France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

[Kilobugya]

Not all criminal activity is predicated on being poor.

Sure, actually, the worse crimes are committed by the rich - massively evading taxes, corruption, destroying the environment, making people work in unsafe conditions, ...

But that's the kind of crimes we are speaking about. The "street crimes", the ones that are most visible and that the media talk the most about are a question of poverty and lack of opportunity/ability to legally build yourself a better future, more than anything else.

[Dowaesk]

Except that we don't. The Creuse, where people struggle to make the ends meet, is not a hub of criminality.

Because it's a rural department with a very low population density. Street-level criminality happens mostly when you have a high density of poor population, in poor cities or poor area of cities.

Secondly, again if that was the case every crime from the Arab population would be money-related. But it's not the case at all, there are plenty of cases where they harass women or attack people just because of a look.

Women being harassed happens everywhere, just under different forms. There are plenty of women being harassed in mostly all-rich all-white clubs like "écoles de commerce". It has more to do with a toxic form of masculinity among young men that isn't tied to any culture or religion. As for attacking people just because of a look, "arabs"-looking people are more victim of it, overall, than whites.

Like the Mohammed Merah attacking a Jewish school or the attack at the Hyper Casher? Btw, the far-right is not really Christian, and there are plenty of Arabs among them (well, depending on the kind), such as Alain Soral who has an audience constituted by a majority of Arabs.

More doesn't mean only. Yes, there were a few famous cases done in the name of a certain vision of Islam. But most attacks against gays or Jews are done by skinheads, people close to RN/GI or otherwise neo-nazis. You should read https://www.liberation.fr/politique/en-france-une-violence-dextreme-droite-frequente-letale-et-proteiforme-20210319_QXPIPQXYSZCUPLUZAYL4YGGGFY/ for example. As Alain Soral, there are a few islamists among his supports, but they are clearly not the majority, the majority is made of GUD-like white supremacists.

They are more likely to not pay the rent compared to a French with the same revenue.

[[citation needed]]

If the revenue was different, then you wouldn't be talking about a difference of treatment from the owners because it would have been the result of a perfectly rational decision.

You're really so unable to admit that racism can be thing ? And that homeowners might be less likely to rent to people who aren't white enough not because of any rational decision about a real risk of not getting paid, but because of a perceived risk that doesn't exist, or just because they don't like the person, even if they don't consciously realize it ? Racism is deeply ingrained into many people at a subconscious level, leading to them taking irrational, biased decision even without realizing it.

You're missing the point. It's not about a lack of agents, it's about being too much of a risk for the cops with very little chance to send the perpetrator in jail. Same reason why firefighters are reluctant to go into the areas in order to avoid getting rocks thrown at them.

If they didn't behave so aggressively and thuggishly perhaps you wouldn't have stones thrown at them... but those are occasional incidents that the mass media like to repeat in loop, they don't make it a reality of "no go zones" where the police or the firefighters can't enter. Yes, when the police enter in a zone where they are regularly abusing the local population, or with a high crime rate, or both, sometimes things get heated. None of those have anything to do with "Islam" or "Arabs". All as to do with a completely broken strategy of constant hostility, brutality and stigmatization since 20 years (or more), and with area being left to sink in misery and despairs.

Also, a few things to correct: they're not checking the ID to ensure they are not illegal immigrant (because they're very rarely kicked out anyway), but to check whether they are searched for in an investigation or not.

Actually it's both. And in both cases it's highly counterproductive in term of law enforcement and humiliating against the victims of that harrassment.

And yeah, the way the Yellow Vests were handled was shitty, but the CRS which was tasked with it is a special unit whose sole purpose is to handle manifestations.

It wasn't just the CRS. I participated in several "yellow vest" and retirement reform and climate change and ... protests, it was everything, from CRS to Gendarmerie to BAC to "normal" police units that were redeployed to fire tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters instead of doing their normal jobs.

It's pretty absurd to ask for a specialized unit to some job they were absolutely not trained to do. It's as absurd as saying the SWAT should now take care of investigating sexual harassment.

Well, first we should train less CRS and less BAC, and more "normal" policemen. And then, sending the BAC (brigade anti-criminalité, those supposed to deal with dangerous organized crime) for handling a couple of grams of cannabis, as they regularly do, is exactly "ask for a specialized unit to some job they were absolutely not trained to do". And part of why the relations between the police and the "quartiers populaires" are so bad, not because of Islam, but because of bullish anti-crime police units sent to deal with low-level petty crimes.

