France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

[Salus Maior]

It's a piece of clothing. It's not like it's an irreversible surgery or something. France needs to chill the fuck out.

With the order they receive from the Vatican, they forbid the hijab, they say they are against pronography, but they do not refrain from secretly liking the Instagram female models. Right-wing religious nationalism creates enemies, secularism provides freedom.

You're even less comprehensible than usual, Hakinda.

[Odreria]

that's not what either of those things mean

There you go proving my point, I have better things to do than talk to someone like you.
A bit of advice, You have something like 34 thousand messages on a text based scenario game forum in only 3 or so years. From what I've seen, the majority of it is you jumping into pointless arguments with people and trying to refute them to no end or success.
Go outside or something.

you say my argument doesn't make sense yet you have posted a lot. curious...

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

With the order they receive from the Vatican, they forbid the hijab, they say they are against pronography, but they do not refrain from secretly liking the Instagram female models. Right-wing religious nationalism creates enemies, secularism provides freedom.

You're even less comprehensible than usual, Hakinda.

Does the name Natalia garibotto sound familiar to you, Salus Maior ?

[Salus Maior]

You're even less comprehensible than usual, Hakinda.

Does the name Natalia garibotto sound familiar to you, Salus Maior ?

Not really, no.

[Zurkir]

Does the name Natalia garibotto sound familiar to you, Salus Maior ?

Not really, no.

She’s some Instagram model that the Pope “liked” on Instagram.

[Salus Maior]

Not really, no.

She’s some Instagram model that the Pope “liked” on Instagram.

Ooooohhhh, that.

Considering most political/public figures don't actually run their own social media pages it was probably some dumb intern that did that.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

She’s some Instagram model that the Pope “liked” on Instagram.

Ooooohhhh, that.

Considering most political/public figures don't actually run their own social media pages it was probably some dumb intern that did that.

Don't you think the Pope is a secret fantasy world like typical religious nationalists who use religion and restrict people's freedom. You cannot see the problem here, the problem is not the headscarf or the pope's liking of the female model, the main problem is that Christian radicals attack Muslims, can you see the hypocrisy here. Also my personal opinion is please don't use the word dumb for people who like female bodies.

[Zizou]

Ooooohhhh, that.

Considering most political/public figures don't actually run their own social media pages it was probably some dumb intern that did that.

Don't you think the Pope is a secret fantasy world like typical religious nationalists who use religion and restrict people's freedom. You cannot see the problem here, the problem is not the headscarf or the pope's liking of the female model, the main problem is that Christian radicals attack Muslims, can you see the hypocrisy here. Also my personal opinion is please don't use the word dumb for people who like female bodies.

I'm going to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. If I understand correctly, you are trying to say a lot of Christians are hypocrites for attacking Muslims for their beliefs? Or are you saying that many religious people are hypocrites in general?

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Don't you think the Pope is a secret fantasy world like typical religious nationalists who use religion and restrict people's freedom. You cannot see the problem here, the problem is not the headscarf or the pope's liking of the female model, the main problem is that Christian radicals attack Muslims, can you see the hypocrisy here. Also my personal opinion is please don't use the word dumb for people who like female bodies.

(Image)

I'm going to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. If I understand correctly, you are trying to say a lot of Christians are hypocrites for attacking Muslims for their beliefs? Or are you saying that many religious people are hypocrites in general?

I say my radicalism is bad.

[The Alma Mater]

With all the beheading, suicidal bombers, and truck drivers purposely driving towards pedestrians and killing them I think they do have a reason to implement such strict rules right now.

So how does telling minors and anyone interested in chaperoning that they can't wear a simple head covering do anything about such incidents?

It forces muslim men to grow up instead of being aroused by the idea of little girls.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Remember, ironic fascism is still fascism.

