American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

[Zurkerx]

Liz Cheney told the truth. Republicans must decide whether they value Trump over it.

NEXT WEEK may bring a defining moment for the Republican Party. Rep. Liz Cheney (Wyo.), the third-ranking House Republican, is all but certain to face a vote to remove her from her leadership position, perhaps as early as May 12. The underlying question is simple: Is the GOP a party in which embracing lies about the United States’ system of government is a prerequisite for leadership?

A strong conservative on policy, Ms. Cheney faces punishment for refusing to embrace, or at least to accept with silence, the falsehood that the Democrats stole the 2020 presidential election. Ms. Cheney is among the few Republican patriots for whom former president Donald Trump’s toxic lies about voter fraud, and the Jan. 6 invasion of the Capitol they sparked, were a red line. After the former president insisted on Monday that his failure in last year’s election is “THE BIG LIE,” Ms. Cheney shot back: “The 2020 presidential election was not stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading THE BIG LIE, turning their back on the rule of law, and poisoning our democratic system.”

In a Post op-ed posted Wednesday, Ms. Cheney spelled out the stakes for her party: “The Republican Party is at a turning point, and Republicans must decide whether we are going to choose truth and fidelity to the Constitution,” she wrote. “While embracing or ignoring Trump’s statements may seem attractive to some for fundraising and political purposes, that approach will do profound long-term damage to our party and our country.”

Ms. Cheney’s statement is not just based in fact, it is about the only decent response any self-respecting citizen can have to Mr. Trump’s campaign to discredit U.S. democracy. But it transgresses the emerging GOP orthodoxy that all Republicans must cater to Mr. Trump’s petulant refusal to admit he lost. Caught on a hot mic, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) complained Tuesday, “I’ve had it with her. . . . someone just has to bring a motion.” By Wednesday, Rep. Steve Scalise (La.), the No. 2 Republican in the House, had endorsed replacing Ms. Cheney with Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.).

Ms. Stefanik, who is reportedly working the phones to whip up support, is among those who reinforced Mr. Trump’s lies even after the Jan. 6 violence, voting against Congress’s acceptance of the electoral college vote. She may reap the benefits now, but, at 36, she has perhaps decades of political life to anticipate. Her tactical embrace of Trumpism, including the Big Lie, has permanently stained her.

House Republicans refused to discipline Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) for spreading dangerous and sometimes bigoted conspiracy theories, instead giving her plum committee assignments. They have been mostly quiet after revelations that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is under investigation for alleged disgusting sex crimes. Mr. Gaetz still sits on the Judiciary Committee. But Ms. Cheney’s willingness to tell the truth about the integrity of the nation’s democratic system is apparently a scandal worthy of extraordinary punishment.

Ms. Cheney is by no means guaranteed to lose her position. Two-thirds of GOP House members, many of whom secretly agree with her, would have to vote to remove her. They must ask themselves whether they want to pledge their allegiance even more fully to a single man, over truth, principle and the integrity of U.S. democracy.

This section in particular is really shows what the party has become:

House Republicans refused to discipline Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) for spreading dangerous and sometimes bigoted conspiracy theories, instead giving her plum committee assignments. They have been mostly quiet after revelations that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is under investigation for alleged disgusting sex crimes. Mr. Gaetz still sits on the Judiciary Committee. But Ms. Cheney’s willingness to tell the truth about the integrity of the nation’s democratic system is apparently a scandal worthy of extraordinary punishment.

It's truly disgusting. Needless to say, it seems Cheney will be replaced.

There are no brakes on the Hell Train!

Fuck.

Jumps off before the inevitable crash.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Liz Cheney told the truth. Republicans must decide whether they value Trump over it.

NEXT WEEK may bring a defining moment for the Republican Party. Rep. Liz Cheney (Wyo.), the third-ranking House Republican, is all but certain to face a vote to remove her from her leadership position, perhaps as early as May 12. The underlying question is simple: Is the GOP a party in which embracing lies about the United States’ system of government is a prerequisite for leadership?

