You Have Been Removed From The Group

[Infected Mushroom]

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are an employee at Basic Psych. Basic Psych employs thousands of mental health therapists who operate across several dozen walk-in therapy centers scattered across the globe.

Unless you are and old, established player... Basic Psych’s central command regularly moves you between the various centers depending on the needs of the company. At every center, the Centre Manager attempts to cultivate unconditional loyalty to the company and to the CEO.

During your first three weeks at Basic Psych, you are massively overworked and the management regularly (and without much warning) re-locates you from center to center.

Every time you join a center (however briefly), you are required to join the Chat Group on WhatsApp for that center (where the team can exchange pleasantries within the confines of organizational correctness and receive commands, updates and orders from the CM).

Every time you are assigned to a new center, the CM (who is the chat admin) will unceremoniously remove you from the group chat so that when you check again it says “you have been removed from the group.”

There is no customary waiting period for you to remove yourself, as soon as the order comes down that you will be re-deployed (and often hours before because the CM often gets the word before you even do), you are removed.

Now the discussion is this... is this a “rude practice” or is it within the lines of civility? As an employee, how would you personally feel? Why?

Your options:

1. It is rude practice. I take a high level of offense (at least for the first few times)
2. It is rude practice I take a medium level of offense (at least for the first few times)
3. It is rude practice. I take a low level of offense (at least for the first few times)
4. It is rude practice. I am not offended at all.
5. It falls within lines of civility. However, I take a medium level of offense (at least for the first few times)
6. It falls within lines of civility. However, I take a low level of offense (at least for the first few times)
7. It falls within lines of civility. I am not offended at all.

I’d go with option 3. I think there should be a practice where a few hours is allowed for the person to leave by themselves. I take a bit of offense at checking my phone and suddenly seeing “you are removed from the group” but it’s something I can get used to and for which I’d only take a bit of offense.

[The Free Joy State]

Is Basic Psych a place where psychologists are employed, or is it a place where extremely mentally unwell people -- possibly with sociopathic tendencies -- torment each other for sport?

All the descriptions of the this workplace -- especially the workplace bullying -- are extremely concerning.

Firstly, yes, removing someone from a chat when they have merely joined, and have not broken any rules (especially when they have to be there), is a rude practise. When it is being done in a workplace, it actually comes across as workplace bullying (someone using their power to silence someone they don't like, and make it impossible to function at work by making it impossible to hear instructions).

I would say I would report the person to a supervisor, but considering this is Basic Psych (and IM Land) they probably are the supervisor, and are -- for the purposes of this scenario -- explicitly not breaking any rules. In fact, Basic Psych probably considers office bullying "character building".

So, I would look for a job with a less toxic work environment.

[Senkaku]

Joke’s on them, I would never turn on notifications for a work groupchat

[The Alma Mater]

I would point out to senior management that only idiots use Whatsapp to share confidential company information, like instructions from your supervisor, and formally recommend my supervisors to be admitted as patients for that reason.

[Heloin]

Imagine having notifications turned on.

Joke’s on them, I would never turn on notifications for a work groupchat

Note to self. Read the other comments to make sure someone hasn’t already made the exact same joke.

[Tsaivao]

I mean, this really isn't a fair scenario at all. All the buildup to the actual question was far more rude and concerning and offensive of a scenario than the actual problem presented in the question itself. I think being kicked out of the groupchat is probably the least of the concerns I'd have working in this environment, so I think that would skew my answer.

If I really needed to keep in contact with people though I'd just invite them to an unofficial discord and hammer it out

[Neanderthaland]

I'm clearly a masochist, if I'm working at this company, so I probably like it.

[Kilobugya]

I object using anything from Facebook and would never join a Whatsapp group anyway. Next question.

[Chan Island]

Create an unofficial Discord where I put the people from each group I think are worth the time of day.

Otherwise, try to leave and find a different job from this hellish experience with no stability, no rest and yet still expected total loyalty. Oh, and at least once try to slip in a good bye into one of these groups before I'm kicked out.

[Thermodolia]

Fuck that I’m reporting them to the labor department and to the health department and to the local psychologist ethics board.

Playing where’s the therapist is highly unethical and harms the patient. As when it comes to therapy you need to build a connection with the patient and that can take a long time

[The Free Joy State]

Fuck that I’m reporting them to the labor department and to the health department and to the local psychologist ethics board.

