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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Fauzjhia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 815
Founded: Jul 29, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fauzjhia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:55 am

Kedri wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:
Joe Manchin might need republican voters, but the GOP does not need him, they don't need to negotiate with him.


Exactly, which is why he has to work with them, or else he's out of a job.


but the problem is that the republican do not need him, they would prefer to see a republican in his seat, so they will not negotiate, they have no reason to.
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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66192
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:58 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:He supports a dictatorship by environmentalists though. Imagine a secret police arresting you for failure to recycle


My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

Imagine writing a paragraph because of a joke. Peak Lib-left vibes
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6412
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Atheris » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:59 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

Imagine writing a paragraph because of a joke. Peak Lib-left vibes

can confirm, lib-left
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 146730
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:59 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:He supports a dictatorship by environmentalists though. Imagine a secret police arresting you for failure to recycle


My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 49544
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:59 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:He supports a dictatorship by environmentalists though. Imagine a secret police arresting you for failure to recycle


My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.


That's true of every political system. Don't pay your taxes and see what happens.
Greco-Roman Pagan, Environmentalist, Agrarian, Revolutionary, Gun Manufacturer, State Socialist

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40118
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:59 am

Kedri wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:
Joe Manchin might need republican voters, but the GOP does not need him, they don't need to negotiate with him.


Exactly, which is why he has to work with them, or else he's out of a job.

manchin's mentioned on at least one occasion that he doesn't care if he loses his seat anymore
hell, he almost didn't run in 2018-they had to cajole him into doing it- and it's inaccurate to expect him to be making calculations on that basis
we must look through the lens of the manchinite ideology, not just cynical political maneuvering
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
"“I did not attend his funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
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it's all propaganda

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Exalted Inquellian State
Minister
 
Posts: 3180
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:59 am

Ifreann wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?
My Kaiserreich Cold War RP-https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=507613&sid=a338bded6a6009aba44e8b2d0d1d04c4

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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66192
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:00 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?

Elected police? What the?
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Punished UMN
Senator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:01 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?

That's not even coherent. You can't be an anarchist if you decide the state is fine as long as it's elected. That's just liberalism lol
Eastern Orthodox Christian. Prudish. Low-key bisexual. Purgatorial universalist.
Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Absolute pacifist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize.
The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on it, keep going.
Pro: The fundamental dignitas of the human spirit as expressed through its self-actualization in theosis. Anti: Faustian-Demonic Space Anarcho-Capitalism with Italo-Futurist Characteristics

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Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6412
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Atheris » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:01 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?

But... the police enforce the state. How can you be an anarchist and for the idea of police? That's an oxymoron!
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Lady Victory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1165
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Lady Victory » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:02 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

Imagine writing a paragraph because of a joke. Peak Lib-left vibes


If you think I'm a Leftist then you evidently don't know much about me or the Left.

Ifreann wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?


Anarcho-bullshit like this makes genuine anti-authoritarianism look silly, you know.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.


That's true of every political system. Don't pay your taxes and see what happens.


There's a difference between being arrested for not paying your taxes and being shot dead in the streets for protesting a rigged election.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic NationalistDefensive Democrat ☆ Transwoman ☆ Christian ☆
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Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21867
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:02 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
You would prefer to be tortured by the secret police for wrongthink while the world dies and society slowly collapses?

You picked a weird hill to die on, my man.

He supports a dictatorship by environmentalists though. Imagine a secret police arresting you for failure to recycle

sounds good to me, given that the alternative is a horrible collective death for the species
Last edited by Senkaku on Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
haters will see you growing on a finite planet and say you can't grow infinitely

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 49544
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:03 am

Lady Victory wrote:There's a difference between being arrested for not paying your taxes and being shot dead in the streets for protesting a rigged election.


No, instead you're just shot in the street for being black and all sorts of wonderful things. All politics, barring maybe some extremely pacifistic forms of anarchism, are inherently rooted in violence. This isn't even a controversial take.
Greco-Roman Pagan, Environmentalist, Agrarian, Revolutionary, Gun Manufacturer, State Socialist

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Exalted Inquellian State
Minister
 
Posts: 3180
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:04 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Exalted Inquellian State wrote:You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?

That's not even coherent. You can't be an anarchist if you decide the state is fine as long as it's elected. That's just liberalism lol

Anarchists are fine with armies, as long as orders are up for interpretation and soldiers elect their superiors. The Free Territory in Ukraine actually had an elected assembly too.
My Kaiserreich Cold War RP-https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=507613&sid=a338bded6a6009aba44e8b2d0d1d04c4

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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66192
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:04 am

Senkaku wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:He supports a dictatorship by environmentalists though. Imagine a secret police arresting you for failure to recycle

sounds good to me, given that the alternative is a horrible collective death for the species

“You are under arrest for driving a gas consuming vehicle. Do not resist you will be reeducated”
Last edited by Thermodolia on Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Punished UMN
Senator
 
Posts: 4647
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:That's not even coherent. You can't be an anarchist if you decide the state is fine as long as it's elected. That's just liberalism lol

Anarchists are fine with armies, as long as orders are up for interpretation and soldiers elect their superiors. The Free Territory in Ukraine actually had an elected assembly too.

