France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

[J o J]

If you knew me you would realize I am the opposite of a snowflake. People that wear overly exposing clothing are freaks and disgusting and they need to cover themselves up. I don’t want my little sister to ask why that man is wearing a pair of jeans with massive “stylized” holes in them that show his underwear and thighs when we’re getting lunch at a restaurant. Same for women. Nobody gives a shit about your shoulders except perverts, quit trying to show off and sexualize yourself with a crop top and wear a normal shirt or dress. It’s inexcusable and degenerate, there’s no reason for either sex to be showing all of that.

I agree.
But maybe nakedness and prostitution is part of the Secularism package

That depends on what value you place on sex and how you interpret it really. I don’t think all secularists agree on it. Personally I don’t find prostitution as a legitimate business, but on the other hand what people do in their bedrooms and within their own homes is their business and not the business of the state. While prostitution degrades the moral and interpersonal significance of sexual interaction, and increases the risk of STD transmission, I don’t think it’s in a secular state’s interest (or feasible ability) to outlaw it.

And on the note of secularism, I’ll reiterate my stance that France banning the Hijab for those under 18 is an overstep and misuse of state authority because it’s favoring or disfavoring a certain religion, and the church and state ought to be separate.

[Kilobugya]

But maybe nakedness and prostitution is part of the Secularism package

Nakedness and prostitution don't have much in common. In Nordic countries nakedness is quite common and isn't much of big deal, but prostitution is very frown up. And in many "prudish" countries prostitution is actually quite frequent and tolerated.

Prostitution is more a consequence of severe income inequality than of anything else.

[Volodiograd]

If you knew me you would realize I am the opposite of a snowflake. People that wear overly exposing clothing are freaks and disgusting and they need to cover themselves up. I don’t want my little sister to ask why that man is wearing a pair of jeans with massive “stylized” holes in them that show his underwear and thighs when we’re getting lunch at a restaurant. Same for women. Nobody gives a shit about your shoulders except perverts, quit trying to show off and sexualize yourself with a crop top and wear a normal shirt or dress. It’s inexcusable and degenerate, there’s no reason for either sex to be showing all of that.

I agree.
But maybe nakedness and prostitution is part of the Secularism package

It's not. Prostitution is literally illegal in France for instance.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don’t think I it’s a bad policy. Parents could be forcing under 18s to wear hijabs. This protects the children from religious indoctrination.

[The Alma Mater]

I don’t think I it’s a bad policy. Parents could be forcing under 18s to wear hijabs. This protects the children from religious indoctrination.

But if you do not indoctrinate children, they might not become religious. Or even pick a different one.
So religion starts when one is born. Preferably with loads of rituals like dunking some water on a baby; or even physical marking by mutilating its genitals. And then continues nonstop.

It works. Very few people fully abandon a religion they were raised in.

[Odreria]

I don’t think I it’s a bad policy. Parents could be forcing under 18s to wear hijabs. This protects the children from religious indoctrination.

It is both natural and good that children are raised in their parents' religion.

[Atheara]

Booooooy, the world is going nuts with muslims, i don't really hate the french policy as an Indonesian muslim, but it's really just stupid.

Ahh yes, the life of an indonesian.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

The difference between nuns and normal women is far too obvious eh?

Religious dress is religious dress. If Islamic dress needs to be banned in the name of state secularism then so does Christian religious dress.

Dude, there is A LOT of difference. For instance, the difference is that in modern Christianity women hold far more rights than in Islam.
Second of all, nuns are, mostly, over 18 and are far less common than poor Muslim children.
Take into account that my perception of their religion is heavily biased because I really dislike em and would probably support anything that is bad for them just saying eh

[Kilobugya]

I don’t think I it’s a bad policy. Parents could be forcing under 18s to wear hijabs. This protects the children from religious indoctrination.

I don't think wearing or not wearing a hijab is doing much about children because indoctrinated by their parents. If they really wanted to protect children from being indoctrinated by their parents' religion, they would be confessional schools or catechism or even taking children to church/synagogue/mosque. Not wearing hijabs.

