Trial of Derek Chauvin: A Juror Supported What?!

[Diarcesia]

I wonder if Shapiro thinks Floyd deserves to be killed because in Shapiro's eyes, Floyd is a criminal.

Do you have any evidence to suggest he thinks that?

No. It's only the zeitgeist I feel the crowd he hangs out with and is comfortable with possesses. Pure speculation.

[Ethel mermania]

No it isnt. The right wing just doesn't understand how the left wing feels at all. Left wing types were just as upset when Robert Delgado was killed in Portland and he wasn't black. We were pissed when Daniel Shaver and Adam Toledo were killed too and they weren't black.

It's all just politics in the end. If the Left is doing something, the Right is naturally going to do the opposite in a bid to be the opposing party or coalition.

I am pretty right wing, I thought Chauvin deserved to be convicted.

I was also pleased a great deal of the evidence provided against Chauvin came from MPD. Can't say police protected a murderer because he was a cop here.

[Galloism]

It's all just politics in the end. If the Left is doing something, the Right is naturally going to do the opposite in a bid to be the opposing party or coalition.

I am pretty right wing, I thought Chauvin deserved to be convicted.

I was also pleased a great deal of the evidence provided against Chauvin came from MPD. Can't say police protected a murderer because he was a cop here.

Indeed. It was a good result.

It's not the end of the story, but it's a good first chapter. A New Hope one might say.

[Labbos]

Do you have any evidence to suggest he thinks that?

No. It's only the zeitgeist I feel the crowd he hangs out with and is comfortable with possesses. Pure speculation.

But we shouldn't make such extreme suggestions without good evidence. Would you be happy if someone made such an extreme suggestion about you based on only a feeling?

[Diarcesia]

No. It's only the zeitgeist I feel the crowd he hangs out with and is comfortable with possesses. Pure speculation.

But we shouldn't make such extreme suggestions without good evidence. Would you be happy if someone made such an extreme suggestion about you based on only a feeling?

That's fair. I'm only sharing my opinion and not preaching it like it's a fact.

[Kowani]

lmaooooooooooo

The defense witness Dr. David Fowler's work on in-custody death reports as Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland is going to be be re-examined

The Maryland’s Attorney General’s Office said Friday it believes there should be a review of “in custody” death reports produced by the state’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner during the tenure of Dr. David Fowler, nine days after Fowler testified that an ex-Minneapolis police officer was not responsible for the death of George Floyd in police custody.

The announcement came less than 24 hours after the attorney general’s office received a letter from the former medical examiner of Washington, D.C., Roger A. Mitchell, signed by 431 doctors from around the country, saying Fowler’s testimony and conclusions were so far outside the bounds of accepted forensic practice that all his previous work could come into question. “Dr. Fowler’s stated opinion that George Floyd’s death during active police restraint should be certified with an ‘undetermined’ manner is outside the standard practice and conventions for investigating and certification of in-custody deaths. This stated opinion raises significant concerns for his previous practice and management,” the letter said.

Attorney General Brian Frosh’s office said Friday afternoon that it agreed for the need to review Fowler’s work, and said it had been in contact with Gov. Larry Hogan’s staff.

“We agree that it is appropriate for independent experts to review reports issued by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) regarding deaths in custody,” Raquel Coombs, a spokeswoman for Frosh, said in an statement to The Baltimore Sun. “We are already in conversations with the Governor’s Office about the need for such a review, and have offered to coordinate it.”

Fowler testified that Floyd died of a sudden heart rhythm problem due to his heart disease while being restrained by police, contradicting several experts who said Floyd died due to a lack of oxygen. Former officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of murder and manslaughter for kneeling on Floyd’s neck.

Reached by phone Friday afternoon, Fowler said he was not aware of any such consideration of a review. But he defended his office’s work, noting that he was not solely responsible for autopsy conclusions.

“There’s a large team of forensic pathologists, with layers of supervision, and those medical examiners always did tremendous work,” Fowler said.

“People need to do what they need to do,” he said of a potential review.

Bruce Goldfarb, a spokesman for the chief medical examiner’s office, said the agency is “committed to transparency and will cooperate fully with an inquiry.”

Coombs said the review of death determinations will not involve any state officials or staff connected to a lawsuit filed by the family of Anton Black, a 19-year-old who died in police custody in the the Eastern Shore town of Greensboro.