I salute you

(its what i do when i see a post i intensely agree with it)

[Baltenstein]

It's decidedly not a poverty phenomenon. There are in fact many demographics, both ethnic and non-ethnic, with a lower social standing in German society (The Vietnamese community of Eastern Germany, to name but one, having suffered much more racist hostility both by Eastern German state authorities and Eastern German society) who haven't developed these habits.



The same way most anti-pluralist, authoritarian social structures and ideologies come about: Upbringing, peer pressure, a sense of wanting to belong to a tribe and self-reinforcing power fantasies. It's not that different from how white and other ethnic supremacist groups recruit their members. Even the obsession with "keeping the bloodline pure" by draconically guarding over the potential offspring (which girl is obligated to marry which familiy-handpicked partner and so on) is remarkably similar.

Vietnamese gangs in France are more focused on illegal people smuggling than anything else.

Stuff like this fuels these gangs: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... FPcEEoOPzp

I am talking about the Vietnamese minority in Germany. Who do not engage in the same sort of culturally specific clan culture dynamics that other demographics do. Of course there is also crime there -just like there is crime among ethnic natives of all countries - but again, it is a specific phenomenon we are talking about here.

Incidentally, your article takes exactly the sort of "law and order" approach on the issue that you usually don't hear from cultural relativists:

During a ride though Marseille's north end, police officer Kamel Bessaa tells a horror story about each housing project. He says the government's promise to bring in more cops is a good start because police in the city are underfunded and overwhelmed.

"What we need is zero tolerance," Bessaa says. "We need to follow the broken windowpane policy. If you don't fix it immediately they'll soon break the whole window. And then destroy the house. That's what's going on here."

Bessaa has a second job. He mentors teenagers as part of an association that operates out of a garage that has been transformed into a rec room with a TV, couches and computers.

The kids, who gather here after school and on weekends, clearly bond with Bessaa and the other older volunteers. Said Fassoil, who was raised by a single mother from the Comoros islands, says this center probably saved him.

He says he had no one at home to help him with his homework. But, he recalls, he could come to the center to get help. Volunteers took the kids on outings and had activities — instead of hanging around and getting in trouble.

An army recruiter came into the center last year, and Fassoil says he's proud to be starting a career in the military.

__

Tomato, tomato. It is, as they say, a multifaceted issue. Yet, poverty of the community tends to be the best early predictor. Italians get a mob before the irish, but only because they had an already formed nucleus to import, not because of anything inherent in the italian way of life that was lacking in the irish.

Um, yes it absolutely does have something to do with sociocultural roots. Not with the sum total of Italian culture and society obviously, but with a specific subset of it, namely landlord feudalism and its effects in Sicily. When the Cosa Nostra established itself in the US and other foreign countries, they didn't do so out of thin air, but by reproducing social structures that had already come about in Sicily.

[Baltenstein]

Same as with what happened in France last year. This wasn't about poor people taking up arms, it was about quasi-darwinist gang warfare power politics.

Gang wars are nothing new. Today it's Chechen and Algerian, half a century ago it was Blouson noirs, decades before the Apaches. Today it's Arab (or assimilated) "racaille", a century ago it was white "canaille". Attempt to explain those phenomena that are recurring in history by transient characteristics such as the religion or nationality of their members is of no use. If you want to tackle the problem, you've to look at root causes, not fingerpoint at a superficial symptom.

I wonder if you take the same approach on things like Neo Nazi youth gangs. Intolerance has always existed, it's no use to bitch about stuff like Swastika vandalism, immigrant families being intimated and roughened up on the street, it's a superficial phenomenon and so on.
Somehow, I doubt it.

[Nakena]

Gang wars are nothing new. Today it's Chechen and Algerian, half a century ago it was Blouson noirs, decades before the Apaches. Today it's Arab (or assimilated) "racaille", a century ago it was white "canaille". Attempt to explain those phenomena that are recurring in history by transient characteristics such as the religion or nationality of their members is of no use. If you want to tackle the problem, you've to look at root causes, not fingerpoint at a superficial symptom.

