be war?

I feel it's fair to argue there already is one. Look at the rate of shootings or other attacks that end up being tied to far-right sites, the Jan. 6th siege, Trump and Fox's rhetoric etc etc.

UCDP sets the casualty threshold for civil war at 25 battle deaths per year— you can argue over the other criteria, but we’re clearly already in some sort of armed conflict, even if we don’t have a clearly defined opposition (which isn’t strictly necessary anyways; fewer and fewer people dispute the Mexican cartels have caused civil war conditions and it’s not like they have a clear ideological program).

[Neutraligon]

I also want to say that urban areas have it pretty fucking bad too. My "what's your shining city on a hill?" comment was intended to bring up that the government and businesses are destroying large parts of the urban population as well, often with similar means. Think of the Southside of Chicago or Flint. It's not necessarily an urban vs rural thing, but there is a cadre of urban liberal intelligentsia that only really cares about wealthy (predominantly white) neighborhoods in major cities. A lot of times urban folk in-general get caught up in that dispute, but it's really only a handful of you and that's why it is infuriating to see a lot of poor urban liberals denounce us when the real enemy is in your business districts.

I went over this once off-site, but it's really poignant to this discussion, so I'm gonna bring it back again.
All of these maps are from Chicago.

So as you can see, all the wealth is concentrated in that one corner in the Northeast (and a slice in the bottom)
This is bad. Very much so.
But if we overlay that with a racial map...then the picture becomes clearer-and worse.

See, everyone here is segregated off. There aren't really "mixed" neighborhoods- it's a bunch of racial enclaves. It's bad, but people can still mingle outside of it. You gotta go to work, drop your kids off at school, go shopping, etc
So let's talk connection.

Here's your transit map of Chicago.

Different neighborhoods-different classes and races-use different transits. And there's only one line that runs from the "white" are into the "black" one. Hispanics are a bit more complicated, because they're on the periphery of the city-but the effect is still the same.
you have to purposely seek out the lines heading into Hispanic neighborhoods

So what incentive do you, upper-class white person, have to go into these underserved areas, filled with people who you don't think are like you-in race, class, or culture, to interact with and see their humanity? The whole city is set up-purposely-so you don't have to interact with them.
Even if the news wasn't pumping out stories about violence and robbery every day, why would you go there?
You don't have to. You can get everything you need in your nice, quiet, peaceful rich neighborhood. And you don't have to think about everyone else outside of it.

In Chicago there is only really one reason, the university is in the middle of a majority black area. It infamously has to tell students not to really go beyond a certain number of blocks of the campus because you get into gang land.

[Punished UMN]

I also want to say that urban areas have it pretty fucking bad too. My "what's your shining city on a hill?" comment was intended to bring up that the government and businesses are destroying large parts of the urban population as well, often with similar means. Think of the Southside of Chicago or Flint. It's not necessarily an urban vs rural thing, but there is a cadre of urban liberal intelligentsia that only really cares about wealthy (predominantly white) neighborhoods in major cities. A lot of times urban folk in-general get caught up in that dispute, but it's really only a handful of you and that's why it is infuriating to see a lot of poor urban liberals denounce us when the real enemy is in your business districts.

I went over this once off-site, but it's really poignant to this discussion, so I'm gonna bring it back again.
All of these maps are from Chicago.

So as you can see, all the wealth is concentrated in that one corner in the Northeast (and a slice in the bottom)
This is bad. Very much so.
But if we overlay that with a racial map...then the picture becomes clearer-and worse.

See, everyone here is segregated off. There aren't really "mixed" neighborhoods- it's a bunch of racial enclaves. It's bad, but people can still mingle outside of it. You gotta go to work, drop your kids off at school, go shopping, etc
So let's talk connection.

Here's your transit map of Chicago.

Different neighborhoods-different classes and races-use different transits. And there's only one line that runs from the "white" are into the "black" one. Hispanics are a bit more complicated, because they're on the periphery of the city-but the effect is still the same.
you have to purposely seek out the lines heading into Hispanic neighborhoods

So what incentive do you, upper-class white person, have to go into these underserved areas, filled with people who you don't think are like you-in race, class, or culture, to interact with and see their humanity? The whole city is set up-purposely-so you don't have to interact with them.
Even if the news wasn't pumping out stories about violence and robbery every day, why would you go there?
You don't have to. You can get everything you need in your nice, quiet, peaceful rich neighborhood. And you don't have to think about everyone else outside of it.

Exactly, de facto racial and class segregation isn't only alive, it's thriving, mostly just created by finance power and only light nudging from the state.

[Kowani]

i have a plan
it's just unconstitutional

Oh no, we brought the tankie out in Kowani.

the hammer of the state shall crush the murdoch machine!

The biggest issue with rural areas is that it is economically not really worth it to get large-scale infrastructure stuff out to them. Just getting the equipment and workers to them is hard enough, but then it also serves very few people. This is where the government is supposed to come in, possibly working in a public-private cooperation so that the private company does not lose out when supplying these things to those populations. Unfortunately, these rural areas are also the ones that tend to hate taxes, making paying for these projects even more difficult. Even for state governments, the reward is not worth the money. Add in the fact that rural areas do not vote for those who support using the government to fund infrastructure projects and you end up where we are. Why should dems push for infrastructure projects in rural areas when those rural areas are not their constituents, are costly to get that infrastructure to, and who support reducing the money that can be used to get such infrastructure out to them?

because it's the right thing to do?
because it makes the country stronger and safer?
because they get electoral benefits from doing it?
because infrastructure hasn't been coded as going to "undeserving minorities" yet, so there's no white backlash?
there's like nothing to argue against here-

[Neutraligon]

I went over this once off-site, but it's really poignant to this discussion, so I'm gonna bring it back again.
All of these maps are from Chicago.

