American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Anarchists want government, not state's. Apparently, police and military being elected and more deregulated means no state.

The state is just monopoly on legitimate violence.

So do you think deregulated elected armies and police count as states of no? If we run out of space, there's the telegram thing.

[Punished UMN]

The state is just monopoly on legitimate violence.

So do you think deregulated elected armies and police count as states of no? If we run out of space, there's the telegram thing.

Yeah, they are states. If you have an entity whose purpose is to use socially organized and directed violence to the exclusion of other violence, then you have a state.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

Anarcho-bullshit like this makes genuine anti-authoritarianism look silly, you know.

The police are funded, retained, and trained by the state. As recent attempts at civilian oversight of police have shown, they are strongly opposed to being held responsible by the communities they police. You could have a legitimate argument if you wanted to simp for the state and argue the merits of statism, but even if they serve a purpose in upholding public order (to make clear, I'm not saying that's my position, but just setting aside that point for now), they still uphold the state. Those are not mutually exclusive.

[Ifreann]

Do you have an answer to the question, or are you just going to act like it is not a sincere or legitimate question to ask?

I'm not going to answer questions asked in bad faith. You knew damn well what I was talking about but chose to attack my phrasing rather than my argument. Don't act innocent. You do this shit all the time.

There's nothing bad faith about it. Unless you can argue that law enforcement isn't state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line then there must be more to your objections against authoritarianism than just the fact it entails state-sanctioned violence to keep people in line. But I guess we'll never know.

[Nilokeras]

Yeah, so they weren't really anarchists. Anarchy by definition is a rejection of the state.

Anarchists want government, not state's. Apparently, police and military being elected and more deregulated means no state.

please do literally any reading of what actual anarchists think

[Just-An-Illusion]

Because the western world order is so much better lol. At least I can vote while the world dies and society slowly collapses!

You would prefer to be tortured by the secret police for wrongthink while the world dies and society slowly collapses?

You picked a weird hill to die on, my man.

Authoritarian people are weird like that... They're the type of people who worship North Korea or Stalin. I wouldn't take them seriously.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

The state is just monopoly on legitimate violence.

So do you think deregulated elected armies and police count as states of no? If we run out of space, there's the telegram thing.

Weber's definition of the state as a monopoly of violence is certainly popular, but not the only one. Trying to define is and isn't a state is pointless because the definition of a state isn't even clear. More instructive is to look at what anarchists believe. Plenty believe in opposition to the monopoly of violence, but some, especially anarcho-syndicalists, do not necessarily consider that to be the definition of the state and do replicate a monopoly of violence, even if it is very much different in character.

[Gravlen]

My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

That's true of every political system. Don't pay your taxes and see what happens.

*Looks at billionaires*

Well... >.<

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Anarchists want government, not state's. Apparently, police and military being elected and more deregulated means no state.

please do literally any reading of what actual anarchists think

How is Social Peace Achieved Section, Specifically

And this

just call the anarchist cops lol

They support popular militia, basically police and army but the community regulates them. And clearly have no problem with assemblies as seen in Free Territory Ukraine and arguably Rojava.

[Greater Cesnica]

Anarcho-bullshit like this makes genuine anti-authoritarianism look silly, you know.

The state by its intrinsic nature espouses coercion on some level. The police are fundamentally the hounds of tyrants.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Also, why is the thread not closing?

[The Temple of the Computer]

Also, why is the thread not closing?

The Mods have not gotten around to it.

[Gravlen]

Also, why is the thread not closing?

It doesn't happen automagically.

We need for someone to make a new thread, and a mod to lock this one up and turn off the lights.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Also, why is the thread not closing?

I think it has to be closed manually. Anyways, addressing your arguments, some anarchists do believe what you said. Some don't. It's a spectrum.

[The Temple of the Computer]

Also, why is the thread not closing?

It doesn't happen automagically.

We need for someone to make a new thread, and a mod to lock this one up and turn off the lights.

I will be the one to make the new thread!