It is both natural and good that children are raised in their parents' religion.

"Natural" is. "Good" I don't think so, but it's hard to prevent so we have to do with it. But there is a line between "raised" and "indoctrinated", and for myself I would ban all confessional schools before 18 or maybe 16. But not go as micromanaging as saying people what they should or shouldn't wear.

[Kilobugya]

Dude, there is A LOT of difference. For instance, the difference is that in modern Christianity women hold far more rights than in Islam.

Oh really ? No right to divorce, even from abusive or violent husband. No right to contraception or abortion, no ability to control their own body. No right to be part of priesthood or the direction of the church. Sorry but the Catholic Church is still very oppressive against women.

[Nakena]

It's not. Prostitution is literally illegal in France for instance.

It's still widespread.

[Kilobugya]

It's not. Prostitution is literally illegal in France for instance.

It's still widespread.

As it is everywhere in the world. Prostitution is inherent to class societies such as capitalism. As long as you've very high income inequalities, some of the upper class will pay some of the lower class for sex. It doesn't much to do with secularism or atheism. There is lots of it even in very religious and officially prude countries like Saudi Arabia.

[Zurkir]

It's still widespread.

As it is everywhere in the world. Prostitution is inherent to class societies such as capitalism. As long as you've very high income inequalities, some of the upper class will pay some of the lower class for sex. It doesn't much to do with secularism or atheism. There is lots of it even in very religious and officially prude countries like Saudi Arabia.

Where there are humans there is sex for sale. It transcends systems and classes.

[Kilobugya]

Where there are humans there is sex for sale. It transcends systems and classes.

Cuba is very few "internal" prostitution. The prostitution that exists there is almost exclusively targeted at tourists, who are de facto a different class (both because of the blockade and because tourists in general are rather upper-middle class). But sure prostitution will always exist, in a form or another. High income inequalities just make it more widespread and increases the odds of prostitute being abused, forced or coerced into it, and overall poorly treated.

[Zurkir]

Where there are humans there is sex for sale. It transcends systems and classes.

Cuba is very few "internal" prostitution. The prostitution that exists there is almost exclusively targeted at tourists, who are de facto a different class (both because of the blockade and because tourists in general are rather upper-middle class). But sure prostitution will always exist, in a form or another. High income inequalities just make it more widespread and increases the odds of prostitute being abused, forced or coerced into it, and overall poorly treated.

On a side remark my old high school principal adopted a girl from China (back around 2012) and he said that one would get mobbed by prostitutes just walking from his hotel to a market. So he said anyway.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don’t think I it’s a bad policy. Parents could be forcing under 18s to wear hijabs. This protects the children from religious indoctrination.

I don't think wearing or not wearing a hijab is doing much about children because indoctrinated by their parents. If they really wanted to protect children from being indoctrinated by their parents' religion, they would be confessional schools or catechism or even taking children to church/synagogue/mosque. Not wearing hijabs.

One little step at a time? I’m okay with any limited or incidental progress.

[Insaanistan]

Religious dress is religious dress. If Islamic dress needs to be banned in the name of state secularism then so does Christian religious dress.

Dude, there is A LOT of difference. For instance, the difference is that in modern Christianity women hold far more rights than in Islam.
Second of all, nuns are, mostly, over 18 and are far less common than poor Muslim children.
Take into account that my perception of their religion is heavily biased because I really dislike em and would probably support anything that is bad for them just saying eh

Woman in Islam literally were allowed to fight in the army, could ride camels and horses by themselves, could be scholars and teachers and judges and scientists, could lead armies, could initiate divorce, had the right to inheritance, and were explicitly said to be equal to men.

Not to mention forced marriages are deemed invalid in Islam and women explicitly are to have the right to choose or refuse who they want to marry.
And the Qur’ân ended the pagan Arab practice of burying newborn girls alive and explicitly chastised and condemned fathers who were ashamed of having daughters or treated their sons better.