So as you can see, all the wealth is concentrated in that one corner in the Northeast (and a slice in the bottom)
This is bad. Very much so.
But if we overlay that with a racial map...then the picture becomes clearer-and worse.

See, everyone here is segregated off. There aren't really "mixed" neighborhoods- it's a bunch of racial enclaves. It's bad, but people can still mingle outside of it. You gotta go to work, drop your kids off at school, go shopping, etc
So let's talk connection.

Here's your transit map of Chicago.

Different neighborhoods-different classes and races-use different transits. And there's only one line that runs from the "white" are into the "black" one. Hispanics are a bit more complicated, because they're on the periphery of the city-but the effect is still the same.
you have to purposely seek out the lines heading into Hispanic neighborhoods

So what incentive do you, upper-class white person, have to go into these underserved areas, filled with people who you don't think are like you-in race, class, or culture, to interact with and see their humanity? The whole city is set up-purposely-so you don't have to interact with them.
Even if the news wasn't pumping out stories about violence and robbery every day, why would you go there?
You don't have to. You can get everything you need in your nice, quiet, peaceful rich neighborhood. And you don't have to think about everyone else outside of it.

Exactly, de facto racial and class segregation isn't only alive, it's thriving, mostly just created by finance power and only light nudging from the state.

Or in places like New York, intentionally created by the state decades ago.

[Punished UMN]

How, exactly?

Getting money appropriated to your area, introducing polices your want. The things a representative does.

No offense but you have a very idealistic view of how that actually functions and I don't think it's unrelated to the fact that you live in perhaps the most important part of the country financially.

[Punished UMN]

Exactly, de facto racial and class segregation isn't only alive, it's thriving, mostly just created by finance power and only light nudging from the state.

Or in places like New York, intentionally created by the state decades ago.

Yes, often created by the state, but the state did not require mandates to maintain it. Generations upon generations of racial economic stratification is every bit as efficient as state power in maintaining these racial institutions.

[Neutraligon]

Or in places like New York, intentionally created by the state decades ago.

Yes, often created by the state, but the state did not require mandates to maintain it. Generations upon generations of racial economic stratification is every bit as efficient as state power in maintaining these racial institutions.

Oh agreed. The reason I said it was created by the state is because often certain types of infrastructure projects are planned through already existing poor neighborhoods. Since these places lack the economic power to contest these infrastructure projects they of course end up being built, and then no one wants to live in those neighborhoods because no one wants to live right next to a major highway, or near really loud trains. Now other infrastructure projects can build up an area, like the Highline also in New York, or the tunnel in Massachusettes.

[San Lumen]

Getting money appropriated to your area, introducing polices your want. The things a representative does.

No offense but you have a very idealistic view of how that actually functions and I don't think it's unrelated to the fact that you live in perhaps the most important part of the country financially.

How do you expect to get the changes you want? Your county and town doesn’t exist on it’s own. Your tax money shouldn’t go to maintaining state highways or other things operated by the state?

[Kowani]

Exactly, de facto racial and class segregation isn't only alive, it's thriving, mostly just created by finance power and only light nudging from the state.

Or in places like New York, intentionally created by the state decades ago.

it wasn't just NY
it was pretty much everywhere
even if you're aware of redlining, I'd still recommend the book The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein
probably the best explanation I can give for the condition of cities in the US, because it goes so much farther than just explicit-though there was much of that-government involvement

[Punished UMN]

No offense but you have a very idealistic view of how that actually functions and I don't think it's unrelated to the fact that you live in perhaps the most important part of the country financially.

How do you expect to get the changes you want? Your county and town doesn’t exist on it’s own. Your tax money shouldn’t go to maintaining state highways or other things operated by the state?

What gave you the impression that I believe we will get the changes I want? I know when we're beat.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

You think there's gonna be war?

Tucker is basically openly spouting fascist ideology and he's the most watched television personality, so that is not a good sign.

Even sadder is that the Trump cultists are now considering Fox news ""too liberal"" beacuse they called the election for Biden.

To the cultists, anyone who says Biden won legitimately is ""Far left"".

This is what I feared all along when I criticized the culture of anti sjwism.

This is why I hated anti sjw's and continue to do so.

And thats why I had that outburst.

I'm just tired of this nonsense. Make it end.

[Neutraligon]

Or in places like New York, intentionally created by the state decades ago.

it wasn't just NY
it was pretty much everywhere
even if you're aware of redlining, I'd still recommend the book The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein
probably the best explanation I can give for the condition of cities in the US, because it goes so much farther than just explicit-though there was much of that-government involvement

Oh I am aware. I grew up in an area that used to be highly Jewish. That area was redlined, and along with many of the black neighborhoods, was one of the cheaper places to live in the "suburb" Even now that housing prices have skyrocketed, it is still cheaper to buy houses there, despite being in a great location.

[San Lumen]

How do you expect to get the changes you want? Your county and town doesn’t exist on it’s own. Your tax money shouldn’t go to maintaining state highways or other things operated by the state?

What gave you the impression that I believe we will get the changes I want? I know when we're beat.

So you’d rather just complain about how your town supposedly gets nothing and how your views aren’t represented. That’s called armchair activism.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What gave you the impression that I believe we will get the changes I want? I know when we're beat.

So you’d rather just complain about how your town supposedly gets nothing and how your views aren’t represented. That’s called armchair activism.

No it's called realism lol. Your idealistic view of government is not how things work.