France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

[Vassenor]

I'm not even saying that. I'm saying that vague "people think this" posts do actually need backing up.

Sympathy mongering among Muslims and Muslim nations isn’t exactly an unknown. The whole “the united western world is out to get and nuke us all” (even though we’re spreading from the Middle East into western countries) hasn’t exactly been unheard of.

Then it won't be hard for the poster in question to provide evidence of the specific views they claim are widespread.

[Kilobugya]

I do consider burqas to be symptomatic of the problematic sexism inherent in Islam.

That being said, I agree that prohibiting children from wearing it is not a good idea. First, it’s rarely effective to just stamp down on symbols of a problematic idea, and second, as many people have already pointed out a burqa ban is probably going to lead to even more gender discrimination as conservative practitioners hold their daughters back from public life.

Burqas and Hijabs are quite different - hijabs only cover the hairs but leave the face visible. Burqas cover everything. I'm all fine with people (including teenagers) wearing hijabs if they want to. I'm uncomfortable with burqas which seem excessive to me, but as you said I do believe a ban is the wrong way to address the issue and will cause more harm than good.

[Prosperus Happyland]

There are women who wear headscarves like Sevgi Kılıç in the world and you will not be able to silence them. Freedom is stronger than the divisive laws you make

The irony is her being called a '''Trojan Horse'' or ''a mannequin''at best by the president who claims to have stood up for the rights of the religious. Well, how the tables have turned, eh?

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Burqas and Hijabs are quite different - hijabs only cover the hairs but leave the face visible. Burqas cover everything. I'm all fine with people (including teenagers) wearing hijabs if they want to. I'm uncomfortable with burqas which seem excessive to me, but as you said I do believe a ban is the wrong way to address the issue and will cause more harm than good.

Right. I apologise for my mistaken terminology.

My opinion about hijabs is the same as that which I have expressed for burqas.

[Punished UMN]

Harmful being the key word. There's nothing harmful about the practices mentioned.

I do consider burqas to be symptomatic of the problematic sexism inherent in Islam.

That being said, I agree that prohibiting children from wearing it is not a good idea. First, it’s rarely effective to just stamp down on symbols of a problematic idea, and second, as many people have already pointed out a burqa ban is probably going to lead to even more gender discrimination as conservative practitioners hold their daughters back from public life.

Hijab and burqa are different garbs, the burqa covers the entire body including the face and eyes, and is widely associated with only extremist sects of Islam. Mainstream Islam generally supports the Hijab, which only covers the hair and sometimes the neck, but in many countries there's no law requiring it, and some Islamic countries even persecute women for wearing it (I already mentioned Turkey, where women who wear hijab are not allowed to get a higher education due to hundred-year-old laws).

[Koralo]

French is actually NOT an ethnicity. That's one of the main characteristics of the French Republic, and actually, it even somewhat predates it. During the First Republic was considered a French Citizen everyone... born in France, or working in France, or taking care of a French child, or taking care of French elderly. That's how low the bar was. France since the Revolution (and even before) has never defined itself by ethnic or racial criteria.

I'm sorry but that's just some bullshit propaganda. After the revolution other ethnicities that lived under French rule first did not get a choice in joining the French Republic, after which they were forcefully assimilated by outlawing their language, redistributing their lands, and abolishing their cultural practices. For those who weren't ethnically French, the Revolution was merely a bloodbath. Sure they got "equal rights" as citizens -not even, in actuality- but that was as long as they assimilated into a culture that was definitely tied to an ethnicity, and definitely not theirs. So that argument is a bit easy I reckon.

About the matter at hand, I don't really have an opinion. It's an interesting debate to hear from all sides though. And I agree with you it's probably just a political scapegoat.

[Zurkir]

Sympathy mongering among Muslims and Muslim nations isn’t exactly an unknown. The whole “the united western world is out to get and nuke us all” (even though we’re spreading from the Middle East into western countries) hasn’t exactly been unheard of.

Then it won't be hard for the poster in question to provide evidence of the specific views they claim are widespread.

Well, here’s something by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, regarding “the hypersensitivity of Muslims” which is relatable.

This mentions Muslims who ally themselves with left wing politics and adapt a victimhood mentality. Victimhood is east to exploit. This actually plays back to an earlier post regarding Islam and Marxism. Identity politics is Marxist in origin and a growing minority playing victimhood is identity politics.

”Muslims have mastered the art of playing victim”

”Islam plays victim”

[Kowani]

Identity politics is Marxist in origin

no it's fucking not lmao
"identity politics" predates marxism by milennia

[Zurkir]

Identity politics is Marxist in origin

no it's fucking not lmao
"identity politics" predates marxism by milennia

Oh God, college Marxist triggered.

Origin dispute aside, identity politics and Marxism are intertwined.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Hopefully, nobody dies in response to this.

[Kowani]

no it's fucking not lmao
"identity politics" predates marxism by milennia

Oh God, college Marxist triggered.

...what

Origin dispute aside, identity politics and Marxism are intertwined.

in the sense that all politics are identity politics, sure?

[Page]

I would implement a policy in which public school staff are absolutely forbidden from discussing with parents whether the students are wearing a hijab or not, that way, a student can wear or not wear one as they please with no fear.