[Insaanistan]

Ironically, in Muslim majority countries, generally the guys who pay for prostitution are the same guys forcing strict “shariā law” on their people.

Kinda like how the Taliban would arrest little kids for banging in a rhythmically on boxes, but would then have slave boys play music for them in private.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Dude, there is A LOT of difference. For instance, the difference is that in modern Christianity women hold far more rights than in Islam.

Oh really ? No right to divorce, even from abusive or violent husband. No right to contraception or abortion, no ability to control their own body. No right to be part of priesthood or the direction of the church. Sorry but the Catholic Church is still very oppressive against women.

“Catholic”?
Pal, I’m Russian orthodox. We have the contraception right, and WDYM “control on ones body” the right to murder fetuses? Or to torture your body and mind by becoming a “man”?

[Paddy O Fernature]

Dude, there is A LOT of difference. For instance, the difference is that in modern Christianity women hold far more rights than in Islam.
Second of all, nuns are, mostly, over 18 and are far less common than poor Muslim children.
Take into account that my perception of their religion is heavily biased because I really dislike em and would probably support anything that is bad for them just saying eh

Woman in Islam literally were allowed to fight in the army, could ride camels and horses by themselves, could be scholars and teachers and judges and scientists, could lead armies, could initiate divorce, had the right to inheritance, and were explicitly said to be equal to men.

Not to mention forced marriages are deemed invalid in Islam and women explicitly are to have the right to choose or refuse who they want to marry.
And the Qur’ân ended the pagan Arab practice of burying newborn girls alive and explicitly chastised and condemned fathers who were ashamed of having daughters or treated their sons better.

Remember folks, "Were allowed" is the key words here.

[Kilobugya]

Oh really ? No right to divorce, even from abusive or violent husband. No right to contraception or abortion, no ability to control their own body. No right to be part of priesthood or the direction of the church. Sorry but the Catholic Church is still very oppressive against women.

“Catholic”?
Pal, I’m Russian orthodox.

Ah sorry I don't know much about orthodox. But in Catholicism women have very rights, less than in many forms of Islam. So at the very best Christianity is very much like Islam - depending of the various sects and interpretation of it, it's more or less oppressive for women.

We have the contraception right, and WDYM “control on ones body” the right to murder fetuses?

Embryos aren't human beings, they have no brain, and therefore no consciousness, no ability to think, no desire, no dreams, no hope, no emotion. They are no more people than any other lump of cells. I can understand late-term abortion being problematic, but equating early-term abortion to murder is just utterly ridiculous, when there isn't a developed enough brain for a person to exist within, it just can't be murder.

Or to torture your body and mind by becoming a “man”?

Torture is forcing people to stay in a body that doesn't correspond to their gender, not allowing them to become more attuned to how they identify themselves.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Torture is forcing people to stay in a body that doesn't correspond to their gender, not allowing them to become more attuned to how they identify themselves.

Gender theory is absolute BS based on biased and falsified research. Trans suicide rates, although partially based in the fact that they receive what they deserve is also because being a trans person is gender illness.

[Zurkir]

Torture is forcing people to stay in a body that doesn't correspond to their gender, not allowing them to become more attuned to how they identify themselves.

Gender theory is absolute BS based on biased and falsified research. Trans suicide rates, although partially based in the fact that they receive what they deserve is also because being a trans person is gender illness.

You better be careful. Your about to summon a gale.

[Kilobugya]

Trans suicide rates, although partially based in the fact that they receive what they deserve is also because being a trans person is gender illness.

Receive what they deserve ? And you claim yourself Christian ? Disgusting.

As for the rest, trans suicide happen when they are bullied or denied transitioning, NOT after they were allowed to transition and are treated fairly.

[Nakena]

Torture is forcing people to stay in a body that doesn't correspond to their gender, not allowing them to become more attuned to how they identify themselves.

Gender theory is absolute BS based on biased and falsified research. Trans suicide rates, although partially based in the fact that they receive what they deserve is also because being a trans person is gender illness.

Wrong thread.