A strong conservative on policy, Ms. Cheney faces punishment for refusing to embrace, or at least to accept with silence, the falsehood that the Democrats stole the 2020 presidential election. Ms. Cheney is among the few Republican patriots for whom former president Donald Trump’s toxic lies about voter fraud, and the Jan. 6 invasion of the Capitol they sparked, were a red line. After the former president insisted on Monday that his failure in last year’s election is “THE BIG LIE,” Ms. Cheney shot back: “The 2020 presidential election was not stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading THE BIG LIE, turning their back on the rule of law, and poisoning our democratic system.”

In a Post op-ed posted Wednesday, Ms. Cheney spelled out the stakes for her party: “The Republican Party is at a turning point, and Republicans must decide whether we are going to choose truth and fidelity to the Constitution,” she wrote. “While embracing or ignoring Trump’s statements may seem attractive to some for fundraising and political purposes, that approach will do profound long-term damage to our party and our country.”

Ms. Cheney’s statement is not just based in fact, it is about the only decent response any self-respecting citizen can have to Mr. Trump’s campaign to discredit U.S. democracy. But it transgresses the emerging GOP orthodoxy that all Republicans must cater to Mr. Trump’s petulant refusal to admit he lost. Caught on a hot mic, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) complained Tuesday, “I’ve had it with her. . . . someone just has to bring a motion.” By Wednesday, Rep. Steve Scalise (La.), the No. 2 Republican in the House, had endorsed replacing Ms. Cheney with Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.).

Ms. Stefanik, who is reportedly working the phones to whip up support, is among those who reinforced Mr. Trump’s lies even after the Jan. 6 violence, voting against Congress’s acceptance of the electoral college vote. She may reap the benefits now, but, at 36, she has perhaps decades of political life to anticipate. Her tactical embrace of Trumpism, including the Big Lie, has permanently stained her.

House Republicans refused to discipline Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) for spreading dangerous and sometimes bigoted conspiracy theories, instead giving her plum committee assignments. They have been mostly quiet after revelations that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is under investigation for alleged disgusting sex crimes. Mr. Gaetz still sits on the Judiciary Committee. But Ms. Cheney’s willingness to tell the truth about the integrity of the nation’s democratic system is apparently a scandal worthy of extraordinary punishment.

Ms. Cheney is by no means guaranteed to lose her position. Two-thirds of GOP House members, many of whom secretly agree with her, would have to vote to remove her. They must ask themselves whether they want to pledge their allegiance even more fully to a single man, over truth, principle and the integrity of U.S. democracy.

This section in particular is really shows what the party has become:

House Republicans refused to discipline Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) for spreading dangerous and sometimes bigoted conspiracy theories, instead giving her plum committee assignments. They have been mostly quiet after revelations that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is under investigation for alleged disgusting sex crimes. Mr. Gaetz still sits on the Judiciary Committee. But Ms. Cheney’s willingness to tell the truth about the integrity of the nation’s democratic system is apparently a scandal worthy of extraordinary punishment.

It's truly disgusting. Needless to say, it seems Cheney will be replaced.

Trump cultists value Trumps word over facts.

The GOP is now mostly a party of insane traitors who's only goal in life is to own the libs.

The other bit is a small contingent of W Bush era neo cons, who hold the last bit of sanity the party has.

[The Black Forrest]

There are no brakes on the Hell Train!

Fuck.

Jumps off before the inevitable crash.

Very brave of you to last this long. I think I jumped when he won the primary.

[Galloism]

That... doesn't even make sense.

Like, even if there WERE 40,000 ballots from Asia flown in to Arizona (printing them in America is too expensive I guess), why would they have bamboo fibers? Like, Bamboo isn't really so common in China that it just grows up in printing offices or Chinese peoples' living rooms or whatever.

Actually it kind of does make sense when you think about bamboo becoming more of a resource for pulping and paper making.

If there was a block of ballots which happened to use bamboo? AHHHHH SEEEEEE VOTER FRAUUUUD!!!!!

https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resou ... permaking/

Even then; they filed 80 frivolous law suits over the election so frivolous claims for audits are going to happen.

That... still doesn't make sense.

If it's a worldwide resource for that now (which, as a complete aside, sounds like a damn good idea because of how fast bamboo grows, just saying), then it would appear in various places regardless of where the printing occurred, since paper stock is now sent worldwide from everywhere.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Fuck.

