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France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What do You Think of This?

Laïcité in general should go
61
13%
France shouldn’t have done this, and it’s clear they’ve been targeting Muslims
159
34%
France shouldn’t have done this, but it’s other measures regarding Islam are valid
32
7%
French Muslims should fall in line and follow these rules
58
12%
Hijab is oppressive, why would anyone be against this?
60
13%
Hopefully this will help erode Islam in France
86
18%
Other
14
3%
 
Total votes : 470

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Insaanistan
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France Bans Hijabs for Under 18s

Postby Insaanistan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:02 am

Once again, we see France target Muslims in the name of Separatism.
You can no longer wear a hijab if you are under 18, cannot wear a burqini in public pools, and cannot accompany children on school trips if you are an adult who wears a hijab.

While they will not yet become law, they reflect the views of the body that will vote them into existence.

Can you all just imagine if Turkey forced all women to wear hijab until they were 18? Or if they banned crop tops and short shorts until they were 18?

France calls this secularism, but as it’s more and more apparent each day. Just a reminder, this is a country that allows kids of any age to drink alcohol at home, but it won’t let girls choose to wear hijab to school. Not ever Muslim girl wants to wear hijab. But I know many who have fought their parents because they want to wear the hijab but their parents don’t want them to.

Laïcité is meant to protect secularism. Instead, it’s strict government control of religion, mainly non-Catholic ones, and especially Islam.
When they banned schoolchildren from wearing religion symbols, they included Hijabs, Sikh turbans, and kippahs altogether, but only “big” crosses.

And you can’t pretend France isn’t completely fine with an all out assault on Islam. Right ing politician Marie Le Pen called for a complete ban on the hijab, and was told she was being too soft on Islam.
This isn’t about terrorism, this is about hatred for Muslims, which has long been part of French history, despite Muslims making up the majority of the Free French Army in World War II.
It is not Islam that is in a crisis. It is France.
Sources:
https://5pillarsuk.com/2021/04/02/frenc ... under-18s/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4Hvk27A0M
Last edited by Insaanistan on Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:08 am

So how does secularism translate to "need to protect people from seeing religion exists"?
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Postby J o J » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:11 am

Insaanistan wrote:Or if they banned crop tops and short shorts until they were 18?


I would support that. If women don't like being sexualized then they should not wear exposing clothing. People need to wear decent clothes and be civilized in general. Same for men too, no more of those jeans with holes the size of watermelons or shirts that are literally just tatters because they think they're cool. Nobody wants to see your body or underwear unless they're perverted.

A better thing to have said would have been "What if they banned wearing the Judenhut?"
Last edited by J o J on Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:17 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:14 am

Insaanistan wrote:You can no longer wear a hijab if you are under 18, cannot wear a burqini in public pools, and cannot accompany children on school trips if you are an adult who wears a hijab.

While they will not yet become law...

So why are you presenting them as if they have?
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Postby Insaanistan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:14 am

Vassenor wrote:So how does secularism translate to "need to protect people from seeing religion exists"?

French is a funny language.
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Postby Insaanistan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:17 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:You can no longer wear a hijab if you are under 18, cannot wear a burqini in public pools, and cannot accompany children on school trips if you are an adult who wears a hijab.

While they will not yet become law...

So why are you presenting them as if they have?

Because it’s like America: one body votes on whether they want it, then the other one votes to make it an official law. Additionally, as I stated in he second half of that sentence, the legislative body that will officially make it a law is known to be majority in favor of that decision.
Last edited by Insaanistan on Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Picairn » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:18 am

Okay this is egregious, but this hasn't become law yet, right? What are its chances?
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:19 am

Insaanistan wrote:Once again, we see France target Muslims in the name of Separatism.
You can no longer wear a hijab if you are under 18, cannot wear a burqini in public pools, and cannot accompany children on school trips if you are an adult who wears a hijab.

While they will not yet become law, they reflect the views of the body that will vote them into existence.