And that’s just why I was fascist some time ago.
Don’t worry, now I’m strasserist so nothing basically changed bruh

[Glorious Hong Kong]

I'm against this and I'm leaning against laicite in general because of authoritarian nonsense such as this and because laicite inherently conflicts with freedom of expression. Headscarves are totally fine by me. No one should ever have the right to tell anyone else what they can and can't wear or what they can and can't say. Muslim women are entitled to wear a headscarf. Non-Muslims are entitled to educate children about religious intolerance in a religious studies class by showing pre-existing cartoons of Mohammed without fear of getting fired, jailed, or beheaded. Fair is fair is fair is fair. Muslim women are being oppressed twice over by their male relatives for not covering up and by the state for covering up.

I generally consider myself anti-feminist and I'm sympathetic to a number of MRA viewpoints. I'm no fan of MeToo, Women's March, or GamerGate SJWs masquerading as "journalists". But still. No one has a right to tell women what they can and can't wear or what they can and can't do with their bodies.

#HerBodyHerChoice

The other measures taken to combat radical Islam in light of recent Islamist-inspired terror attacks and beheadings on French soil are also fine by me. Interior Minister Jean Castex has come out against the proposal. Emmanuel Macron has managed to strike a delicate balance between enabling religious extremism and quashing religious forms of free expression. For all the accusations of neoliberalism and being out-of-touch, I still prefer him to Marine Le Pen (who once cozied up to Putin and Assad, a huge turnoff for me at the time of the last presidential election) and I strongly prefer him to the Islamist-enabling wokists and apologists on the Left.

[Nakena]

Remember, ironic fascism is still fascism.

And that’s just why I was fascist some time ago.
Don’t worry, now I’m strasserist so nothing basically changed bruh

As for fascist, they come very rarely to NSG anymore and prefer to stay in their regions.

[Vassenor]

So how does telling minors and anyone interested in chaperoning that they can't wear a simple head covering do anything about such incidents?

It forces muslim men to grow up instead of being aroused by the idea of little girls.

Ah yes, casual sexism in action.

[Dofelkvic]

With all the beheading, suicidal bombers, and truck drivers purposely driving towards pedestrians and killing them I think they do have a reason to implement such strict rules right now.

So how does telling minors and anyone interested in chaperoning that they can't wear a simple head covering do anything about such incidents?

I did not think that through, I just realized they could just do all those incidents in front of a church so banning hijabs won't do much to prevent it.

[The Alma Mater]

It forces muslim men to grow up instead of being aroused by the idea of little girls.

Ah yes, casual sexism in action.

Quite a lot of terrorism is indeed caused by sexually underdeveloped men.

[Insaanistan]

So how does telling minors and anyone interested in chaperoning that they can't wear a simple head covering do anything about such incidents?

It forces muslim men to grow up instead of being aroused by the idea of little girls.

Uhhh... what?

[Insaanistan]

With all the beheading, suicidal bombers, and truck drivers purposely driving towards pedestrians and killing them I think they do have a reason to implement such strict rules right now.

You know said groups target and hate Muslims more than they do Christian Europeans, right?
Most terrorist attacks happen in the Middle East.
Also, in a large portion of terrorist attacks in Europe, said terrorists also knowing kill Muslims, such as one case where the first person the terrorist killed was a hijabi.

Additionally, how is otherizing and ostracizing Muslims going to decrease terrorism rather than increase it?

[The Free Joy State]

I mean, if we're talking about tiny girls who are too young to have any opinion of their own about a religion... maybe they'd have something of a point (if they were extending it to other worn religious symbols).

But teenagers are old enough to have started forming their own minds on their religion, and -- at the end of the day -- the hijab is not the burka. The measure is also clearly aimed at Islam (making it more discriminatory than the general understanding of state secularism, which ought not to favour or disfavour any religion).

And, it should be up to girls to choose what they wear. It's not something that should be forced on them by the government anymore than it should be forced on them by anyone else.

However, it has not happened yet. And, if it's anything like the last time this was raised, it probably will not.