As for the burkini ban, that's total fucking bullshit. If I as a white guy went to France and got in a public swimming pool wearing a wet suit, people might think "that's kinda weird" but no one would say shit. A burkini is no different than a wet suit wore for functional reasons so it's bigoted bullshit to ban it.

[Nakena]

I would implement a policy in which public school staff are absolutely forbidden from discussing with parents whether the students are wearing a hijab or not, that way, a student can wear or not wear one as they please with no fear.

In the age of smartphone the parents may still find out if someone doesnt wears hijab or not.

[Zurkir]

I would implement a policy in which public school staff are absolutely forbidden from discussing with parents whether the students are wearing a hijab or not, that way, a student can wear or not wear one as they please with no fear.

That is not at all realistically feasible.

[DBJ]

Sounds reasonable. Forcing kids to wear the hijab is bad. Sure, in a perfect world girls would decide for themselves, but that's not the world we live in. Most girls have no choice.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

That's just genocide, Therm.

No it’s not. I’m not killing anyone. Just forced assimilation. Cultural genocide maybe but not a genocide of a people. The people would still exist but their children would be considered French and not Breton

In order to do that you’d literally have to kill people, and a lot of people at that which would be genocide and ethnic cleansing, and that would be incredibly no bueno.

[Insaanistan]

Sounds reasonable. Forcing kids to wear the hijab is bad. Sure, in a perfect world girls would decide for themselves, but that's not the world we live in. Most girls have no choice.

Nah, most girls choose to wear it.

[Insaanistan]

Then it won't be hard for the poster in question to provide evidence of the specific views they claim are widespread.

Well, here’s something by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, regarding “the hypersensitivity of Muslims” which is relatable.

This mentions Muslims who ally themselves with left wing politics and adapt a victimhood mentality. Victimhood is east to exploit. This actually plays back to an earlier post regarding Islam and Marxism. Identity politics is Marxist in origin and a growing minority playing victimhood is identity politics.

”Muslims have mastered the art of playing victim”

”Islam plays victim”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a random woman who makes outlandish claims about Islam. She grew up in a sexist anti-Semitic home and basically decided, “Yeah, this is Islam’s fault.”
The woman seems to know virtually nothing real about the religion.

[Zurkir]

Well, here’s something by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, regarding “the hypersensitivity of Muslims” which is relatable.

This mentions Muslims who ally themselves with left wing politics and adapt a victimhood mentality. Victimhood is east to exploit. This actually plays back to an earlier post regarding Islam and Marxism. Identity politics is Marxist in origin and a growing minority playing victimhood is identity politics.

”Muslims have mastered the art of playing victim”

”Islam plays victim”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a random woman who makes outlandish claims about Islam. She grew up in a sexist anti-Semitic home and basically decided, “Yeah, this is Islam’s fault.”
The woman seems to know virtually nothing real about the religion.

You think so?

[Insaanistan]

I'm not even saying that. I'm saying that vague "people think this" posts do actually need backing up.

Sympathy mongering among Muslims and Muslim nations isn’t exactly an unknown. The whole “the united western world is out to get and nuke us all” (even though we’re spreading from the Middle East into western countries) hasn’t exactly been unheard of.

Because immigrating to a better country is the same as a legacy of Western powers invading a screwing up the Middle East, South and Central Asia, and Africa.

[Insaanistan]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a random woman who makes outlandish claims about Islam. She grew up in a sexist anti-Semitic home and basically decided, “Yeah, this is Islam’s fault.”
The woman seems to know virtually nothing real about the religion.

You think so?

Yes. Anyone who appears on PragerU endorsed by them probably isn’t someone to trust on any matter.

[Zurkir]

Sympathy mongering among Muslims and Muslim nations isn’t exactly an unknown. The whole “the united western world is out to get and nuke us all” (even though we’re spreading from the Middle East into western countries) hasn’t exactly been unheard of.

Because immigrating to a better country is the same as a legacy of Western powers invading a screwing up the Middle East, South and Central Asia, and Africa.

Wait what?

So... immigrants coming from the Middle East and Africa to western countries - better countries as you just said - is the same as the centuries of European colonialism?

[Insaanistan]

Because immigrating to a better country is the same as a legacy of Western powers invading a screwing up the Middle East, South and Central Asia, and Africa.

Wait what?

So... immigrants coming from the Middle East and Africa to western countries - better countries as you just said - is the same as the centuries of European colonialism?

I’m trying to say it’s not.

Sorry, I realize tone can’t easily be picked up through online text.

Just to clarify: I was being sarcastic in that post.

[Zurkir]

Wait what?

So... immigrants coming from the Middle East and Africa to western countries - better countries as you just said - is the same as the centuries of European colonialism?

I’m trying to say it’s not.

Sorry, I realize tone can’t easily be picked up through online text.

Just to clarify: I was being sarcastic in that post.

I really hope so.

Just a tip maybe use the emoticons or put “sarcasm” in parentheses. It’s what I try to do to avoid causing misunderstanding.

[DBJ]

Sounds reasonable. Forcing kids to wear the hijab is bad. Sure, in a perfect world girls would decide for themselves, but that's not the world we live in. Most girls have no choice.

Nah, most girls choose to wear it.

Oh boy, right off the bat I know I'm not talking to a particularly smart perrson. The question is not if they are "choosing" to wear it, the question is if they could choose not to wear it. Obviously it's easy to indoctrinate kids to go along with their own oppression.