Can you all just imagine if Turkey forced all women to wear hijab until they were 18? Or if they banned crop tops and short shorts until they were 18?

France calls this secularism, but as it’s more and more apparent each day. Just a reminder, this is a country that allows kids of any age to drink alcohol at home, but it won’t let girls choose to wear hijab to school. Not ever Muslim girl wants to wear hijab. But I know many who have fought their parents because they want to wear the hijab but their parents don’t want them to.

Laïcité is meant to protect secularism. Instead, it’s strict government control of religion, mainly non-Catholic ones, and especially Islam.
When they banned schoolchildren from wearing religion symbols, they included Hijabs, Sikh turbans, and kippahs altogether, but only “big” crosses.

And you can’t pretend France isn’t completely fine with an all out assault on Islam. Right ing politician Marie Le Pen called for a complete ban on the hijab, and was told she was being too soft on Islam.
This isn’t about terrorism, this is about hatred for Muslims, which has long been part of French history, despite Muslims making up the majority of the Free French Army in World War II.
It is not Islam that is in a crisis. It is France.
Sources:
https://5pillarsuk.com/2021/04/02/frenc ... under-18s/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4Hvk27A0M

Absolutely disgusting. We'll get to a point where all religious people's houses are searched, and it will be 'not strict enough'.
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Postby Comfed » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:21 am

France: We love freedom of expression!

Also France: You can’t wear these religious clothes!

It’s not about freedom of expression, is it?
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Postby CoraSpia » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:22 am

Obvious discrimination under the grounds of 'think of the children' bullshit. Can someone send a few shipments of air freshener to France please because this stinks.
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:23 am

Comfed wrote:France: We love freedom of expression!

Also France: You can’t wear these religious clothes!

It’s not about freedom of expression, is it?

'We will give freedom of speech and remove extremism by banning religious clothes.' Nope. It certainly isn't.
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Postby Insaanistan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:24 am

Picairn wrote:Okay this is egregious, but this hasn't become law yet, right? What are its chances?

Incredibly high, as th body that will make it a law is already known to be majority in favor of it.
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:36 am

As I said in another thread, the Senate is mostly a club of 50+ rich white men. That they start saying to teenage colored girls what they should and shouldn't wear is oppressive, and doing that in the name of "laïcité" or "la République" is disgusting. But they do that for a single purpose: to move the public debate on questions of Islam and immigration, where the right feel they can attract votes, instead of questions of economics, healthcare, education, social welfare where their proposals are vastly rejected by voters.
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Postby Nakena » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:41 am

Kilobugya wrote:As I said in another thread, the Senate is mostly a club of 50+ rich white men. That they start saying to teenage colored girls what they should and shouldn't wear is oppressive, and doing that in the name of "laïcité" or "la République" is disgusting. But they do that for a single purpose: to move the public debate on questions of Islam and immigration, where the right feel they can attract votes, instead of questions of economics, healthcare, education, social welfare where their proposals are vastly rejected by voters.


Seems like certain american ideas are starting to gain a hold in france, too.
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Postby Insaanistan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:45 am

Nakena wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:As I said in another thread, the Senate is mostly a club of 50+ rich white men. That they start saying to teenage colored girls what they should and shouldn't wear is oppressive, and doing that in the name of "laïcité" or "la République" is disgusting. But they do that for a single purpose: to move the public debate on questions of Islam and immigration, where the right feel they can attract votes, instead of questions of economics, healthcare, education, social welfare where their proposals are vastly rejected by voters.


Seems like certain american ideas are starting to gain a hold in france, too.

To the Quotes thread!
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Postby Cereskia » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:47 am

Booooooy, the world is going nuts with muslims, i don't really hate the french policy as an Indonesian muslim, but it's really just stupid.

