France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

[The Cazistan]

How is showing new articles and graphs of the rise of Islam NOT relevant to my point? Do people even read listed sources at all?

let us look at the original claim
"Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality."
the growth of islam in africa-which is where, as your own pew source noted, is where the vast majority of the population growth will be, has nothing to do with that

in fact, your own pew source directly disproved your claims

hm, look at that
10% by 2050

1/10, see me after class

Islam is clearly growing in that graph, also i didn't say anything about 2050, I just pulled a bunch of statistics together for a broad analysis.
Just stop while you're ahead.

[Zizou]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/
https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/rel ... 2010-2050/

Both of these sources say that there are more Muslims being born in general, and that Islam is currently the fastest growing religion within Europe. Neither of them make the prediction that Islam is going to become the majority religion within Europe.

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876
https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-l ... ge-russia/

The population trends of Russia are not those of France. While both countries have comparable birth rates, Russia has a higher death rate, resulting in the population of Russia decreasing at the same rate the population of France is increasing.

[Kowani]

let us look at the original claim
"Islam will overtake the west in general through immigration or native reversion. Muslims have higher birthrates and as the west continues to torture itself with secularism more people will look to Islam for spirituality."
the growth of islam in africa-which is where, as your own pew source noted, is where the vast majority of the population growth will be, has nothing to do with that

in fact, your own pew source directly disproved your claims

hm, look at that
10% by 2050

1/10, see me after class

Islam is clearly growing in that graph, also i didn't say anything about 2050, I just pulled a bunch of statistics together for a broad analysis.
Just stop while you're ahead.

this is aggresively dumb
both of your other sources (the ones that made claims about demography, anyway) claimed islam would be dominant by 2050
your pew source claimed differently
that you cannot make sure that your own sources do not contradict one another is not my fault

also
that islam is growing in the graph doesn't mean anything, unless you don't know how extrapolation of trends works

[The Cazistan]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/05/14/th ... religions/
https://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/rel ... 2010-2050/

Both of these sources say that there are more Muslims being born in general, and that Islam is currently the fastest growing religion within Europe. Neither of them make the prediction that Islam is going to become the majority religion within Europe.

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1476876
https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-l ... ge-russia/

The population trends of Russia are not those of France. While both countries have comparable birth rates, Russia has a higher death rate, meaning that the population of Russia is decreasing at the same rate the population of France is increasing.

Yes, there are more Muslims being born in general, they reproduce faster, including in Europe, if this trend were to go uninterrupted Islam would become the majority religion.
And as i said, Russia wasn't really the point I'm just trying to give a very real example of a historically Christian nation that has a great likelihood of becoming majority Muslim or at the very least have Islam become a very large minority within the end of my life.

[The Cazistan]

Islam is clearly growing in that graph, also i didn't say anything about 2050, I just pulled a bunch of statistics together for a broad analysis.
Just stop while you're ahead.

this is aggresively dumb
both of your other sources (the ones that made claims about demography, anyway) claimed islam would be dominant by 2050
your pew source claimed differently
that you cannot make sure that your own sources do not contradict one another is not my fault

also
that islam is growing in the graph doesn't mean anything, unless you don't know how extrapolation of trends works

Which part of "broad analysis" skipped over your head. Stop being an edgy contrarian for the sake of it. Get a life.

[Kowani]

this is aggresively dumb
both of your other sources (the ones that made claims about demography, anyway) claimed islam would be dominant by 2050
your pew source claimed differently
that you cannot make sure that your own sources do not contradict one another is not my fault

also
that islam is growing in the graph doesn't mean anything, unless you don't know how extrapolation of trends works

Which part of "broad analysis" skipped over your head. Stop being an edgy contrarian for the sake of it. Get a life.

that's not what either of those things mean

[The Cazistan]

Which part of "broad analysis" skipped over your head. Stop being an edgy contrarian for the sake of it. Get a life.

that's not what either of those things mean

There you go proving my point, I have better things to do than talk to someone like you.
A bit of advice, You have something like 34 thousand messages on a text based scenario game forum in only 3 or so years. From what I've seen, the majority of it is you jumping into pointless arguments with people and trying to refute them to no end or success.
Go outside or something.

