NationStates

Salus Maior wrote:In which case the Middle Ages weren't really all that different before the development of modernity. Which is why the "Dark Ages" are a myth as they're commonly perceived, is my point.

I'm inclined to agree.

Zurkir wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:
The belief white people are meant to save the helpless minorities.

The whole white savior complex is your typical elitist nonsense. The only people who actually shill for it are these Wall Street rich people and do-gooder activist types. One might could say for example that the Twitter brigades and SJW’s are the types that subscribe to this theory, as they see a need to suppress (cancel) anything that offends them or their minority charges.

It’s an unfortunately real mechanism yes but it’s offensive and repressive and more often that not employed in ignorance by those who claim to oppose it. Irony.

More vague statements about what people think with no attempt to demonstrate people actually thinking those things.

Vassenor wrote:

Zurkir wrote:
The whole white savior complex is your typical elitist nonsense. The only people who actually shill for it are these Wall Street rich people and do-gooder activist types. One might could say for example that the Twitter brigades and SJW’s are the types that subscribe to this theory, as they see a need to suppress (cancel) anything that offends them or their minority charges.

It’s an unfortunately real mechanism yes but it’s offensive and repressive and more often that not employed in ignorance by those who claim to oppose it. Irony.

More vague statements about what people think with no attempt to demonstrate people actually thinking those things.

I have before and like a flake you vanished and I’m tired of seeing you. *Boop*

@topic

I have strong ideological conflicts with Islam, but this is not okay. People need to be allowed to worship as they choose.

Zurkir wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
More vague statements about what people think with no attempt to demonstrate people actually thinking those things.

I have before and like a flake you vanished and I’m tired of seeing you. *Boop*

Well, you know what they say about things asserted without evidence and how easily those things can be dismissed.

I actively oppose encouraging women to wear the Hijab, but making it an outright crime with the force of government is too far.

Kilobugya wrote:

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:Dude, there is A LOT of difference. For instance, the difference is that in modern Christianity women hold far more rights than in Islam.

Oh really ? No right to divorce, even from abusive or violent husband. No right to contraception or abortion, no ability to control their own body. No right to be part of priesthood or the direction of the church. Sorry but the Catholic Church is still very oppressive against women.

Yeah but they aren’t at a high risk of getting raped, beaten, or murdered 24/7. The Bible is against a man abusing his wife, but Islam makes no such distinction of a wife being abusable at all...

Abortion shouldn’t even be in your argument because a good deal of non religious people are against it, being pro-life isn’t something restricted to religious people.

Also, do not screw up the nomenclature with Christianity and Catholicism. Laka Strolistandiler said modern Christianity as a whole, not specifically Catholicism. Catholicism is a sect of Christianity, but Christianity has a lot of them, don’t take the larger Christian faith and all of its sects and paint it all in the picture of one single sect. As Laka later stated he is Orthodox. I personally am Baptist, and the ideas of divorcing an abusive husband and getting an abortion when the mother’s life is in danger are commonly accepted. Controlling your wife’s body, abusing her, and restricting the church leadership to males are all frowned upon generally speaking. Those qualms you have with Catholicism do not at all compare to my faith or anybody in my church in any way and as such you should hereby understand that the sects of Christianity are very different from each other.

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:As a far-right Christian, I am fully in support of this law. Yes, I am islamaphobic. Yes, I am not ashamed of that. Deus Vult.

As am I.

Fahran wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree given that Christians, often Christians far more devout, observant, and knowledgeable than our current crop, spent centuries actively warring against Muslims and had elaborate theological justifications for doing so. I think the notion that TRUE Christianity or Islam is multicultural and tolerant in a modern liberal sense is often overplayed given the textual documents and history we have. I don't think Richard the Lionheart, Saladin, Ferdinand and Isabella, or Aurangzeb were just using religion as an excuse or simply misunderstanding the tenets of their faiths.

I agree.

Deacarsia wrote:

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:As a far-right Christian, I am fully in support of this law. Yes, I am islamaphobic. Yes, I am not ashamed of that. Deus Vult.

As am I.

Fahran wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree given that Christians, often Christians far more devout, observant, and knowledgeable than our current crop, spent centuries actively warring against Muslims and had elaborate theological justifications for doing so. I think the notion that TRUE Christianity or Islam is multicultural and tolerant in a modern liberal sense is often overplayed given the textual documents and history we have. I don't think Richard the Lionheart, Saladin, Ferdinand and Isabella, or Aurangzeb were just using religion as an excuse or simply misunderstanding the tenets of their faiths.