Jumps off before the inevitable crash.

Very brave of you to last this long. I think I jumped when he won the primary.

I was never on the train.

I called the train dumb and bad from the very beginning.

I was there when the Anti sjws where at the hight of power.


They where stupid and dumb then and dumb and stupid now.

[Zurkerx]

Fuck.

Jumps off before the inevitable crash.

Very brave of you to last this long. I think I jumped when he won the primary.

Oh, I jumped a long time ago- right around when he won the primary too. I was only 6 months I was able to move out and afford my own house; the family's politics were driving me nuts, especially since they were home more often during the pandemic.

[Kowani]

Queens Prosecutors with histories of misconduct being investigated

In March, a Queens judge freed three men—George Bell, Gary Johnson, and Rohan Bolt—from prison after they served 24 years for the 1996 murders of a check-cashing store owner and an off-duty police officer in East Elmhurst. Judge Joseph Zayas found the trio had been wrongfully convicted because Queens prosecutors made false statements at trial and failed to turn over critical evidence pointing to alternative suspects in the high-profile case.
In the wake of the judge’s blistering ruling, the trial prosecutors on the case, Charles Testagrossa and Brad Leventhal, resigned from their high-ranking positions in the Nassau County and Queens District Attorney’s Offices. But their fall from grace in the legal world may not be over.
A new group called Accountability NY has filed professional complaints against Testagrossa, Leventhal, and nineteen other current and former Queens prosecutors who have been criticized by judges for misconduct in the past. Some of the group’s complaints, like those against Testagrossa and Leventhal, seek disbarment. Others recommend suspensions.
“A law license is a privilege,” said Cynthia Godsoe, a professor at Brooklyn Law School and member of Accountability NY. “We can't have prosecutors who commit egregious and often repeated misconduct. It's too dangerous for clients and it also undermines lawyers as a whole, and the rule of law.”
On Monday, Godsoe and four other law professors with Accountability NY sent the 21 complaints to New York’s court-appointed grievance committees, which are tasked with investigating attorney wrongdoing.
The professional complaints cite previous misconduct findings from judges that range considerably in severity. In some cases, courts found prosecutors withheld evidence favorable to the defense or failed to correct witnesses’ false testimony at trial. In other cases, judges chided assistant district attorneys for making inflammatory comments or asking inappropriate questions during cross examinations and closing arguments.
Accountability NY’s strategy is new. Defense attorneys in the field have long been reluctant to file bar complaints out of concern that District Attorneys will retaliate against their clients. But the group’s members, all law professors, are not encumbered by such concerns.
Rather than focusing on a one-off case, the group is filing a flurry of complaints focusing on a single jurisdiction, in this case Queens, which long had a controversial reputation under the late District Attorney Richard Brown. The geographic focus is intended to persuade the grievance committees that prosecutorial misconduct was an institutional problem, and that reviews of all the flagged prosecutors’ career cases are in order. They plan to file more complaints focusing on other boroughs in the coming months.
“We need to bring some attention to this and get the grievance committee to do what it's really tasked with doing and what it's the only institution tasked with doing, which is to bring some consequences to prosecutors who violate ethics rules,” said Godsoe.
In a statement, Lucian Chalfen, a spokesperson for the Office of Court Administration, derided the group’s initiative and asserted that the committees “take their positions extremely seriously.”
The “professors or any other individuals are free to make a complaint, should they have issue with any attorney representation or professional conduct,” he said. “If they feel that additional resources, short of publicity stunts, are needed to monitor the professional conduct of any attorney, they can make their case to the appropriate parties to further create and fund it.”
Queens District Attorney Melinda Katz, who has retained several of the prosecutors named in the complaints, also criticized the group in a statement. Katz’s office noted that the professors filing grievances relied on years-old court papers and had “no personal knowledge of the cases or the parties,” according to a statement from spokesman Chris Policano.
Katz, who took office last year, “takes prosecutorial errors very seriously and has established a rigorous system to review and retrain in order to address and prevent them,” Policano continued. But this initiative, he argued, casts so wide a net that it “actually undermines the serious, on-going work of reforming the criminal justice system.”
Experts say getting the grievance committees to follow Accountability NY’s agenda could prove difficult. The disciplinary panels have long been accused of failing to prioritize prosecutorial misconduct, prompting calls for an independent state commission to tackle the issue. Of the 21 current and former Queens prosecutors flagged by Accountability New York for judicial misconduct findings, none have received public records of professional discipline from the committees.
“It's fair to say that historically the disciplinary authorities have not disbarred or suspended very many prosecutors in New York or elsewhere,” said Bruce Green, a professor at Fordham Law, who has studied prosecutorial disciplinary processes extensively.
In the past, Green noted, grievance committees tended to prioritize cracking down on attorneys for other forms of misconduct, such as theft of clients’ funds or off-the-job felonies.
But this outlook could change, he explained, due to changing political attitudes and an increasing awareness of the central role that prosecutors have played in wrongful convictions nationwide.
“There's a greater recognition that when prosecutors commit certain wrongdoing, innocent people get convicted,” Green said. “And that's a terrible wrong, probably worse than when a lawyer takes clients money.”
Hal Lieberman, a legal ethics expert who previously worked on a state grievance committee, agrees that the review committees have not done enough to regulate prosecutorial misconduct. But the attorney, who has also defended prosecutors before such panels, raised concerns about some of Accountability NY’s demands.
Court findings of withholding helpful evidence to the defense, he pointed out, “could be very technical.” Even for serious misconduct findings like that, “prosecutors could be acting in perfectly good faith,” he argued.
Lieberman also chided the group for demanding grievance committees scrutinize the entire careers of so many prosecutors, especially those who have only had one or two misconduct findings.
“I don't think it would be all that productive unless there was some, you know, pattern of prosecutorial misconduct that emerged where you could find four or five cases where the courts have overturned a conviction,” said Lieberman.
Green, the Fordham professor, echoed Lieberman’s skepticism, arguing that while such a monumental review was possible, the committees are not likely willing to embark on it given their limited resources.
“They're not going to make it a priority to go back in time, decades, to look at closed files to see whether lawyers in the past, you know, committed wrongdoing that might not even warrant public discipline,” said Green. Rohan Bolt, one of the three Queens men who was recently released from prison, said he hopes the grievance committees will probe the past cases of his trial prosecutor Brad Leventhal, especially since the Queens District Attorney has publicly said it will not.
“If they did it to me, how many more did they do it to? That nobody is paying attention to,” he said.
Before his conviction, Bolt ran his own Jamaican restaurant in East Elmhurst and was a married father of four children. After he received a 50 years-to-life sentence, his wife divorced him. For 24 years in prison, he missed watching his children grow up.
“Things I would like to do with my family I could not do: taking my children to school and stuff like that, picking them up, seeing them graduate,” he said. “It’s painful when you got to sit behind those bars knowing that you’re losing out on all this stuff.”
He added disbarment is the least that should happen to Brad Leventhal, the trial prosecutor whom a court recently found had wrongfully convicted him.
“He gets to go home and live his life, you know, and get and get his pension and continue to to practice in law,” Bolt said. “When we do wrong, we get punished for it, you know, and when they do wrong, what did they do? Nothing.”

Leventhal declined to respond to questions about his recent misconduct finding or the new complaint filed against him. In an email, the former Queens homicide prosecutor said he would “vigorously address all of these allegations in the appropriate forum and at the appropriate time.”
Charles Testagrossa, who led the first of the three murder cases against George Bell, did not respond to requests for comment.
Accountability NY said it plans to file a raft of complaints against prosecutors who serve or have served in Brooklyn, the Bronx, Manhattan, and Long Island later this summer.

[Zurkerx]

Liz Cheney told the truth. Republicans must decide whether they value Trump over it.

NEXT WEEK may bring a defining moment for the Republican Party. Rep. Liz Cheney (Wyo.), the third-ranking House Republican, is all but certain to face a vote to remove her from her leadership position, perhaps as early as May 12. The underlying question is simple: Is the GOP a party in which embracing lies about the United States’ system of government is a prerequisite for leadership?

A strong conservative on policy, Ms. Cheney faces punishment for refusing to embrace, or at least to accept with silence, the falsehood that the Democrats stole the 2020 presidential election. Ms. Cheney is among the few Republican patriots for whom former president Donald Trump’s toxic lies about voter fraud, and the Jan. 6 invasion of the Capitol they sparked, were a red line. After the former president insisted on Monday that his failure in last year’s election is “THE BIG LIE,” Ms. Cheney shot back: “The 2020 presidential election was not stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading THE BIG LIE, turning their back on the rule of law, and poisoning our democratic system.”

In a Post op-ed posted Wednesday, Ms. Cheney spelled out the stakes for her party: “The Republican Party is at a turning point, and Republicans must decide whether we are going to choose truth and fidelity to the Constitution,” she wrote. “While embracing or ignoring Trump’s statements may seem attractive to some for fundraising and political purposes, that approach will do profound long-term damage to our party and our country.”

Ms. Cheney’s statement is not just based in fact, it is about the only decent response any self-respecting citizen can have to Mr. Trump’s campaign to discredit U.S. democracy. But it transgresses the emerging GOP orthodoxy that all Republicans must cater to Mr. Trump’s petulant refusal to admit he lost. Caught on a hot mic, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) complained Tuesday, “I’ve had it with her. . . . someone just has to bring a motion.” By Wednesday, Rep. Steve Scalise (La.), the No. 2 Republican in the House, had endorsed replacing Ms. Cheney with Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.).

Ms. Stefanik, who is reportedly working the phones to whip up support, is among those who reinforced Mr. Trump’s lies even after the Jan. 6 violence, voting against Congress’s acceptance of the electoral college vote. She may reap the benefits now, but, at 36, she has perhaps decades of political life to anticipate. Her tactical embrace of Trumpism, including the Big Lie, has permanently stained her.

House Republicans refused to discipline Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) for spreading dangerous and sometimes bigoted conspiracy theories, instead giving her plum committee assignments. They have been mostly quiet after revelations that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is under investigation for alleged disgusting sex crimes. Mr. Gaetz still sits on the Judiciary Committee. But Ms. Cheney’s willingness to tell the truth about the integrity of the nation’s democratic system is apparently a scandal worthy of extraordinary punishment.

Ms. Cheney is by no means guaranteed to lose her position. Two-thirds of GOP House members, many of whom secretly agree with her, would have to vote to remove her. They must ask themselves whether they want to pledge their allegiance even more fully to a single man, over truth, principle and the integrity of U.S. democracy.

This section in particular is really shows what the party has become:

House Republicans refused to discipline Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) for spreading dangerous and sometimes bigoted conspiracy theories, instead giving her plum committee assignments. They have been mostly quiet after revelations that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is under investigation for alleged disgusting sex crimes. Mr. Gaetz still sits on the Judiciary Committee. But Ms. Cheney’s willingness to tell the truth about the integrity of the nation’s democratic system is apparently a scandal worthy of extraordinary punishment.

It's truly disgusting. Needless to say, it seems Cheney will be replaced.

Trump cultists value Trumps word over facts.

The GOP is now mostly a party of insane traitors who's only goal in life is to own the libs.

The other bit is a small contingent of W Bush era neo cons, who hold the last bit of sanity the party has.

Somehow we're calling Neo-Conservatives sane now. Oh how far things have come...

Very brave of you to last this long. I think I jumped when he won the primary.

I was never on the train.

I called the train dumb and bad from the very beginning.

I was there when the Anti sjws where at the hight of power.

They where stupid and dumb then and dumb and stupid now.

There were some Republicans I was willing to vote for at the time in 2016 (Bush, Paul, Kasich, Rubio, Christie, and Pataki). Now I can't even vote for a party I don't recognize though I've voted most Libertarian either way.

[Punished UMN]

Tennessee joins the club as their House passes a bill to declare the entire state a second amendment sanctuary.

Cool. Another backwater state to avoid.

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"? The democrats don't get votes here because they don't care about our issues unless they can use them to bash us for supposedly being uneducated hicks who can't manage our own affairs. What shining city on a hill do you live in?

[San Lumen]

Cool. Another backwater state to avoid.

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"? The democrats don't get votes here because they don't care about our issues unless they can use them to bash us for supposedly being uneducated hicks who can't manage our own affairs. What shining city on a hill do you live in?

When people vote for loons like MTG it doesn’t do much to dispel that notion.

[Punished UMN]

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"? The democrats don't get votes here because they don't care about our issues unless they can use them to bash us for supposedly being uneducated hicks who can't manage our own affairs. What shining city on a hill do you live in?

When people vote for loons like MTG it doesn’t do much to dispel that notion.

When economic policy has been destroying our way of life for a few decades it's hard to trust the government in-general. Liberal solutions to the institutional problems of capitalism are absolutely anaemic. Entire communities are being left to rot because it's not profitable for them to exist in the system.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Cool. Another backwater state to avoid.

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"? The democrats don't get votes here because they don't care about our issues unless they can use them to bash us for supposedly being uneducated hicks who can't manage our own affairs. What shining city on a hill do you live in?

When the right wing stops hosting and supporting redneck garbage facebook meme pages, then we can come back to discuss the stereotype of rural southern states being filled with uneducated hicks.

As long as those meme pages shamelessly repost Tucker Carlson anti mask garbage, Ben Shaperio's fraking funded "dear liberals" memes and other anti science garbage (see global warming denial, flat earth, anti vax, anti mask and other bullshit like that) then the stereotype lives on.

[San Lumen]

When people vote for loons like MTG it doesn’t do much to dispel that notion.

When economic policy has been destroying our way of life for a few decades it's hard to trust the government in-general. Liberal solutions to the institutional problems of capitalism are absolutely anaemic. Entire communities are being left to rot because it's not profitable for them to exist in the system.

Try not having your economy be based on one industry and stop treating urban areas like the enemy.

[The Black Forrest]

Cool. Another backwater state to avoid.

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"?

You assume I am a democrat. I am not.

If you are voting against the democrats simply because some anonymous Net person said “mean things” about your state; you are not a very good voting citizen.

[Kowani]

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"? The democrats don't get votes here because they don't care about our issues unless they can use them to bash us for supposedly being uneducated hicks who can't manage our own affairs. What shining city on a hill do you live in?

When the right wing stops hosting and supporting redneck garbage facebook meme pages, then we can come back to discuss the stereotype of rural southern states being filled with uneducated hicks.

As long as those meme pages shamelessly repost Tucker Carlson anti mask garbage, Ben Shaperio's fraking funded "dear liberals" memes and other anti science garbage (see global warming denial, flat earth, anti vax, anti mask and other bullshit like that) then the stereotype lives on.

okay
see
UMN's point is, i think, too sympathetic to rural areas' point of view
but liberal stereotypes of rural areas is, if nothing else, not helpful
it does nothing but help continue the cycle of perpetual hatred and division

When economic policy has been destroying our way of life for a few decades it's hard to trust the government in-general. Liberal solutions to the institutional problems of capitalism are absolutely anaemic. Entire communities are being left to rot because it's not profitable for them to exist in the system.

Try not having your economy be based on one industry and stop treating urban areas like the enemy.

that's not how economics works

[The Black Forrest]

When people vote for loons like MTG it doesn’t do much to dispel that notion.

When economic policy has been destroying our way of life for a few decades it's hard to trust the government in-general. Liberal solutions to the institutional problems of capitalism are absolutely anaemic. Entire communities are being left to rot because it's not profitable for them to exist in the system.

Hmmm? You might want to back those claims with examples.

[Punished UMN]

When economic policy has been destroying our way of life for a few decades it's hard to trust the government in-general. Liberal solutions to the institutional problems of capitalism are absolutely anaemic. Entire communities are being left to rot because it's not profitable for them to exist in the system.

Try not having your economy be based on one industry and stop treating urban areas like the enemy.

They are the enemy, because they take our tax dollars so that we can't have even basic infrastructure. And a lot of times we have no choice but to rely on single industries. What are we supposed to do when the government pulls funding for a factory that employs 40% of the town's population and relocates it to Chicago? What about when the government just refuses to help our infrastructure or education? Just conjure up our tax dollars, which go primarily to the state and then to the major cities? We're not even allowed to use our own money for our own problems.

[The Black Forrest]

[
but liberal stereotypes of rural areas is, if nothing else, not helpful
it does nothing but help continue the cycle of perpetual hatred and division

Cool. So when are they going to stop with the libtard/snowflake/etc/etc/etc?

[Punished UMN]

When economic policy has been destroying our way of life for a few decades it's hard to trust the government in-general. Liberal solutions to the institutional problems of capitalism are absolutely anaemic. Entire communities are being left to rot because it's not profitable for them to exist in the system.

Hmmm? You might want to back those claims with examples.

Large parts of the rural south (including my own town) don't have modern plumbing, we don't get state education funding, any industry that supports a living wage is relocated to major cities. The population of my town has declined from over ten thousand to less than six thousand in only a decade, primarily because the government relocated their factory to an urban area. Didn't help that the feds dumped chemical weapons in our water supply.

[Punished UMN]

Have you considered one reason we vote against your party in elections is because you guys call us a "backwater state to avoid"?

You assume I am a democrat. I am not.

If you are voting against the democrats simply because some anonymous Net person said “mean things” about your state; you are not a very good voting citizen.

I voted for Biden in the last election, to spite Trump, but I acknowledge that no matter who we vote for, we will get shafted, because we don't have a large enough population to matter.

[Punished UMN]

that's not how economics works

No, Kow, we will rebuild our economy with sheer gumption, we don't need things like funding for plumbing or electricity from capital monopolies.

[Kowani]

[
but liberal stereotypes of rural areas is, if nothing else, not helpful
it does nothing but help continue the cycle of perpetual hatred and division

Cool. So when are they going to stop with the libtard/snowflake/etc/etc/etc?

you have entirely missed the point of what i was saying

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

When the right wing stops hosting and supporting redneck garbage facebook meme pages, then we can come back to discuss the stereotype of rural southern states being filled with uneducated hicks.

As long as those meme pages shamelessly repost Tucker Carlson anti mask garbage, Ben Shaperio's fraking funded "dear liberals" memes and other anti science garbage (see global warming denial, flat earth, anti vax, anti mask and other bullshit like that) then the stereotype lives on.

okay
see
UMN's point is, i think, too sympathetic to rural areas' point of view
but liberal stereotypes of rural areas is, if nothing else, not helpful
it does nothing but help continue the cycle of perpetual hatred and division

Try not having your economy be based on one industry and stop treating urban areas like the enemy.

that's not how economics works

I do have to agree on this.

But another part of my brain is screaming at me to counter this anti sjwism.

I am beyond sick of this. I am beyond sick of Trumpism.

I hope there is a way for the rural areas to get reinvigorated economies, I don't hate them really. I don't want to hate anyone on the right wing.

But as long as the redneck anti science continues I'm just going to get more tired.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Hmmm? You might want to back those claims with examples.

Large parts of the rural south (including my own town) don't have modern plumbing, we don't get state education funding, any industry that supports a living wage is relocated to major cities. The population of my town has declined from over ten thousand to less than six thousand in only a decade, primarily because the government relocated their factory to an urban area. Didn't help that the feds dumped chemical weapons in our water supply.

That is all wrong.

I want to get the working class more money in the rural south, but I just want this anti science insanity to end.

[Punished UMN]

okay
see
UMN's point is, i think, too sympathetic to rural areas' point of view
but liberal stereotypes of rural areas is, if nothing else, not helpful
it does nothing but help continue the cycle of perpetual hatred and division


that's not how economics works

I do have to agree on this.

But another part of my brain is screaming at me to counter this anti sjwism.

I am beyond sick of this. I am beyond sick of Trumpism.

I hope there is a way for the rural areas to get reinvigorated economies, I don't hate them really. I don't want to hate anyone on the right wing.

But as long as the redneck anti science continues I'm just going to get more tired.

The problems of the world have little to do with "anti science" and a lot more to do with that business interests are opposed to the interests of the public. Businesses have a monopoly on work and are rigging the economy to maximize profit, and that means the destruction of the public's ability to accumulate wealth, because any wealth the public can accumulate is wealth that is not being spent on the products of business and therefore not being spent on financial investment.