[Zizou]

Yes, there are more Muslims being born in general, they reproduce faster, including in Europe, if this trend were to go uninterrupted Islam would become the majority religion.

I highly doubt that the current trend is going to go on uninterrupted. Birth rates have more to do with how developed a country is, rather than the religion of the people within them. It is a reasonable conclusion to assume that Muslim birth rates are going to naturally decline over time in Europe.

And as i said, Russia wasn't really the point I'm just trying to give a very real example of a historically Christian nation that has a great likelihood of becoming majority Muslim or at the very least have Islam become a very large minority within the end of my life.

What are you trying to show with this example then? Because this holds very little weight within the context of Western Europe, and this is in no way an indication that all other "historically Christian" nations are going to follow suit.

[Kowani]

that's not what either of those things mean

There you go proving my point, I have better things to do than talk to someone like you.
A bit of advice, You have something like 34 thousand messages on a text based scenario game forum in only 3 or so years. From what I've seen, the majority of it is you jumping into pointless arguments with people and trying to refute them to no end or success.
Go outside or something.

lmao

[Washington Resistance Army]

that's not what either of those things mean

There you go proving my point, I have better things to do than talk to someone like you.
A bit of advice, You have something like 34 thousand messages on a text based scenario game forum in only 3 or so years. From what I've seen, the majority of it is you jumping into pointless arguments with people and trying to refute them to no end or success.
Go outside or something.

ngl coming to a niche discussion forum and getting BTFO'd and then responding "go outside reeeee" is way more cringey than posting a lot

[The Cazistan]

Yes, there are more Muslims being born in general, they reproduce faster, including in Europe, if this trend were to go uninterrupted Islam would become the majority religion.

I highly doubt that the current trend is going to go on uninterrupted. Birth rates have more to do with how developed a country is, rather than the religion of the people within them. It is a reasonable conclusion to assume that Muslim birth rates are going to naturally decline over time in Europe.

And as i said, Russia wasn't really the point I'm just trying to give a very real example of a historically Christian nation that has a great likelihood of becoming majority Muslim or at the very least have Islam become a very large minority within the end of my life.

What are you trying to show with this example then? Because this holds very little weight within the context of Western Europe, and this is in no way an indication that all other "historically Christian" nations are going to follow suit.

Do enlighten me on how a very large Christian nation becoming Muslim has no relation to the rise of Islam in smaller Christian nations on the same continent.
Also, Muslims will more than likely not follow the birth rate decline in the west, it might be severely dampened from economic concerns, but it should maintain a higher birthrate for the foreseeable future. Regardless, if western nations are still going to delude themselves into believing unrelenting immigration is good for their nation, Muslims who are not accustomed to the west will fill any potential gap westernized Muslims leave in the birthrate advantage.

[The Cazistan]

There you go proving my point, I have better things to do than talk to someone like you.
A bit of advice, You have something like 34 thousand messages on a text based scenario game forum in only 3 or so years. From what I've seen, the majority of it is you jumping into pointless arguments with people and trying to refute them to no end or success.
Go outside or something.

ngl coming to a niche discussion forum and getting BTFO'd and then responding "go outside reeeee" is way more cringey than posting a lot

Misinterpreting an argument and me attempting to correct their interpretation is not getting BTFO'd.
Also you've got some nerve with those 48k messages.

[Insaanistan]

To be honest, when it comes to economics, the vast majority of people between the Agricultural Revolution c. 10,000 BCE and the Industrial Revolution c. 1750 CE lived on basically the same living standard - barely enough to put food on the table enough days of the year to stay alive.

"Culture", "scholarship", "philosophy"... when we're talking about these things in pre-industrial society, we are talking about the lives of a tiny minority of social elites that is not at all representative of the societies that they stand for. I'd say that the first society to have "prosperity" worth talking about is the Dutch Republic and even then ehhh.

In which case the Middle Ages weren't really all that different before the development of modernity. Which is why the "Dark Ages" are a myth as they're commonly perceived, is my point.