I agree.

now this is a substantive and meaningful post, golly gee!

Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality. France may be trying to win a battle but they're fighting in a war they will never be able to win.

The Cazistan wrote:Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality. France may be trying to win a battle but they're fighting in a war they will never be able to win.

And this is based on what actual evidence?

Vassenor wrote:

The Cazistan wrote:Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality. France may be trying to win a battle but they're fighting in a war they will never be able to win.

And this is based on what actual evidence?

Any statsitical data you look at points to you, there's a great plurality of sources that supports this. I'll link a few sources but we live in the information age, and you can look more up yourself.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876
https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/
https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-l ... ge-russia/
https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/rel ... 2010-2050/

The Cazistan wrote:Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality. France may be trying to win a battle but they're fighting in a war they will never be able to win.

Fat chance.

If it would come anywhere remotely close that and shit hit the fan a lot of french moslems would be likely face a similiar fate as the pied noirs in Algeria.

Nakena wrote:

The Cazistan wrote:Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality. France may be trying to win a battle but they're fighting in a war they will never be able to win.

Fat chance.

If it would come anywhere remotely close that and shit hit the fan a lot of french moslems would be likely face a similiar fate as the pied noirs in Algeria.

With the way liberal western countries are looking to cuckold themselves at every chance what I've suggested is far more likely to happen than your suggestion.

The Cazistan wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Fat chance.

If it would come anywhere remotely close that and shit hit the fan a lot of french moslems would be likely face a similiar fate as the pied noirs in Algeria.

With the way liberal western countries are looking to cuckold themselves at every chance what I've suggested is far more likely to happen than your suggestion.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali - a Muslim convert and critic of Islam - has actually made relatable predictions to yours actually. She recently said in an interview radical Islam itself cannot collapse western society and civilization alone - but the divisiveness of social leftism and the way it’s set about destabilizing western systems with it’s shame mongering identity politics and political correctness onslaught will aid such a feat by Islamic extremism.

The Cazistan wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Fat chance.

If it would come anywhere remotely close that and shit hit the fan a lot of french moslems would be likely face a similiar fate as the pied noirs in Algeria.

With the way liberal western countries are looking to cuckold themselves at every chance what I've suggested is far more likely to happen than your suggestion.

I feel like I just walked into a Ben Shapiro forum, ugh.

Zurkir wrote:

The Cazistan wrote:With the way liberal western countries are looking to cuckold themselves at every chance what I've suggested is far more likely to happen than your suggestion.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali - a Muslim convert and critic of Islam - has actually made relatable predictions to yours actually. She recently said in an interview radical Islam itself cannot collapse western society and civilization alone - but the divisiveness of social leftism and the way it’s set about destabilizing western systems with it’s shame mongering identity politics and political correctness onslaught will aid such a feat by Islamic extremism.

Ms Ali isn’t a convert. She was born and raised Muslim, and decided to become an apostate/leave Islam after having had enough with its teachings and unable to reconcile her faith with her experiences. Unfortunately her criticism has earned her the ire of Muslims and she now lives in hiding lest she be targeted for assassination.

The Cazistan wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
And this is based on what actual evidence?

Any statsitical data you look at points to you, there's a great plurality of sources that supports this. I'll link a few sources but we live in the information age, and you can look more up yourself.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876
https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/
https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-l ... ge-russia/
https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/rel ... 2010-2050/

When in doubt, hide behind five year old articles from conservative think tanks and decade-old guesses about what the future might be like. Dont need to use any current primary research.

Great Brytain and Ireland wrote:

Zurkir wrote:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali - a Muslim convert and critic of Islam - has actually made relatable predictions to yours actually. She recently said in an interview radical Islam itself cannot collapse western society and civilization alone - but the divisiveness of social leftism and the way it’s set about destabilizing western systems with it’s shame mongering identity politics and political correctness onslaught will aid such a feat by Islamic extremism.

Ms Ali isn’t a convert. She was born and raised Muslim, and decided to become an apostate/leave Islam after having had enough with its teachings and unable to reconcile her faith with her experiences. Unfortunately her criticism has earned her the ire of Muslims and she now lives in hiding lest she be targeted for assassination.