I wonder if you take the same approach on things like Neo Nazi youth gangs. Intolerance has always existed, it's no use to bitch about stuff like Swastika vandalism, immigrant families being intimated and roughened up on the street, it's a superficial phenomenon and so on.
Somehow, I doubt it.

I mean it's the same stuff. In the end. I have some good writings on the gang stuff. It's fairly normal human behaviour to form groups of organized bands. In the environment of the urban jungle that sometimes takes the form of Gangs if young ppl have no other things they can join.

[Kilobugya]

I wonder if you take the same approach on things like Neo Nazi youth gangs. Intolerance has always existed, it's no use to bitch about stuff like Swastika vandalism, immigrant families being intimated and roughened up on the street, it's a superficial phenomenon and so on.
Somehow, I doubt it.

I firmly oppose neo-nazis and even more their violent youth gangs, but I wouldn't blame their ethnicity of religion for it, nor consider banning people from going out with a shaved head because of skinheads. For neo-nazis I would also point to the root of problems - high income inequalities, lack of hope and perspective, insufficient investment in education and media/politicans rhetoric that frame things in term of race/religion rather than class struggle.

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

Muslim = Islamist ?

Isn't it the same shit but different spelling? I use it interchangably but I think muslim just seems more slang than Islamist

No Muslim is not interchangeable with islamist anymore than German is interchangeable with Nazi.

Seems like a completely different thing lmao. Nazism is an ideology and Germany is an ethnicity. Muslim and Islamist just seem the same way in terms of just addressing as someone who believes in Islam, maybe one is more formal than the other idk. Your example is fairly "rubbish" in a non-rude sounding way

[Islamic Holy Sites]

No Muslim is not interchangeable with islamist anymore than German is interchangeable with Nazi.

Seems like a completely different thing lmao. Nazism is an ideology and Germany is an ethnicity. Muslim and Islamist just seem the same way in terms of just addressing as someone who believes in Islam, maybe one is more formal than the other idk. Your example is fairly "rubbish" in a non-rude sounding way

Islamism is an ideology.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Then how come it dis-proportionally affects way more the areas where Arabs are living than other poor people?



It's not because some women are also sometimes harassed by French dudes that the majority of these acts doesn't come from Arabs. Two wrongs don't make a right. And it's completely cultural and religious, women are clearly not considered as equal by Arab/Muslim men than French. The countries where they're coming from literally don't have gender equality. And they keep the same mentality in France, like with the bar forbidden to women which Hamon tried to defend because of "cultural differences" a few years ago.

Of course Arabs are more likely to be victims of those attacks, they're living in the same areas as the perpetrators. But the victims of these attacks is irrelevant. I have never said they were racially motivated. What is relevant is the perpetrators.



No, they're not. Skinheads are barely relevant anymore. The cops put in front of the synagogue in reaction to the Islamist terrorist attacks were not put to defend against a skinhead threat.

White supremacists supporting Soral? Lmao. Dude, do you even know what his stance is? He wants a "reconciliation" between French and Arabs in order to oppose the Jews. He blames every immigration problem on the Jews and says that the Arabs are as much of a victim of it as the French. The vast majority of his support is coming from Arabs. White supremacists are not going to support a man who wants the Arabs to stay. Actually, most of the French far-right, not just white supremacists, despises him both for his stance on immigration and the fact that he spends his time supporting countries which are enemies of France like North Korea. They literally mock him by calling him Ali Soral.

Your article is behind a paywall btw.



Call a renting agency and ask them.



I'm not saying there is no racism, I'm saying that racism has roots in an actual behavior more likely to come from Arabs. Yeah, it sucks for those not doing it, but saying the problem only comes from the French is as false and biased as saying every Arab is a terrorist.



Firefighters behaving aggressively? Is that a joke? Do you have any video backing your claim of firefighter behaving in a way that they would deserve to get stones thrown at them?



Yeah, things get heated and these areas are more dangerous that the rest of France. That was my whole point. I don't get why you insisted with the straw-man of the "no-go zones" when I said in my first comment that indeed they were an exaggeration.

These areas are not being left to sink in misery and despair. Literally billions of euros are spent into these areas each year for more than twenty years.

Source?

Well? Where is it?