The Dark Ages were a real period. That isn’t to say white Christians just spent that time sitting around starving. That’s not true. But compared to the intelectual strides of the Greeks and Romans and of the inevitable Renaissance, they just generally weren’t doing much academically or technologically speaking. Meanwhile, al-Biruni in the outstretches of Persian influence was stating there was likely a landmass to the west of the Atlantic Ocean and almost exactly calculating the earth’s diameter, Mansa Abu Bakri in Mali was sailing across the Atlantic as he had the same theory, al-Jahiz was in Iraq deducing humans likely came from primates and stating this idea didn’t conflict with the Qur’ân, and al-Khwarizmi was in Persia creating the bane of of every student’s existence: even harder math.

Were Europeans stumbling around in caves like Homo Neanderthalensis? No, not at all. But were they up to par with the Middle East, South Asia and much of West Africa at the time? No, not exactly.

[Washington Resistance Army]

ngl coming to a niche discussion forum and getting BTFO'd and then responding "go outside reeeee" is way more cringey than posting a lot

Misinterpreting an argument and me attempting to correct their interpretation is not getting BTFO'd.
Also you've got some nerve with those 48k messages.

I work from home and have for about 5 years now lol, the glories of having multiple monitors is I can multitask with ease.

Yes, there are more Muslims being born in general, they reproduce faster, including in Europe, if this trend were to go uninterrupted Islam would become the majority religion.

I highly doubt that the current trend is going to go on uninterrupted. Birth rates have more to do with how developed a country is, rather than the religion of the people within them. It is a reasonable conclusion to assume that Muslim birth rates are going to naturally decline over time in Europe.

This is also why a lot of people stopped worrying about the African population boom. Yeah it is exploding right now but in a couple decades it will almost certainly sink to current Western levels.

[Insaanistan]

I highly doubt that the current trend is going to go on uninterrupted. Birth rates have more to do with how developed a country is, rather than the religion of the people within them. It is a reasonable conclusion to assume that Muslim birth rates are going to naturally decline over time in Europe.


What are you trying to show with this example then? Because this holds very little weight within the context of Western Europe, and this is in no way an indication that all other "historically Christian" nations are going to follow suit.

Do enlighten me on how a very large Christian nation becoming Muslim has no relation to the rise of Islam in smaller Christian nations on the same continent.
Also, Muslims will more than likely not follow the birth rate decline in the west, it might be severely dampened from economic concerns, but it should maintain a higher birthrate for the foreseeable future. Regardless, if western nations are still going to delude themselves into believing unrelenting immigration is good for their nation, Muslims who are not accustomed to the west will fill any potential gap westernized Muslims leave in the birthrate advantage.

Russia isn’t going to be Muslim majority. However, Muslims already are a large minority there. The country was once waaaay more Muslim but it’s rulers spent several centuries genociding, forcibly converting and expelling the Muslims from the area.

Muslims will not “takeover the West”.

[Punished UMN]

In which case the Middle Ages weren't really all that different before the development of modernity. Which is why the "Dark Ages" are a myth as they're commonly perceived, is my point.

The Dark Ages were a real period. That isn’t to say white Christians just spent that time sitting around starving. That’s not true. But compared to the intelectual strides of the Greeks and Romans and of the inevitable Renaissance, they just generally weren’t doing much academically or technologically speaking. Meanwhile, al-Biruni in the outstretches of Persian influence was stating there was likely a landmass to the west of the Atlantic Ocean and almost exactly calculating the earth’s diameter, Mansa Abu Bakri in Mali was sailing across the Atlantic as he had the same theory, al-Jahiz was in Iraq deducing humans likely came from primates and stating this idea didn’t conflict with the Qur’ân, and al-Khwarizmi was in Persia creating the bane of of every student’s existence: even harder math.

Were Europeans stumbling around in caves like Homo Neanderthalensis? No, not at all. But were they up to par with the Middle East, South Asia and much of West Africa at the time? No, not exactly.

Medieval technology made leaps and bounds above Roman technology in several areas in Europe. You shouldn't mistake that the Romans were a large state spanning the entire Mediterranean world able to draw upon vast resources from three continents for them being more technologically advanced.