Yeah, so they weren't really anarchists. Anarchy by definition is a rejection of the state.
Eastern Orthodox Christian. Prudish. Low-key bisexual. Purgatorial universalist.
Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Absolute pacifist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize.
The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on it, keep going.
Pro: The fundamental dignitas of the human spirit as expressed through its self-actualization in theosis. Anti: Faustian-Demonic Space Anarcho-Capitalism with Italo-Futurist Characteristics

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Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12481
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Andsed » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Senkaku wrote:sounds good to me, given that the alternative is a horrible collective death for the species

You are under arrest for driving a gas consuming vehicle. Do not resist you will be reeducated

I know this is probably a joke, but I would think a dictatorship to fight climate change would be more concerned with shutting down fossil fuel plants.
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40118
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?


Anarcho-bullshit like this makes genuine anti-authoritarianism look silly, you know.

...wait no, he's right

Thermodolia wrote:
Senkaku wrote:sounds good to me, given that the alternative is a horrible collective death for the species

“You are under arrest for driving a gas consuming vehicle. Do not resist you will be reeducated”

we shall use this "revenue" to build railroads
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
"“I did not attend his funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
it's all propaganda

Headline of the day: Daniel Hale, man who exposed illegal US drone warfare program, sentenced to 45 months in prison

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Lady Victory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1165
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Lady Victory » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:06 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:There's a difference between being arrested for not paying your taxes and being shot dead in the streets for protesting a rigged election.


No, instead you're just shot in the street for being black and all sorts of wonderful things. All politics, barring maybe some extremely pacifistic forms of anarchism, are inherently rooted in violence. This isn't even a controversial take.


Your Americentrism is showing.
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Metal is For Everyone!
She/Her - Call me LV
Rojava and Atheris Did Nothing Wrong

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 146730
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:06 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

You do realize some anarchists aren't against police as long as it's elected, right?

Don't know what the relevance of this comment is meant to be, but yes, I am aware of that.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66192
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:06 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Imagine writing a paragraph because of a joke. Peak Lib-left vibes


If you think I'm a Leftist then you evidently don't know much about me or the Left.


No I don’t think you’re a leftist, I think you can’t take a joke. Which is a stereotype of Lib-left types. No humor and novels of writing because someone made a joke
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Lady Victory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1165
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Lady Victory » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:07 am

Kowani wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:


Anarcho-bullshit like this makes genuine anti-authoritarianism look silly, you know.

...wait no, he's right


He's *technically* right, but he knows damn well that wasn't what I was talking about.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic NationalistDefensive Democrat ☆ Transwoman ☆ Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Metal is For Everyone!
She/Her - Call me LV
Rojava and Atheris Did Nothing Wrong

The User Formerly Known as Trollzyn the Infinite

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 49544
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:08 am

Lady Victory wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
No, instead you're just shot in the street for being black and all sorts of wonderful things. All politics, barring maybe some extremely pacifistic forms of anarchism, are inherently rooted in violence. This isn't even a controversial take.


Your Americentrism is showing.


That's not Americentrism. You literally cannot have a state without the ability for the state to use violence to defend and ensure its own existence and the upholding of its laws and treaties and such things. This is basic polsci.
Greco-Roman Pagan, Environmentalist, Agrarian, Revolutionary, Gun Manufacturer, State Socialist

User avatar
Lady Victory
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1165
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Lady Victory » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:08 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
If you think I'm a Leftist then you evidently don't know much about me or the Left.


No I don’t think you’re a leftist, I think you can’t take a joke. Which is a stereotype of Lib-left types. No humor and novels of writing because someone made a joke


I can take a joke when I know it's a joke. The way I read it was as mocking condescension, which I have a low tolerance for.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic NationalistDefensive Democrat ☆ Transwoman ☆ Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Metal is For Everyone!
She/Her - Call me LV
Rojava and Atheris Did Nothing Wrong

The User Formerly Known as Trollzyn the Infinite

User avatar
Atheris
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6412
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Atheris » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:08 am

Ifreann wrote:
Lady Victory wrote:
My guy, it literally does not matter who is running the dictatorship. An authoritarian system cannot survive without state-sanctioned violence and terrorism to keep people in line. This is the inherent nature of a dictatorship. The only way to circumvent this is by either brainwashing the populace into total obedience to the state or by distracting them with mindless entertainment to keep them docile and apathetic. Neither of which are as effective. It doesn't matter who you put in charge and give unlimited power, they will become tyrants. They will always become tyrants. They have to become tyrants or else they won't survive. This is how authoritarian systems work and it's why they should be destroyed.

What are the police, if not state-sanctioned violence meant to keep people in line?

ah, yes
statist totalitarianism meant to keep dissent in check
such as murder
and theft
and domestic abuse
and gang wars
and assault
#FreeNSGRojava
Don't talk to Moderators. Don't associate with Moderators. Don't trust moderators. Moderators lie.
NEW VISAYAN ISLANDS SHOULD RESIGN! HOLD JANNIES ACCOUNTABLE!

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