Playing where’s the therapist is highly unethical and harms the patient. As when it comes to therapy you need to build a connection with the patient and that can take a long time

I mean, really Basic Psych should have been shut down years ago for endangering the well-being their patients and their therapists. If the BPS had anything to do with it, their management would have been struck off.

That's why, with anything to do with Basic Psych, the best answer is always to quit. Your patients will be lining up to go with you, so they can have some much needed continuity of care.

[Infected Mushroom]

Joke’s on them, I would never turn on notifications for a work groupchat

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

[The Free Joy State]

Joke’s on them, I would never turn on notifications for a work groupchat

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

If it's an important groupchat -- where there may be important updates -- then being able to be part of the group is vital and what the centre managers/chat admin is doing is unforgiveable -- it is an attempt to make you unable to do your job, which makes the position untenable.

You might have a good claim, in the real world, for constructive dismissal (should you later leave, due to how they made it impossible to do your job and miserable to even try).

EDIT: If it's not for the dissemination of serious, important points that may impact your employment (as you say this is), then there's no need to even join it.

[Thermodolia]

Joke’s on them, I would never turn on notifications for a work groupchat

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

My time is my time. I will not answer any office calls on my day off. Fuck that

[The Free Joy State]

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

My time is my time. I will not answer any office calls on my day off. Fuck that

I thought this was on your working days? Which, still seems like excessively micro-managing -- and, I'm not sure why any therapy centre wants people in a groupchat, rather than giving their attention to their patients...

If you have to check-in on your day off... no bloody way. Days off are my time.

[Kowani]

this is aggressively dumb

[Zurkir]

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

My time is my time. I will not answer any office calls on my day off. Fuck that

I’ve actually had a boss before who’s attitude was “work sustains your life, therefore your life is work/the company”. (As in my job paid my bills so my soul was the companies’ and off days were mere technicalities.) I didn’t work there long.

[Chan Island]

Fuck that I’m reporting them to the labor department and to the health department and to the local psychologist ethics board.

Playing where’s the therapist is highly unethical and harms the patient. As when it comes to therapy you need to build a connection with the patient and that can take a long time

I mean, really Basic Psych should have been shut down years ago for endangering the well-being their patients and their therapists. If the BPS had anything to do with it, their management would have been struck off.

That's why, with anything to do with Basic Psych, the best answer is always to quit. Your patients will be lining up to go with you, so they can have some much needed continuity of care.

I mean, it is possible that we aren't a mental health therapist but some kind of support staff, for whom moving around isn't so unusual. Data entry, accounting, mentor....

But even then, what IM is describing is an abusive flanderisation of that treatment. How are we supposed to do our work properly if we get relocated with an hour's notice? How are we supposed to do our job if we randomly find ourselves removed from the work Whatsapp group hours before they even tell us we're moving?

And how far are we even moving? I presume this could only be tenable if we were moving between a couple of sites in the same city. Because if we are moving to different towns, then the same answer to all of these Basic Psych hypothetical 1000% applies- quit. You always quit. And presumably also file a lawsuit.

It isn't even that usual to have to get off your duff and suddenly start moving with no notice in many careers. Fire brigade, police, army, pest control and those kinds of jobs however don't move around centre to centre all the time at barely any notice, they move to places with some shit going down, resolve it, then come back to the same spot.

[Adamede]

Sounds like a dumb way to run a company t keep its own employees in the dark about where the hell they’re going to be working.

[Infected Mushroom]

Sounds like a dumb way to run a company t keep its own employees in the dark about where the hell they’re going to be working.

have you ever heard of the phrase exploitation of labour?

[The Free Joy State]

Sounds like a dumb way to run a company t keep its own employees in the dark about where the hell they’re going to be working.

have you ever heard of the phrase exploitation of labour?

That Basic Psych is apparently built on creating an imbalance of power between management and new hires doesn't make moving employees around arbitrarily -- especially to the potential cost of their clients -- a smarter way to work.

In fact, few managers set up systems purely to go "ha-ha, I have all the power; live with it, suckers" (although such systems can appear over time, and that can be a side-effect) -- especially if such systems are more costly, inefficient, cause high employee turnover (which this would), low client retention (which this definitely would), lost work hours (which having to travel to another centre would) -- unless they are really, really incompetent at their job.

[Kannap]

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are an employee at Basic Psych. Basic Psych employs thousands of mental health therapists who operate across several dozen walk-in therapy centers scattered across the globe.