[Insaanistan]

The Dark Ages were a real period. That isn’t to say white Christians just spent that time sitting around starving. That’s not true. But compared to the intelectual strides of the Greeks and Romans and of the inevitable Renaissance, they just generally weren’t doing much academically or technologically speaking. Meanwhile, al-Biruni in the outstretches of Persian influence was stating there was likely a landmass to the west of the Atlantic Ocean and almost exactly calculating the earth’s diameter, Mansa Abu Bakri in Mali was sailing across the Atlantic as he had the same theory, al-Jahiz was in Iraq deducing humans likely came from primates and stating this idea didn’t conflict with the Qur’ân, and al-Khwarizmi was in Persia creating the bane of of every student’s existence: even harder math.

Were Europeans stumbling around in caves like Homo Neanderthalensis? No, not at all. But were they up to par with the Middle East, South Asia and much of West Africa at the time? No, not exactly.

Medieval technology made leaps and bounds above Roman technology in several areas in Europe. You shouldn't mistake that the Romans were a large state spanning the entire Mediterranean world able to draw upon vast resources from three continents for them being more technologically advanced.

The Romans were less technological and more government experimentation and intellectual advancements.

Like the Islamic Golden Age, much of this was of course drawn from the Greeks.

[Punished UMN]

Medieval technology made leaps and bounds above Roman technology in several areas in Europe. You shouldn't mistake that the Romans were a large state spanning the entire Mediterranean world able to draw upon vast resources from three continents for them being more technologically advanced.

The Romans were less technological and more government experimentation and intellectual advancements.

Like the Islamic Golden Age, much of this was of course drawn from the Greeks.

On the contrary, Medieval European political philosophy became more advanced than political philosophy anywhere else outside of China, and the overreliance upon Greek and Roman philosophy stunted intellectual development, including in the Middle East, which was decisively eclipsed by Europe not long after the middle ages.

[Dofelkvic]

With all the beheading, suicidal bombers, and truck drivers purposely driving towards pedestrians and killing them I think they do have a reason to implement such strict rules right now.

[Zurkir]

Medieval technology made leaps and bounds above Roman technology in several areas in Europe. You shouldn't mistake that the Romans were a large state spanning the entire Mediterranean world able to draw upon vast resources from three continents for them being more technologically advanced.

The Romans were less technological and more government experimentation and intellectual advancements.

Like the Islamic Golden Age, much of this was of course drawn from the Greeks.

I don’t know, technology wise Rome accomplished quite a bit.

Their architecture alone was marvelous. They developed modern plumbing and sanitation management. The hypocaust system which was a heating mechanism somewhat similar to modern-day central heating, or radiant floor heating. Aqueducts, surgical tools, bound books, their highway systems, and while they did not “invent siege warfare” they were pioneers of it.

Concrete.

The Romans weren’t just philosophers, legionnaires, and government types.

[The Sherpa Empire]

It's a piece of clothing. It's not like it's an irreversible surgery or something. France needs to chill the fuck out.

[Zizou]

Do enlighten me on how a very large Christian nation becoming Muslim has no relation to the rise of Islam in smaller Christian nations on the same continent.

Because your example uses a country where the population is naturally declining. Every country in Western Europe either has a stable or increasing population. Just because these countries are on the same continent does not mean that they are in a similar state.

Also, Muslims will more than likely not follow the birth rate decline in the west, it might be severely dampened from economic concerns, but it should maintain a higher birthrate for the foreseeable future. Regardless, if western nations are still going to delude themselves into believing unrelenting immigration is good for their nation, Muslims who are not accustomed to the west will fill any potential gap westernized Muslims leave in the birthrate advantage.

Assuming your source is accurate, Muslims will make up 10% of the population within Europe in 2050. I don't see them making up the 40% difference any time soon, especially due to the fact that Muslim birth rates will also be declining.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

It's a piece of clothing. It's not like it's an irreversible surgery or something. France needs to chill the fuck out.

England, stop stealing France's baguettes! You'll start a war again!

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

It's a piece of clothing. It's not like it's an irreversible surgery or something. France needs to chill the fuck out.

With the order they receive from the Vatican, they forbid the hijab, they say they are against pronography, but they do not refrain from secretly liking the Instagram female models. Right-wing religious nationalism creates enemies, secularism provides freedom.

[Necroghastia]

With all the beheading, suicidal bombers, and truck drivers purposely driving towards pedestrians and killing them I think they do have a reason to implement such strict rules right now.

So how does telling minors and anyone interested in chaperoning that they can't wear a simple head covering do anything about such incidents?