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

It's decidedly more complex than that. In many German cities (and in other countries too), Turkish/Lebanese (actually, ethnically Kurdish) clans are active in violent organized crime on a scale way beyond both their population percentage and that of demographics of a similar social standing. In some cities, like Bremen, they have come to dominate it and are (violently) replacing more established criminal organizations, like German biker gangs.
It's not just about them being (or rather, having been, what with all the illegal money they are making) poor. It's about deliberately cultivating an ultra-authoritarian, ultra-chauvinist and ultra-xenophobic mindset that views everyone outside the "clan" (be it the state, mainstream society, other minorities) as an enemy and a victim to be plundered.

Same as with what happened in France last year. This wasn't about poor people taking up arms, it was about quasi-darwinist gang warfare power politics.

You understand gangs appear as a result of poverty right? How do you think such a mindset is bred in a person?

Then I suppose everyone in Africa is a part of a criminal gang, therefore, making it a complete state run on the mafia. Or even north korea would be full of gangs by that logic

[Kilobugya]

Muslim and Islamist just seem the same way in terms of just addressing as someone who believes in Islam, maybe one is more formal than the other idk.

No. A Muslim is someone who believes in Islam. An Islamist is an adherent of a political ideology that claims the State religion should be Islam and laws of the State should be based on Shariah. Those are two totally different things.

[Insaanistan]

You understand gangs appear as a result of poverty right? How do you think such a mindset is bred in a person?

Then I suppose everyone in Africa is a part of a criminal gang, therefore, making it a complete state run on the mafia. Or even north korea would be full of gangs by that logic

If you’re more concerned with defending your farm against raiders and animals eating your food to not starve than you are trying to get enough money to buy food at the store to not starve your less likely to need to turn to crime.
That being said Africa is full of gangs.
The richest country, Nigeria, has a problem with gangs and terrorists kidnapping and killing people so terrible that schools in certain states have been shut down.
In places such as Kenya often times gangs go around raiding farms.

Some gangs raid farms based off of the tribe of the farmer.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Then I suppose everyone in Africa is a part of a criminal gang, therefore, making it a complete state run on the mafia. Or even north korea would be full of gangs by that logic

If you’re more concerned with defending your farm against raiders and animals eating your food to not starve than you are trying to get enough money to buy food at the store to not starve your less likely to need to turn to crime.
That being said Africa is full of gangs.
The richest country, Nigeria, has a problem with gangs and terrorists kidnapping and killing people so terrible that schools in certain states have been shut down.
In places such as Kenya often times gangs go around raiding farms.

Some gangs raid farms based off of the tribe of the farmer.

Actually, the richest is Egypt.

[Insaanistan]

No Muslim is not interchangeable with islamist anymore than German is interchangeable with Nazi.

Seems like a completely different thing lmao. Nazism is an ideology and Germany is an ethnicity. Muslim and Islamist just seem the same way in terms of just addressing as someone who believes in Islam, maybe one is more formal than the other idk. Your example is fairly "rubbish" in a non-rude sounding way

Islamist is a political ideology and Muslim is a practicer of a religion.
Germany is a country.
German is both an ethnic term as well as a nationality: a black guy whose parents are Namibian, a white/brown guy whose parents are Turkish and a white guy whose parents have lived in Germany for centuries are all German.

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

Then I suppose everyone in Africa is a part of a criminal gang, therefore, making it a complete state run on the mafia. Or even north korea would be full of gangs by that logic

If you’re more concerned with defending your farm against raiders and animals eating your food to not starve than you are trying to get enough money to buy food at the store to not starve your less likely to need to turn to crime.
That being said Africa is full of gangs.
The richest country, Nigeria, has a problem with gangs and terrorists kidnapping and killing people so terrible that schools in certain states have been shut down.
In places such as Kenya often times gangs go around raiding farms.

Some gangs raid farms based off of the tribe of the farmer.

>Richest country in africa
>Nigeria
Pretty sure it would be Egypt or if you lived around 1969-2011 Libya

[Insaanistan]

If you’re more concerned with defending your farm against raiders and animals eating your food to not starve than you are trying to get enough money to buy food at the store to not starve your less likely to need to turn to crime.
That being said Africa is full of gangs.
The richest country, Nigeria, has a problem with gangs and terrorists kidnapping and killing people so terrible that schools in certain states have been shut down.
In places such as Kenya often times gangs go around raiding farms.

Some gangs raid farms based off of the tribe of the farmer.

Actually, the richest is Egypt.

Egypt is third after
1. Nigeria
2. South Africa

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Actually, the richest is Egypt.