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Postby New Antarcticania » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:49 am

France is going to be Xinjiang autonomous region 2: electric boogaloo
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Postby Nakena » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:53 am

This isn't really surprising. It's what happens when liberal society is at the end with it's mantra because the world doesnt rolls with it to its big surprise and then tries to impose liberalism by force. In the end it absolished itself. It's end stage liberalism.
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Postby New Antarcticania » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:54 am

Nakena wrote:This isn't really surprising. It's what happens when liberal society is at the end with it's mantra because the world doesnt rolls with it to its big surprise and then tries to impose liberalism by force. In the end it absolished itself. It's end stage liberalism.

When the goverment gives you something, you really, really have to think what can the goverment take from you.
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Postby Risottia » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:55 am

Insaanistan wrote: Just a reminder, this is a country that allows kids of any age to drink alcohol at home, but it won’t let girls choose to wear hijab to school.

Because "at school" and "at home" are absolutely the same thing.
Also, OMG THEY DRINK ALCOHOL, boo fucking hoo. :roll:
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Postby Nakena » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:58 am

Risottia wrote:
Insaanistan wrote: Just a reminder, this is a country that allows kids of any age to drink alcohol at home, but it won’t let girls choose to wear hijab to school.

Because "at school" and "at home" are absolutely the same thing.
Also, OMG THEY DRINK ALCOHOL, boo fucking hoo. :roll:


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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:04 am

Risottia wrote:
Insaanistan wrote: Just a reminder, this is a country that allows kids of any age to drink alcohol at home, but it won’t let girls choose to wear hijab to school.

Because "at school" and "at home" are absolutely the same thing.


It's not like the state has much ability to control what happens at home - even things which are banned "at home", such as corporal punishments, are basically not enforced, unless it's really extreme cases, because there is no just way for the state to even know about it. A law banning minors to drink alcohol at home just be a purely symbolic thing that wouldn't change anything to reality.
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Postby Vorausen » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:14 am

Well I can see why they would create such a law. Depending on why they are wearing it and if you look at a case by case basis, I think this is fine in some cases. This is very similar to the whole idea of whether children should fully identify as transgender and take transgender procedures. Absolutely not. The human brain determine decision making does not develop fully until your early 20’s, and your brain entirely does not develop until your late 20’s. Now I’m not saying children can’t make decisions, but choosing your religion is a huge choice.

Now don’t get the wrong idea here, I’m perfectly fine with my classmates wearing hijabs, that’s their choice. However, I know there are plenty of people out there who don’t understand that Muslims are perfectly fine people and they are not just terrorists. So many people would feel uncomfortable around classmates wearing hijabs. So instead of banning hijabs, why not teach extensively about all religions, and how they all have merit in some way?

This however is not what I believe should happen. Public school (or heck school in general) should encourage and inspire you to learn outside of it. I shouldn’t learn every single thing at school, I should instead develop the skills of knowing how to research so I could learn more about others, different cultures, and different things.

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Postby Adamede » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:14 am

Never been a fan of this form of secularism. It’s a piece of cloth for Gods sake.

J o J wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:Or if they banned crop tops and short shorts until they were 18?


I would support that. If women don't like being sexualized then they should not wear exposing clothing. People need to wear decent clothes and be civilized in general. Same for men too, no more of those jeans with holes the size of watermelons or shirts that are literally just tatters because they think they're cool. Nobody wants to see your body or underwear unless they're perverted.

A better thing to have said would have been "What if they banned wearing the Judenhut?"

That’s the most snowflake thing I’ve ever heard.
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Postby Vorausen » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:21 am

J o J wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:Or if they banned crop tops and short shorts until they were 18?


I would support that. If women don't like being sexualized then they should not wear exposing clothing. People need to wear decent clothes and be civilized in general. Same for men too, no more of those jeans with holes the size of watermelons or shirts that are literally just tatters because they think they're cool. Nobody wants to see your body or underwear unless they're perverted.

A better thing to have said would have been "What if they banned wearing the Judenhut?"



Let me get this straight what you want and what the government should do are two different things. The Government should not enforce ethics and morals, but rather enforce common law. It is up to us to decide whether we will be moral or not. Whether or not someone is sexualized is up to the individual person.

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