Unless you are and old, established player... Basic Psych’s central command regularly moves you between the various centers depending on the needs of the company. At every center, the Centre Manager attempts to cultivate unconditional loyalty to the company and to the CEO.

During your first three weeks at Basic Psych, you are massively overworked and the management regularly (and without much warning) re-locates you from center to center

There are "several dozen" centers globally. There's no possible way I can move from one to the other if it requires actually moving, it's just logistically impossible to move that many times over distances in that short a period - three weeks. Like, the way you've described it makes it sound like I'm working in New York one day, then halfway through the week they've relocated me to Chicago, then next week I'm relocated to Orlando, then next week I'm relocated to London. It's not doable.

Every time you join a center (however briefly), you are required to join the Chat Group on WhatsApp for that center (where the team can exchange pleasantries within the confines of organizational correctness and receive commands, updates and orders from the CM).

Every time you are assigned to a new center, the CM (who is the chat admin) will unceremoniously remove you from the group chat so that when you check again it says “you have been removed from the group.”

There is no customary waiting period for you to remove yourself, as soon as the order comes down that you will be re-deployed (and often hours before because the CM often gets the word before you even do), you are removed.

Now the discussion is this... is this a “rude practice” or is it within the lines of civility? As an employee, how would you personally feel? Why?

Your options:

1. It is rude practice. I take a high level of offense (at least for the first few times)
2. It is rude practice I take a medium level of offense (at least for the first few times)
3. It is rude practice. I take a low level of offense (at least for the first few times)
4. It is rude practice. I am not offended at all.
5. It falls within lines of civility. However, I take a medium level of offense (at least for the first few times)
6. It falls within lines of civility. However, I take a low level of offense (at least for the first few times)
7. It falls within lines of civility. I am not offended at all.

I’d go with option 3. I think there should be a practice where a few hours is allowed for the person to leave by themselves. I take a bit of offense at checking my phone and suddenly seeing “you are removed from the group” but it’s something I can get used to and for which I’d only take a bit of offense.

I work in a state where employment can be terminated by the employer (or the employee) without any prior notice. I've grown used to having as little possessions at work as possible so that if I ever get fired/quit and have to leave, I only have a couple things to grab and I'm out the door a couple minutes later. I've heard all the horror stories of people who's coworkers were fired and told to clean their desks and people slowly clearing their desk of all their stuff - taking upwards of an hour - crying while the security guard and their manager stands there and all their coworkers have to watch. That'll never be me, if I ever have a desk job I'll have my cell phone to grab, probably a bag I carry, and at most a picture frame or a small plant from the desk and I'm out the door.

So, this falls into 7 territory. It's fully expected that when you are no longer employed at a particular place, you're not longer welcome there - whether you get fired, quit, or retire - on good or bad terms. We had a guy in my department retire two years ago - left the company on good terms - and another got fired last year, leaving the company on bad terms. Neither are allowed past security at the front desk because, regardless of their past relationship with the company, neither are presently permitted in the building. So being removed from the group chat by your manager and not having the option to linger around is perfectly within this same idea that you're no longer part of this center, so you're not authorized to be in this group chat.

Fully understandable, no offense taken.

But that, of course, is assuming I don't quit long before it reaches that point. This sounds like a hostile work environment of Biblical proportions.

[Kannap]

Joke’s on them, I would never turn on notifications for a work groupchat

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

Group chat is the least effective way to do that.

[Infected Mushroom]

I mean, it is a work groupchat

The idea is to be reachable etc say for example the boss wants a meeting suddenly or gives you work updates mid day so forth

Group chat is the least effective way to do that.

How so?

[Kannap]

Group chat is the least effective way to do that.

How so?

Group chats are noisy and annoying and as many people have already mentioned, and I agree, they get muted because of that. If a manager wants their employees to be reachable, there are more effective and better ways to do so than forces their employees to use a system they'll mute/ignore. For example, my manager has everybody in my department's phone number. If he needs to reach anybody, he can call or text them. It's more effective because I don't have his number blocked like I'd have a group chat muted, so I'd receive communication from him. No to mention the benefits of a more personal feeling form of communication.

As for work updates mid-day, most employers don't want their employees on their phones during work/during the day and would rather their employees actually be working. There are dozens of forms of workplace communication that many workplaces use and have used for a long time - you have probably encountered a number of these in your own work life - that are far more effective than a group chat.