Pardon me on that mistake. Still though, she is very critical of radical Islam. And Islamic expansion into western countries. At least from what I gathered watching the interview. And she actually does more of the talking and answering so it’s useless to groan about Shapiro himself here. (Because you know - right of the center he is.)

She actually had to flee the Netherlands I believe after an incident involving a movie director that she was close with.

Vassenor wrote:

The Cazistan wrote:Any statsitical data you look at points to you, there's a great plurality of sources that supports this. I'll link a few sources but we live in the information age, and you can look more up yourself.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876
https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/
https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-l ... ge-russia/
https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/rel ... 2010-2050/

When in doubt, hide behind five year old articles from conservative think tanks and decade-old guesses about what the future might be like. Dont need to use any current primary research.

These studies are used from trends in the past, and as of now, they seem to be holding up.

Genivaria wrote:

The Cazistan wrote:With the way liberal western countries are looking to cuckold themselves at every chance what I've suggested is far more likely to happen than your suggestion.

I feel like I just walked into a Ben Shapiro forum, ugh.

As much as I hate Ben Shapiro, he is right on a handful of things. Broken clocks and whatnot.

I am not tremendously fond of systems that advocate for non-optional compliance with arbitrary standards of social normalcy and lack tolerance or acceptance for nonconformists.

The Cazistan wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
And this is based on what actual evidence?

Any statsitical data you look at points to you, there's a great plurality of sources that supports this. I'll link a few sources but we live in the information age, and you can look more up yourself.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876

this guy did some really rigorous statistical analysis
i mean look, he claimed it and everything

Another factor contributing to Russia’s Muslim landscape is the country’s ongoing population decline, allied with the expansion of the Muslim minority. Demography has potentially put Islam on a trajectory to be Russia’s majority religion by 2050.

how very convincing

https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/

this is literally irrelevant to your claim

https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-laruelle-how-islam-will-change-russia/

this is even worse
firstly, this is russia, not france
secondly, their only source for the claim that muslims will overtake the non-muslim russian population is "it's discussed on some muslim websites"
their fearmongering about birth rates requires not understanding how population growth works or what causes it at all...which is par for the course

https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

this is also entirely irrelevant
do people read their own sources at all

Kowani wrote:

The Cazistan wrote:Any statsitical data you look at points to you, there's a great plurality of sources that supports this. I'll link a few sources but we live in the information age, and you can look more up yourself.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876

this guy did some really rigorous statistical analysis
i mean look, he claimed it and everything

Another factor contributing to Russia’s Muslim landscape is the country’s ongoing population decline, allied with the expansion of the Muslim minority. Demography has potentially put Islam on a trajectory to be Russia’s majority religion by 2050.

how very convincing

https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/

this is literally irrelevant to your claim

https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-laruelle-how-islam-will-change-russia/

this is even worse
firstly, this is russia, not france
secondly, their only source for the claim that muslims will overtake the non-muslim russian population is "it's discussed on some muslim websites"
their fearmongering about birth rates requires not understanding how population growth works or what causes it at all...which is par for the course

https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

this is also entirely irrelevant
do people read their own sources at all

How is showing new articles and graphs of the rise of Islam NOT relevant to my point? Do people even read listed sources at all?

The Cazistan wrote:

Kowani wrote:this guy did some really rigorous statistical analysis
i mean look, he claimed it and everything

Another factor contributing to Russia’s Muslim landscape is the country’s ongoing population decline, allied with the expansion of the Muslim minority. Demography has potentially put Islam on a trajectory to be Russia’s majority religion by 2050.

how very convincing

this is literally irrelevant to your claim

this is even worse
firstly, this is russia, not france
secondly, their only source for the claim that muslims will overtake the non-muslim russian population is "it's discussed on some muslim websites"
their fearmongering about birth rates requires not understanding how population growth works or what causes it at all...which is par for the course

this is also entirely irrelevant
do people read their own sources at all

How is showing new articles and graphs of the rise of Islam NOT relevant to my point? Do people even read listed sources at all?

let us look at the original claim
"Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality."
the growth of islam in africa-which is where, as your own pew source noted, is where the vast majority of the population growth will be, has nothing to do with that

in fact, your own pew source directly disproved your claims

hm, look at that
10% by 2050

1/10, see me after class