Black’s 2018 death was captured on video, with Greensboro police holding the unarmed teenager down for more than six minutes. Fowler ruled that Black died because of a sudden cardiac event while struggling with police, and not because they pinned him in a prone position.

Testifying in the Floyd case, Fowler said that police, who held Floyd down in a prone position for more than nine minutes, did not cause Floyd’s death. His testimony was rebutted by a string of prosecution medical experts.

Fowler declined to discuss his testimony in the Chauvin trial.

The attorney general’s office is defending the state in the lawsuit brought by Black’s family against Fowler, the state and others. They have asked for the Black case to be thrown out.

“We have taken steps to wall off those in our office who are representing the [Office of the Chief Medical Examiner] and its current and former employees, including Dr. Fowler, from those who might be involved in any review of [the examiner’s] reports,” Coombs wrote.”

Due to pending litigation, the office declined to comment on whether Fowler’s testimony in Chauvin’s murder trial influenced its decision to conduct a review.

The office will review all cases from 2003-2020, which falls under Fowler’s tenure. He retired in 2019 after 17 years as chief medical examiner to go into private consulting practice. He was considered one of the foremost medical examiners in the country and served on national boards.

Included in that time period is the death of Tyrone West, who died after struggling with Baltimore Police following a traffic stop in 2013. Witnesses and the officers themselves said there was a violent struggle between the officers and West, but the state medical examiner’s office ruled that he died from natural causes exacerbated by the struggle and the summer heat. That ruling played a significant factor in the officers being cleared by the Baltimore State’s Attorney’s Office.

West’s sister Tawanda Jones has been fighting to get her brother’s case re-opened for eight years. She said word of the review was “the best news I’ve gotten all day.”

“That is what my family has been asking for literally since my brother was murdered, when they first lied and played games,” Jones said Friday.

Frosh’s office made the decision to review Fowler’s work at the end of a week that saw Black’s family and attorneys call out Frosh for what they said was hypocrisy. Frosh sent out tweets praising the jury’s verdict in the Floyd case, never mentioning that Fowler, Maryland’s longtime chief medical examiner, served as a primary witness for Chauvin’s defense.

The letter from Mitchell and the hundreds of doctors was highly critical of Fowler’s testimony, particularly Fowler’s claim that Floyd may have suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning, even though no tests for that were conducted.

“We believe the unsubstantiated opinion that carbon monoxide exposure may have contributed to the death of George Floyd is far outside that standard and is grounds for an immediate investigation into the practices of the physician as well as the practice of the Maryland State Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) while under his leadership,” the letter said.

The letter draws specific attention to Fowler’s use of the “undetermined” cause of death conclusion. Fowler had come under scrutiny more than a decade ago due to the medical examiner’s office finding the cause of death “undetermined” in hundreds of cases, mostly drug-related, each year.Fowler said in 2008 that the standard was “intellectually honest” because he could not determine with reasonable certainty how the person really died. The standard was unique to Maryland — only Rhode Island and Massachusetts used the same standard at the time — and predated his 1993 arrival in the office.

One of Fowler’s office’s best known rulings came in the death of Freddie Gray, who they determined died from injuries suffered in the back of a police van. The autopsy concluded that officers’ failure to take care of him and seek medical attention made his death a homicide, and prompted State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby to swiftly file charges against six officers.

All were either acquitted or had their charges dropped.

Kenneth Ravenell, the attorney for Black’s family, on Friday praised news of the review.

“We welcome the governor and the attorney general’s office to get involved in seeking justice for Anton Black and his family,” Ravenell said in a statement. “If the governor and the AG are serious about pursuing justice for Anton, they will adopt all of the suggestions in the physician’s letter.”

[Postauthoritarian America]

Anybody who watched a significant portion of the trial would not think that. The Prosecutors clearly articulated how Chauvin's action were unlawful and why they met the criteria for the charges levied, and the Defense was pretty shit over all. From offering alternate theories that actually provides evidence against Chauvin (the Carbon Monoxide argument was not only a pretty silly argument, it actually still leaves him culpable as he put Floyd in that position), to stating things as a matter of law that is not (,No, reasonable doubt does not mean fanciful or capricious, and no specific intent is not required under Murder 2 charges), to just coming off like a bit of a weasely defense (Since he wasn't on Floyd's neck the entire time, then it a-ok even though for a significant portion of the time he was on Floyd's neck - basically, it not illegal, because it's only a little bit of excessive force), to just downright stupid (since nobody could possible have seen Chauvin's foot off the ground, and it was brief, then it wasn't a problem). The Prosecutors made some big blunders, but the defense really didn't give an adequate argument to instill reasonable doubt.