Egypt is third after
1. Nigeria
2. South Africa

It's actually 1st, Nigeria is second.

[Kilobugya]

You understand gangs appear as a result of poverty right? How do you think such a mindset is bred in a person?

Then I suppose everyone in Africa is a part of a criminal gang, therefore, making it a complete state run on the mafia. Or even north korea would be full of gangs by that logic

It's more income inequality that drives crime, especially in zones of high population density. If "everyone" is poor in a country, they suffer, but with a relatively low level of criminality. It's when there are both very poor and very rich people living close to each other, especially in a dense urban area, that you have high level of "street crimes". Hence why Latin American cities tend to be the ones with the highest crime. It's no wonder if countries like Mexico, Brazil, South Africa, Honduras, Colombia and USA are among the top both in "cities with high murder rate" and in "countries by high gini".

Of course there are other factors, but it's the most important one, not religion or skin color.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Egypt is third after
1. Nigeria
2. South Africa

It's actually 1st, Nigeria is second.

Wait, newer articles say it's Nigeria.

[Insaanistan]

If you’re more concerned with defending your farm against raiders and animals eating your food to not starve than you are trying to get enough money to buy food at the store to not starve your less likely to need to turn to crime.
That being said Africa is full of gangs.
The richest country, Nigeria, has a problem with gangs and terrorists kidnapping and killing people so terrible that schools in certain states have been shut down.
In places such as Kenya often times gangs go around raiding farms.

Some gangs raid farms based off of the tribe of the farmer.

>Richest country in africa
>Nigeria
Pretty sure it would be Egypt or if you lived around 1969-2011 Libya

Nigeria is the richest country in Africa and the richest man in Nigeria, Aliko Dangote, is the richest man in Africa and one of the richest in the world.

Nigeria is a rich and big country.
It just has an absolutely enormous wage gap.

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

a black guy whose parents are Namibian, a white/brown guy whose parents are Turkish and a white guy whose parents have lived in Germany for centuries are all German.

No, they would be Namibian. I may live in Australia and have Australian citizenship from birth but you don't see me being called Australian, I'm still a Serb. If you are ethnically German then you are German, same as if you are ethnically Namibian you are Namibian or any other ethnicity. You dont become x by being born in x if you are instead y as your genetic code and blood is y

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

>Richest country in africa
>Nigeria
Pretty sure it would be Egypt or if you lived around 1969-2011 Libya

Nigeria is the richest country in Africa and the richest man in Nigeria, Aliko Dangote, is the richest man in Africa and one of the richest in the world.

Nigeria is a rich and big country.
It just has an absolutely enormous wage gap.

And massively underdeveloped. It would unironically be better to live in NK than Nigeria

[Insaanistan]

a black guy whose parents are Namibian, a white/brown guy whose parents are Turkish and a white guy whose parents have lived in Germany for centuries are all German.

No, they would be Namibian. I may live in Australia and have Australian citizenship from birth but you don't see me being called Australian, I'm still a Serb. If you are ethnically German then you are German, same as if you are ethnically Namibian you are Namibian or any other ethnicity. You dont become x by being born in x if you are instead y as your genetic code and blood is y

By this logic Donald Trump is not American: he’s actually German and Scottish.

The only person that can claim to be ethnically Australian is a Aborigine, and most of them were murdered in genocide.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

No Muslim is not interchangeable with islamist anymore than German is interchangeable with Nazi.

Seems like a completely different thing lmao. Nazism is an ideology and Germany is an ethnicity. Muslim and Islamist just seem the same way in terms of just addressing as someone who believes in Islam, maybe one is more formal than the other idk. Your example is fairly "rubbish" in a non-rude sounding way

No an islamist is someone who wants to make politics a matter of religion. Not all Muslims do that.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

a black guy whose parents are Namibian, a white/brown guy whose parents are Turkish and a white guy whose parents have lived in Germany for centuries are all German.

No, they would be Namibian. I may live in Australia and have Australian citizenship from birth but you don't see me being called Australian, I'm still a Serb. If you are ethnically German then you are German, same as if you are ethnically Namibian you are Namibian or any other ethnicity. You dont become x by being born in x if you are instead y as your genetic code and blood is y

Genes don't mean much when we're talking about cultures and countries. Anyone can integrate into a culture and become part of it.