[Genivaria]

I mean, if we're talking about tiny girls who are too young to have any opinion of their own about a religion... maybe they'd have something of a point (if they were extending it to other worn religious symbols).

But teenagers are old enough to have started forming their own minds on their religion, and -- at the end of the day -- the hijab is not the burka. The measure is also clearly aimed at Islam (making it more discriminatory than the general understanding of state secularism, which ought not to favour or disfavour any religion).

And, it should be up to girls to choose what they wear. It's not something that should be forced on them by the government anymore than it should be forced on them by anyone else.

However, it has not happened yet. And, if it's anything like the last time this was raised, it probably will not.

This is pretty much my position as well

[Insaanistan]

I mean, if we're talking about tiny girls who are too young to have any opinion of their own about a religion... maybe they'd have something of a point (if they were extending it to other worn religious symbols).

But teenagers are old enough to have started forming their own minds on their religion, and -- at the end of the day -- the hijab is not the burka. The measure is also clearly aimed at Islam (making it more discriminatory than the general understanding of state secularism, which ought not to favour or disfavour any religion).

And, it should be up to girls to choose what they wear. It's not something that should be forced on them by the government anymore than it should be forced on them by anyone else.

However, it has not happened yet. And, if it's anything like the last time this was raised, it probably will not.

I dunno know about the last bit. Islamophobia is at record highs in France. I hope it doesn’t pass, but I don’t think it won’t.

[Fahran]

I think it's wrong to assume that Muslims will bring hijabs. As far as I know, hijabs are very secular.

Emphasis mine. They're not. For instance, the cultural debate between Nasserites and the predecessors of the Muslim Brotherhood on the subject had the secularists explicitly discouraging Egyptian women from wearing even the hijab whereas the Muslim Brotherhood, up until today, has been supportive of encouraging women to wear the hijab. Nobody who isn't influenced by the Saudis wants women in Egypt to wear a niqab. In fact, the niqab and burqa are seen as broadly inappropriate attire for women in much of the Dar as-Salaam, where the chador and hijab tend to be preferred.

Burka,Niqab and Chador they need to be banned.The old grandmother would also wear a square scarf on her head like hijabs .If I can see your face, how much difference is there between a hijabs and a hat?We should pay more attention to whether the religious doctrinal requirements are harmful to women's rights and interests,does it achieve gender equality.

I would argue that Islam, like most religions, has no intrinsic interest in the promotion of gender equality and that twisting Islam into being about gender equality first and foremost is dishonest at best and blasphemous at worst. That's not to say Islam doesn't, on occasion, do nice things for women and have some conception of fairness. But religion is definitely not about being progressive and/or liberal on the whole, and it really shouldn't be. Religions are, in many cases, about our relationship with G-d or upholding Dharma or something along those lines.

[Fahran]

“Opinions against the government position aren’t conducive to unity, let’s ban criticism of the government.”

We actually do often ban/criminalize/stigmatize political opinions that lie beyond the Overton Window, and most of those opinions would not be conducive to the maintenance of a liberal or multicultural order.

[Kilobugya]

I dunno know about the last bit. Islamophobia is at record highs in France. I hope it doesn’t pass, but I don’t think it won’t.

I agree with you that islamophobia is at very preoccupying level in France. And other forms of xenophobia too (racism against Black people or gypsies, antisemitism, LGBTphobia, ...). But what will determine if the law will pass or not is more subtle political calculus from LREM (Macron's party) regarding the 2022 election, where they hope to face Marine Le Pen but yet be seen as centrist enough to actually defeat her. It's very sad, indeed, to use teenaged girls as mere pawns for political tactics, but that's what Macron has been doing since the beginning - he doesn't personally cares one way or another about them.

[Fahran]

Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion.

Based. My incessant shilling for the rightful Caliph, Abdullah II of Jordan, will pay off insh-llah.