There were probably better arguments that the defense could have gone for, that may have even gotten him off of Murder charges at the least, but the "well, he only committed a little bit assault and with only a little bit of depraved indifference" isn't a good look to an actually fair jury.

And Shapiro thinks Chauvin was railroaded. Why do conservative media personalities come up with conspiracy theories when the reality is right in front of them? It's like how Shapiro started suggesting that Trump had the election stolen instead of facing the reality that he ran a shitty campaign and shit presidency and he lost. Chauvin wasn't railroaded. He committed a crime and his defense team sucked eggs, so the jury convicted him. Ben should ask the defense why they're so bad at their job or even better, ask Chauvin if he regrets killing George Floyd.

How many Republican politicians have made statements in the last week supporting the verdict? Damn few. It is now a political question in this country whether or not cops should continue to cut down young unarmed Black men in the streets. If young unarmed white men were shot and killed at anything like the same frequency we would be talking about abolishing the police today. And there wouldn't just be bipartisan agreement, Tucker Carlson and his ilk would be demanding it.

Meanwhile near Knoxville, TN two women were caught trying to pass a fake bill at a Dollar General store. Take the quiz before reading the source: were they knelt on by the cops for any length of time? Were they even arrested? What race were they? What denomination was the bill?

[North Washington Republic]

Anybody who watched a significant portion of the trial would not think that. The Prosecutors clearly articulated how Chauvin's action were unlawful and why they met the criteria for the charges levied, and the Defense was pretty shit over all. From offering alternate theories that actually provides evidence against Chauvin (the Carbon Monoxide argument was not only a pretty silly argument, it actually still leaves him culpable as he put Floyd in that position), to stating things as a matter of law that is not (,No, reasonable doubt does not mean fanciful or capricious, and no specific intent is not required under Murder 2 charges), to just coming off like a bit of a weasely defense (Since he wasn't on Floyd's neck the entire time, then it a-ok even though for a significant portion of the time he was on Floyd's neck - basically, it not illegal, because it's only a little bit of excessive force), to just downright stupid (since nobody could possible have seen Chauvin's foot off the ground, and it was brief, then it wasn't a problem). The Prosecutors made some big blunders, but the defense really didn't give an adequate argument to instill reasonable doubt.

There were probably better arguments that the defense could have gone for, that may have even gotten him off of Murder charges at the least, but the "well, he only committed a little bit assault and with only a little bit of depraved indifference" isn't a good look to an actually fair jury.

And Shapiro thinks Chauvin was railroaded. Why do conservative media personalities come up with conspiracy theories when the reality is right in front of them? It's like how Shapiro started suggesting that Trump had the election stolen instead of facing the reality that he ran a shitty campaign and shit presidency and he lost. Chauvin wasn't railroaded. He committed a crime and his defense team sucked eggs, so the jury convicted him. Ben should ask the defense why they're so bad at their job or even better, ask Chauvin if he regrets killing George Floyd.

Because the current level of bat shit craziness of the American right is severe, while on the left, it is elevated.

[Ifreann]

Denying reality is their job.

But do they *believe* it themselves or is it just for the money and attention ?

Dave Rubin invites open homophobes onto his show who'll tell him to his face that his marriage to his husband is degenerate and illegitimate. Ben Shapiro will excuse antisemitism when it comes from Ann Coulter. Blair White claimed that Steven Crowder told her in person that he didn't care about the causes for which he advocates. These people would step over their own mothers for that icky, sticky cashish.

[North Washington Republic]

But do they *believe* it themselves or is it just for the money and attention ?

Dave Rubin invites open homophobes onto his show who'll tell him to his face that his marriage to his husband is degenerate and illegitimate. Ben Shapiro will excuse antisemitism when it comes from Ann Coulter. Blair White claimed that Steven Crowder told her in person that he didn't care about the causes for which he advocates. These people would step over their own mothers for that icky, sticky cashish.

Indeed. They whore themselves to the far-right for the money. Especially Rubin and White...and Rubin. The guy failed as a stand up comedian, so he decided to simp for the far-right. And I believe that he’s going say he is “ex-gay” while still having a relationship with his husband. Just like Milo did.

[Austreylia]

lmaooooooooooo

The defense witness Dr. David Fowler's work on in-custody death reports as Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland is going to be be re-examined

The guy should've known not to contradict the opinion of violent rioters!

[Kowani]

lmaooooooooooo

The defense witness Dr. David Fowler's work on in-custody death reports as Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland is going to be be re-examined

The guy should've known not to contradict the opinion of violent rioters!

yeah this comment has nothing to do with the article

[Esalia]

lmaooooooooooo

The defense witness Dr. David Fowler's work on in-custody death reports as Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland is going to be be re-examined

The guy should've known not to contradict the opinion of violent rioters!

This is weak.

[South Americanastan]

The guy should've known not to contradict the opinion of violent rioters!

yeah this comment has nothing to do with the article

Wait, isn't it illegal for people to be punished for things they say in a courtroom?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

And Shapiro thinks Chauvin was railroaded. Why do conservative media personalities come up with conspiracy theories when the reality is right in front of them? It's like how Shapiro started suggesting that Trump had the election stolen instead of facing the reality that he ran a shitty campaign and shit presidency and he lost. Chauvin wasn't railroaded. He committed a crime and his defense team sucked eggs, so the jury convicted him. Ben should ask the defense why they're so bad at their job or even better, ask Chauvin if he regrets killing George Floyd.

How many Republican politicians have made statements in the last week supporting the verdict? Damn few. It is now a political question in this country whether or not cops should continue to cut down young unarmed Black men in the streets. If young unarmed white men were shot and killed at anything like the same frequency we would be talking about abolishing the police today. And there wouldn't just be bipartisan agreement, Tucker Carlson and his ilk would be demanding it.

Meanwhile near Knoxville, TN two women were caught trying to pass a fake bill at a Dollar General store. Take the quiz before reading the source: were they knelt on by the cops for any length of time? Were they even arrested? What race were they? What denomination was the bill?

I mean Robert Delgado was killed like last week and no one seems to be talking about that.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

lmaooooooooooo

The defense witness Dr. David Fowler's work on in-custody death reports as Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland is going to be be re-examined

The guy should've known not to contradict the opinion of violent rioters!

That's a pretty interesting way of saying the facts, but okay.

[Ethel mermania]

yeah this comment has nothing to do with the article

Wait, isn't it illegal for people to be punished for things they say in a courtroom?

No

[Vassenor]

lmaooooooooooo

The defense witness Dr. David Fowler's work on in-custody death reports as Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland is going to be be re-examined

The guy should've known not to contradict the opinion of violent rioters!

The cope is strong with this one. But then I'm not surprised you have a problem with reality catching up with someone with a history of covering up police murders.

“His testimony and conclusions were so outside the bounds of accepted forensic practice that all his previous work should come into question.” Sounds like pretty sound logic to me.

[Austreylia]

The cope is strong with this one. But then I'm not surprised you have a problem with reality catching up with someone with a history of covering up police murders.

It doesn't mean much from you. You do everything you can to avoid condemning violent rioters.

[Vassenor]

The cope is strong with this one. But then I'm not surprised you have a problem with reality catching up with someone with a history of covering up police murders.

It doesn't mean much from you. You do everything you can to avoid condemning violent rioters.

[Austreylia]

When the question of condemning the violent rioters comes up, you either slither away and don't answer, or you reply with something entirely irrelevant.

[South Americanastan]

When the question of condemning the violent rioters comes up, you either slither away and don't answer, or you reply with something entirely irrelevant.

Have you outright asked, or have you been trying to ask him in a bullshit roundabout way, as you usually do?

[Vassenor]

When the question of condemning the violent rioters comes up, you either slither away and don't answer, or you reply with something entirely irrelevant.

So because I don't consider property damage and theft morally equivalent to high treason I am failing to condemn riots?

[Washington Resistance Army]

When the question of condemning the violent rioters comes up, you either slither away and don't answer, or you reply with something entirely irrelevant.

So because I don't consider property damage and theft morally equivalent to high treason I am failing to condemn riots?

Given I don't think you've ever just straight up said "I condemn the riots", yeah pretty much. That's how words work.

[Gravlen]

yeah this comment has nothing to do with the article

Wait, isn't it illegal for people to be punished for things they say in a courtroom?

Not only "No, absolutely not", but quite the opposite. We have special rules in place to punish people for cartain things they say in a courtroom, which they would never be punished for outside of a courtroom. Punishment for perjury is a thing, for example.