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Trial of Derek Chauvin: A Juror Supported What?!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is Derek Chauvin Guilty?

Yes, he was completely responsible.
591
62%
I don’t know. I need more information first.
78
8%
No, Floyd had a heart attack.
71
7%
No, Floyd had a drug overdose.
178
19%
Other
35
4%
 
Total votes : 953

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:39 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What a terrible way to feel.

He was convicted of multiple counts of drug possession, theft, trespassing and aggravated robbery. The man wasn't a hero or even a good person. How he died doesn't change the way he lived. I don't see how recognizing the facts is a terrible way to feel.

How he lived also doesn't change the way he died. Being choked to death in the street is a horrible thing to happen to anyone, regardless of the crimes they might have committed in the past.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:40 am

Window Land wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Was the prosecution allowed to reenter the murder 3 charge?

Yes- a change in precedent meant the judge allowed them to reinstate the charge.

Good, I remember when it happened I thought that was the appropriate charge.
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The Jamesian Republic
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Postby The Jamesian Republic » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:41 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Why do you say that?

America aint exactly been the most stable place the last few years. I fully expect someone to try and cause shit regardless of what happens. Could be wrong though.


True. Unfortunately that is true. So true to the point to where I sometimes don’t realize that. Though yet again you want to have faith in things like government, law etc. However I still believe that there will be justice somehow. After all one has to believe in something otherwise what’s the point of existence?
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:41 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
Kannap wrote:
He committed murder, he should be found guilty of murder. Police officers usually don't get held accountable for murder like this so I'm expecting he'll be found innocent or only found guilty of the manslaughter charge and innocent on both murder charges.

Derek Chauvin committed a crime I'm not going to argue that, but what he's guilty of isn't for you or I to decide. My concern isn't what he's sentenced with, only the fairness of the trial. Even the worst monsters in history deserve a fair and honest trial but given the publicity of the crime it's not hard to believe that Chauvin will be convicted of the harshest possible sentence even if evidence surfaced to acquit or lessen the sentence.

I'm concerned that people are out for blood and it will affect the trial. Do you think I'm wrong in that assumption?


And all the other deaths of people of color by the hand of police brutality - all the other names we've remembered and said over the years - have forced hundreds of police officers to be found guilty as a result of people out for blood? No, it hasn't, so I'm not holding my breath on this trial. We've seen lots of officers let off for this same thing, I'm not coming into this trial with any assumption that it'll be different.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:42 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:America aint exactly been the most stable place the last few years. I fully expect someone to try and cause shit regardless of what happens. Could be wrong though.

The NYPD went on strike after one of their officers got away with choking Eric Garner to death. Officer Daniel Pantaleo wasn't even indicted and they still felt so attacked by the city government that they engaged in a go-slow, abandoning their pro-active policing. Which incidentally reduced crime in the city. So even if Chauvin is acquitted, the MPD might try to retaliate against the city.

Cops didn't go on strike in nyc over Gardner
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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:43 am

Kannap wrote:
Jarvikan wrote:
After reading some sources (Not the BBC)I will admit I am wrong about the pregnant woman,but he was in jail for some time for both theft and cocaine


Both entirely separate events from the incident that occurred last year and neither justification for his murder.


The real question is whether he had put that side of his life behind him or whether he was still a criminal. Either way I agree that it isn't justification for summary execution.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alien Overlord
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Postby Alien Overlord » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:50 am

Ifreann wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:He was convicted of multiple counts of drug possession, theft, trespassing and aggravated robbery. The man wasn't a hero or even a good person. How he died doesn't change the way he lived. I don't see how recognizing the facts is a terrible way to feel.

How he lived also doesn't change the way he died. Being choked to death in the street is a horrible thing to happen to anyone, regardless of the crimes they might have committed in the past.

I don't disagree that being choked to death on the street is horrible. That doesn't change what he did when he was alive. I think that Mr. Chauvin should be held accountable in a fair trial definitely. That still doesn't change my perspective on George Floyd as a person, as even bad men deserve justice.
Walkerfort wrote:so...




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Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:51 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Both entirely separate events from the incident that occurred last year and neither justification for his murder.


The real question is whether he had put that side of his life behind him or whether he was still a criminal. Either way I agree that it isn't justification for summary execution.


that question is irrelevant, even if he were a criminal he shouldn't have been murdered - after being apprehended - on the street. This trial isn't about whether George Floyd was guilty of anything, this trial is about whether Derek Chauvin is guilty or not.
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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
Ifreann wrote:How he lived also doesn't change the way he died. Being choked to death in the street is a horrible thing to happen to anyone, regardless of the crimes they might have committed in the past.

I don't disagree that being choked to death on the street is horrible. That doesn't change what he did when he was alive. I think that Mr. Chauvin should be held accountable in a fair trial definitely. That still doesn't change my perspective on George Floyd as a person, as even bad men deserve justice.

Your views are the literal equivalent of Inspector Javert in Les Miserables right now.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:54 am

Kannap wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:
The real question is whether he had put that side of his life behind him or whether he was still a criminal. Either way I agree that it isn't justification for summary execution.


that question is irrelevant, even if he were a criminal he shouldn't have been murdered - after being apprehended - on the street. This trial isn't about whether George Floyd was guilty of anything, this trial is about whether Derek Chauvin is guilty or not.


^this.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:54 am

Alien Overlord wrote:
Ifreann wrote:How he lived also doesn't change the way he died. Being choked to death in the street is a horrible thing to happen to anyone, regardless of the crimes they might have committed in the past.

I don't disagree that being choked to death on the street is horrible. That doesn't change what he did when he was alive. I think that Mr. Chauvin should be held accountable in a fair trial definitely. That still doesn't change my perspective on George Floyd as a person, as even bad men deserve justice.

You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.
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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:58 am

Ifreann wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:I don't disagree that being choked to death on the street is horrible. That doesn't change what he did when he was alive. I think that Mr. Chauvin should be held accountable in a fair trial definitely. That still doesn't change my perspective on George Floyd as a person, as even bad men deserve justice.

You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.

Isn't that the issue within the issue? I feel a not insignificant percentage of the population would think criminals get what they deserve.
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Alien Overlord
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Alien Overlord » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:58 am

Kannap wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:Derek Chauvin committed a crime I'm not going to argue that, but what he's guilty of isn't for you or I to decide. My concern isn't what he's sentenced with, only the fairness of the trial. Even the worst monsters in history deserve a fair and honest trial but given the publicity of the crime it's not hard to believe that Chauvin will be convicted of the harshest possible sentence even if evidence surfaced to acquit or lessen the sentence.

I'm concerned that people are out for blood and it will affect the trial. Do you think I'm wrong in that assumption?


And all the other deaths of people of color by the hand of police brutality - all the other names we've remembered and said over the years - have forced hundreds of police officers to be found guilty as a result of people out for blood? No, it hasn't, so I'm not holding my breath on this trial. We've seen lots of officers let off for this same thing, I'm not coming into this trial with any assumption that it'll be different.

I'm not concerned with the trials of the past, I'm concerned with right now and this current trial. That same sort of attitude you have is shared by plenty of other people who are willing to take it a step further-they want nothing more than to turn this trial into a crusade and quite frankly that's abhorrent regardless of the crime. You don't have to like Derek Chauvin-I don't. But I would at least hope you'd agree that he deserves a fair trial and a fair trial is unlikely to happen.

As I'm sure you know the penalty for murder is death or life imprisonment. We typically reserve this for intentional and premediated murders. Regardless of the circumstances a lot of people are going to demand this penalty be given, even if the facts point to something like manslaughter.
Walkerfort wrote:so...




Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships


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Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:59 am

Insaanistan wrote:Your views are the literal equivalent of Inspector Javert in Les Miserables right now.


I hope for Alien Overlord's sake they'll realize how wrong are those views earlier than Javert, seeing how things ended for him...
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:01 am

Diarcesia wrote:Isn't that the issue within the issue? I feel a not insignificant percentage of the population would think criminals get what they deserve.

Extrajudicial murder is not justice, especially when Floyd's crime at the time was... giving a counterfeit bill. Definitely a cruel punishment disproportionate to the crime.
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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:02 am

Alien Overlord wrote:As I'm sure you know the penalty for murder is death or life imprisonment.


I for once oppose death penalty or life imprisonment for everyone and that includes Derek Chauvin. I don't believe in vengeance or in going for blood. And I believe everyone can redeem themselves. But Derek Chauvin did commit a terrible crime, and must be found guilty of it. Not because he deserves to suffer, but because police brutality, fueled by impunity as it is, has to be put to a stop (of course, I know it won't be enough).
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Mestovakia
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Postby Mestovakia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:03 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:Your views are the literal equivalent of Inspector Javert in Les Miserables right now.


I hope for Alien Overlord's sake they'll realize how wrong are those views earlier than Javert, seeing how things ended for him...


Javert survived in the anime, though.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:03 am

Diarcesia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.

Isn't that the issue within the issue? I feel a not insignificant percentage of the population would think criminals get what they deserve.

Even if we accept that some people deserve to die for their crimes, no one deserves to be choked to death in the street on suspicion of passing a fake twenty. Even the people who think that Chauvin did nothing wrong agree with this, which we can tell by how they feel the need to play the whole "He was no angel" game with Floyd, or pretend that actually he coincidentally died of an overdose while under Chauvin's knee. They wouldn't be making these kinds of excuses if they believed that Floyd had it coming.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:04 am

Saying it was a heart attack or a drug overdose and Chauvin didn't kill him is like pushing someone off a building and saying they died of hemorrhaging and blunt trauma. Perhaps medically correct, but it's not like the attacker wasn't a factor.
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Silvedania
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Postby Silvedania » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:04 am

Mestovakia wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
I hope for Alien Overlord's sake they'll realize how wrong are those views earlier than Javert, seeing how things ended for him...


Javert survived in the anime, though.

Les Miz was an anime?
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Mestovakia
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Postby Mestovakia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:06 am

Silvedania wrote:
Mestovakia wrote:
Javert survived in the anime, though.

Les Miz was an anime?


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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:06 am

Silvedania wrote:
Mestovakia wrote:
Javert survived in the anime, though.

Les Miz was an anime?


I know there have been many adapations of Victor Hugo's novel - movies, series, musicals, ... I'm not aware of an anime, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:07 am

Insaanistan wrote:Your views are the literal equivalent of Inspector Javert in Les Miserables right now.

Indeed, extreme legalism is cruel and heartless tyranny.
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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:07 am

Mestovakia wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
I hope for Alien Overlord's sake they'll realize how wrong are those views earlier than Javert, seeing how things ended for him...


Javert survived in the anime, though.

The what?
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Alien Overlord
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Alien Overlord » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:08 am

Ifreann wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:I don't disagree that being choked to death on the street is horrible. That doesn't change what he did when he was alive. I think that Mr. Chauvin should be held accountable in a fair trial definitely. That still doesn't change my perspective on George Floyd as a person, as even bad men deserve justice.

You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.

The manner of someone's death doesn't change how they lived. I sympathize with victims of police brutality when they are innocent of crimes committed OR have sought to redeem themselves. George Floyd was neither of these things, hence why he doesn't have my sympathy. Did George Floyd help orphans in his spare time? Did he volunteer his time at animal or homeless shelters to help those in need? Did he do anything at all to make amends for his crime save for serving his prison sentences? The man was convicted and served his time so his rights should be respected yes, his killer should be put on trial but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad person nor does it mean he deserves sympathy.

When Robespierre tried to kill himself, he shot himself and failed. He was probably in agony for some time before his execution. He killed more than a few people in his reign of terror, but he died a painful death. Does he deserve sympathy? No. Stalin's purges killed hundreds of thousands and his policies killed millions, but he had a seizure and probably died slowly and humiliatingly. Does he deserve your sympathy for that? No. Past crimes aren't absolved by a unfair and/or violent death.
Walkerfort wrote:so...




Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships


butterfly effect when give a butterfly cocaine


Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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