[Nilokeras]

How is Social Peace Achieved Section, Specifically

And this

just call the anarchist cops lol

They support popular militia, basically police and army but the community regulates them. And clearly have no problem with assemblies as seen in Free Territory Ukraine and arguably Rojava.

To quote from your own thing:

Historically, Anarchist societies have replaced professional military and police forces with a part time popular militia which looks out for the safety of the community and would take a person accused of a crime and their accuser before a popular tribunal where any dispute could be arbitrated and any criminal act could be adjudicated and rectified. The militias work much like a neighborhood watch except they serve the community rather than being an instrument of police control and manipulation over the community. Popular tribunals work much like binding arbitration in a labor dispute. Popular militias are made up of volunteers from the community and are delegated their responsibility by the community who can revoke it at will.

That is not 'police and military being elected and more deregulated'. And my dude, that post from Kubra was what people in the know call a joke.

[Senkaku]

Because the western world order is so much better lol. At least I can vote while the world dies and society slowly collapses!

You would prefer to be tortured by the secret police for wrongthink while the world dies and society slowly collapses?

You picked a weird hill to die on, my man.

Those things are not incompatible with what WRA said lol

[Greater Cesnica]

New thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=506492

Will create a poll and expand OP shortly.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

How is Social Peace Achieved Section, Specifically

And this



They support popular militia, basically police and army but the community regulates them. And clearly have no problem with assemblies as seen in Free Territory Ukraine and arguably Rojava.

To quote from your own thing:

Historically, Anarchist societies have replaced professional military and police forces with a part time popular militia which looks out for the safety of the community and would take a person accused of a crime and their accuser before a popular tribunal where any dispute could be arbitrated and any criminal act could be adjudicated and rectified. The militias work much like a neighborhood watch except they serve the community rather than being an instrument of police control and manipulation over the community. Popular tribunals work much like binding arbitration in a labor dispute. Popular militias are made up of volunteers from the community and are delegated their responsibility by the community who can revoke it at will.

That is not 'police and military being elected and more deregulated'. And my dude, that post from Kubra was what people in the know call a joke.

Okay, so they arrest people, and put them on a community tribunal, who are also accountable to the people. That sounds like police, run by the people, and the tribunal the judge and jury.

[Esthe]

To quote from your own thing:



That is not 'police and military being elected and more deregulated'. And my dude, that post from Kubra was what people in the know call a joke.

Okay, so they arrest people, and put them on a community tribunal, who are also accountable to the people. That sounds like police, run by the people, and the tribunal the judge and jury.

I mean, as long as it’s racially diverse, you’re gonna get a fair trial.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Okay, so they arrest people, and put them on a community tribunal, who are also accountable to the people. That sounds like police, run by the people, and the tribunal the judge and jury.

I mean, as long as it’s racially diverse, you’re gonna get a fair trial.

Well, maybe, but still, this is literally police and the judicial system but more democratic.

[Genivaria]

You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?

But... the police enforce the state. How can you be an anarchist and for the idea of police? That's an oxymoron!

Anarchism doesn't mean opposing police, it means opposing all unjustified hierarchies.
It should go without saying that most 'crimes' that currently exist would be labeled such and the law enforcement would be a radically different creature than what we see today.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

But... the police enforce the state. How can you be an anarchist and for the idea of police? That's an oxymoron!

Anarchism doesn't mean opposing police, it means opposing all unjustified hierarchies.
It should go without saying that most 'crimes' that currently exist would be labeled such and the law enforcement would be a radically different creature than what we see today.

You swapped ideologies again.

[Esthe]

Anarchism doesn't mean opposing police, it means opposing all unjustified hierarchies.
It should go without saying that most 'crimes' that currently exist would be labeled such and the law enforcement would be a radically different creature than what we see today.

You swapped ideologies again.

He can’t make up his mind!

[Exalted Inquellian State]

You swapped ideologies again.

He can’t make up his mind!

Me after abandoning left-wing accelerationism be like: