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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:11 am

North Washington Republic wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://m.startribune.com/minneapolis-voters-will-decide-whether-to-grant-mayor-more-power/600043359/

Minneapolis will be be voting on a referendum in November to decide whether to increase the power of the mayor. The position is currently very weak other than having your power to a point certain officials. The mayoral election and city council election is also being held in the fall.

Incumbent Mayor Jacob Frey is likely to face multiple challengers and a tough re-election fight. He has faced much criticism for his response to the Floyd protests and riots and is widely unpopular.


The thing is is that Jacob Frey is a moderate when it comes to Minneapolis politics. He might be replaced with an Anarcho-communist that wants to abolish the police, like many on the council want. Along with the pandemic,this is what keeps me up at night. Minneapolis is being used as a social experiment. What the far-left in the city seem to not understand is that white supremacists also want to abolish the police department because they think that will make their stupid race war easier to start.


Whose running against him? I doubt you’ll have a communist takeover or a abolition of the police.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:24 am

Shrillland wrote:
San Lumen wrote:all nuclear weapon research should stop and every nuclear weapon dismantled and the nuclear football destroyed.


No. There is still a place for nuclear weapons. Without them, the amount of truly devastating wars in the 20th and 21st Centuries would have been far greater and far deadlier.


But at what cost? If God forbid they're ever used in a massive war, we are fucked.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:26 am

North Washington Republic wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://m.startribune.com/minneapolis-voters-will-decide-whether-to-grant-mayor-more-power/600043359/

Minneapolis will be be voting on a referendum in November to decide whether to increase the power of the mayor. The position is currently very weak other than having your power to a point certain officials. The mayoral election and city council election is also being held in the fall.

Incumbent Mayor Jacob Frey is likely to face multiple challengers and a tough re-election fight. He has faced much criticism for his response to the Floyd protests and riots and is widely unpopular.


The thing is is that Jacob Frey is a moderate when it comes to Minneapolis politics. He might be replaced with an Anarcho-communist that wants to abolish the police, like many on the council want. Along with the pandemic,this is what keeps me up at night. Minneapolis is being used as a social experiment. What the far-left in the city seem to not understand is that white supremacists also want to abolish the police department because they think that will make their stupid race war easier to start.


Few people want to get rid of the entire concept of policing. Mainly they want to defund the police police means we transfer funds that used to go to the department to social services for the community. And considering the terrible job MPD has done over the years, they more than deserve to lose half their funding.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:29 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
North Washington Republic wrote:
The thing is is that Jacob Frey is a moderate when it comes to Minneapolis politics. He might be replaced with an Anarcho-communist that wants to abolish the police, like many on the council want. Along with the pandemic,this is what keeps me up at night. Minneapolis is being used as a social experiment. What the far-left in the city seem to not understand is that white supremacists also want to abolish the police department because they think that will make their stupid race war easier to start.


Few people want to get rid of the entire concept of policing. Mainly they want to defund the police police means we transfer funds that used to go to the department to social services for the community. And considering the terrible job MPD has done over the years, they more than deserve to lose half their funding.

I hate the term defund the police. It should instead be reform the police. That would sell better.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:31 am

San Lumen wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Few people want to get rid of the entire concept of policing. Mainly they want to defund the police police means we transfer funds that used to go to the department to social services for the community. And considering the terrible job MPD has done over the years, they more than deserve to lose half their funding.

I hate the term defund the police. It should instead be reform the police. That would sell better.

I guess some people prefer being honest about what they want to trying to workshop the slogan with the best optics.
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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:45 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Nuclear Winter very likely isn't real. It was a political concept from the start and doesn't hold much weight in models starting in the 90's onwards and events that should have produced localized Nuclear Winter style effects (ie the Kuwait Oil Fires) did no such thing.


That's not what all the recent scientific studies and modelling on the subject said : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_w ... t_modeling . And you can't really compare small-scale oil well fires with the detonation of hundred of nuclear warheads over cities.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:47 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I hate the term defund the police. It should instead be reform the police. That would sell better.

I guess some people prefer being honest about what they want to trying to workshop the slogan with the best optics.

Reform the police is just as honest and wouldn’t turn people off. Optics is important in politics.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:08 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I guess some people prefer being honest about what they want to trying to workshop the slogan with the best optics.

Reform the police is just as honest and wouldn’t turn people off. Optics is important in politics.

People started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. It would be less honest to try and change that conversation in the hopes of providing Democrats with a better slogan.
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:11 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Reform the police is just as honest and wouldn’t turn people off. Optics is important in politics.

People started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. It would be less honest to try and change that conversation in the hopes of providing Democrats with a better slogan.


Messaging is essential. Defund turns people off. If you messaged it as reform you’d get more people on board.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:33 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:People started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. It would be less honest to try and change that conversation in the hopes of providing Democrats with a better slogan.


Messaging is essential. Defund turns people off. If you messaged it as reform you’d get more people on board.

Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Messaging is essential. Defund turns people off. If you messaged it as reform you’d get more people on board.

Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.

Don’t whine then when that slogan is used against you and you lose elections or can’t get what you want done because you’ve alienated people.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:47 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
Oh, the planet itself would be fine. Not its biosphere. You're right about the radiation not being the main problem - they would wreck havoc, sure, but not on planet scale. You're wrong about nuclear winter. About 100 Hiroshima-size nuclear blast on cities would send the Earth into a few years of nuclear winter that would wipe out most of crop production and natural habitats. It'll not bring about complete extinction of life, but it'll be a disaster at the scale of the extinction of the dinosaurs.

And the expression "sci-fi nonsense" doesn't mean much, actually lots of "sci-fi" (I'm speaking real sci-fi, not space-fantasy like Star Wars, which I do enjoy a lot, but it's not scifi) actually tends to teach a lot about potential futures.


Nuclear Winter very likely isn't real. It was a political concept from the start and doesn't hold much weight in models starting in the 90's onwards and events that should have produced localized Nuclear Winter style effects (ie the Kuwait Oil Fires) did no such thing.

On the spectrum of energy release between “campfire” and “Chicxulub,” the Kuwait oil fires were closer to the former, and global thermonuclear war would be closer to the latter. One burny boi in the desert is going to have a hard time lofting particulates and combusted material into the stratosphere. But hey, there’s only one way to find out for sure!
Last edited by Senkaku on Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:50 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.

Don’t whine then when that slogan is used against you and you lose elections or can’t get what you want done because you’ve alienated people.

“If only you had messaged in The Right Way, those people wouldn’t have decided to vote against us! Voter behavior is reducible to reactivity against slogans!”

I love the abiding faith and incredible condescension of centrist technocrats whose daddies work in advertising lol
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:50 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Messaging is essential. Defund turns people off. If you messaged it as reform you’d get more people on board.

Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded.


Most actually want the funds to be used differently. Defunding is accurate, yes - but so is reallocating. Or optimising spending.
Which will get far more support.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:50 am

San Lumen wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Few people want to get rid of the entire concept of policing. Mainly they want to defund the police police means we transfer funds that used to go to the department to social services for the community. And considering the terrible job MPD has done over the years, they more than deserve to lose half their funding.

I hate the term defund the police. It should instead be reform the police. That would sell better.


Many police departments deserve to be defunded. They've proven they cannot do their job right and when you can't do your job right, you lose money.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:55 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.

Don’t whine then when that slogan is used against you and you lose elections or can’t get what you want done because you’ve alienated people.

I literally just told you that people talking about defunding the police aren't trying to run an election campaign, and your response is "Don't come crying to me when you lose the election".
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:00 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Messaging is essential. Defund turns people off. If you messaged it as reform you’d get more people on board.

Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.


While they might not be running a campaign it absolutley does have effects on campaigns, and given how poorly Defund The Police polls it's not exactly a good one.

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Nuclear Winter very likely isn't real. It was a political concept from the start and doesn't hold much weight in models starting in the 90's onwards and events that should have produced localized Nuclear Winter style effects (ie the Kuwait Oil Fires) did no such thing.

On the spectrum of energy release between “campfire” and “Chicxulub,” the Kuwait oil fires were closer to the former, and global thermonuclear war would be closer to the latter. But hey, there’s only one way to find out for sure!


Based and nuclearpilled
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:00 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.

Don’t whine then when that slogan is used against you and you lose elections or can’t get what you want done because you’ve alienated people.


Yeah let's just give the police MORE money after they kill someone else. Because as we all know, at most jobs you earn more money when you fuck around.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:01 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I hate the term defund the police. It should instead be reform the police. That would sell better.


Many police departments deserve to be defunded. They've proven they cannot do their job right and when you can't do your job right, you lose money.

Then use the term reallocate or budget reduction. It would sell better.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:05 am

San Lumen wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Many police departments deserve to be defunded. They've proven they cannot do their job right and when you can't do your job right, you lose money.

Then use the term reallocate or budget reduction. It would sell better.

Prove it, Mr. Draper.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:13 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Again, people started talking about defunding the police because they wanted the police defunded. You're acting like they're trying to run an election campaign and doing it badly, but that's not what's happening.


While they might not be running a campaign it absolutley does have effects on campaigns, and given how poorly Defund The Police polls it's not exactly a good one.

I would hardly think that I'd need to tell you that a lot of people don't formulate their politics so as to make the poll numbers go up.


San Lumen wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Many police departments deserve to be defunded. They've proven they cannot do their job right and when you can't do your job right, you lose money.

Then use the term reallocate or budget reduction. It would sell better.

Focus grouping every statement doesn't sell well either. Why do you think that Pete Buttigieg didn't win? People can tell that his whole existence is decided by a committee, and mostly they don't like it.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:47 am

San Lumen wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Many police departments deserve to be defunded. They've proven they cannot do their job right and when you can't do your job right, you lose money.

Then use the term reallocate or budget reduction. It would sell better.


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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:51 am

Senkaku wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Then use the term reallocate or budget reduction. It would sell better.

Prove it, Mr. Draper.


The 2020 House Races.

Look, I'm not usually one to get caught up on semantics, but when you had leading figures of the Black Caucus telling us "the catchphrase hurt us down-ballot and thereby hurt our movement," I'm inclined to listen to them. I think we can reform bloated police unions, cut funding to mismanaged departments, and emphasize strict training over other daft resource allocations, and call it something other than "defunding the police." Because when boomer Jim out of Indiana hears that, he doesn't understand the nuance of the term, he just hears "cut funding off completely."

What we call it instead, I'm not sure. I won't pretend to be the marketing wizard in that capacity.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:55 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I hate the term defund the police. It should instead be reform the police. That would sell better.


Many police departments deserve to be defunded. They've proven they cannot do their job right and when you can't do your job right, you lose money.

I think most people acknowledge that, if there is a problem in the police system, it should be addressed. My opinion is that we should focus more on police reform than defunding so we don't get a repeat of Minneapolis.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:56 am

Major-Tom wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Prove it, Mr. Draper.


The 2020 House Races.

Look, I'm not usually one to get caught up on semantics, but when you had leading figures of the Black Caucus telling us "the catchphrase hurt us down-ballot and thereby hurt our movement," I'm inclined to listen to them. I think we can reform bloated police unions, cut funding to mismanaged departments, and emphasize strict training over other daft resource allocations, and call it something other than "defunding the police." Because when boomer Jim out of Indiana hears that, he doesn't understand the nuance of the term, he just hears "cut funding off completely."

What we call it instead, I'm not sure. I won't pretend to be the marketing wizard in that capacity.


I think reform the police is a good start.

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