Trial of Derek Chauvin: A Juror Supported What?!

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Why does Chauvin deserve acquittal? Also, radicalization in what regard?

Because he didn't murder Floyd and the loss of faith in the system on one side combined with the backlash to the expected riots on the other.

Tfw you kneel on someone's neck and they coincidently die for some other reason. And you keep kneeling on their neck.

Derek Chauvin better pray his defense had better arguments than this.

[Thermodolia]

I never once said he was in high state of pain tolerance. I said he was in Excited Delirium. I will concede drug usage likely did play a part. But given the fact Floyd was not actively resisting at the time, there was no reason whatsoever for Chauvin to maintain that pressure. He could have released the pressure and if Floyd became violent again, re-apply it. Also given that even after Floyd lost consciousness, and stopped breathing he maintained the pressure. That in itself is gross negligence. This was not murder, as I have yet to see a motive produced as to why Chauvin would murder Floyd. This is manslaughter at best.

A motive? I think it's easy to explain. Floyd resisted too much and Chauvin got pissed so he decided to "teach George Floyd a lesson." I can't prove that that's exactly what happened but it isnt like that isn't a possibility. It's a pretty strong one.

That’s not sufficient grounds for murder though

[Borderlands of Rojava]

A motive? I think it's easy to explain. Floyd resisted too much and Chauvin got pissed so he decided to "teach George Floyd a lesson." I can't prove that that's exactly what happened but it isnt like that isn't a possibility. It's a pretty strong one.

That’s not sufficient grounds for murder though

Oh boy. This is gonna be a bad week.

If the jury doesn't think that's grounds for murder...

[Mestovakia]

Tfw you kneel on someone's neck and they coincidently die for some other reason. And you keep kneeling on their neck.

Derek Chauvin better pray his defense had better arguments than this.

They did, and they demolished the claim Chauvin killed him decisively in my estimation.

The key words.
"In my estimation."

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Tfw you kneel on someone's neck and they coincidently die for some other reason. And you keep kneeling on their neck.

Derek Chauvin better pray his defense had better arguments than this.

They did, and they demolished the claim Chauvin killed him decisively in my estimation.

You must have watched a totally different trial then. Cause in the one I saw, numerous different people said Chauvin fucked up kneeling on Floyd, and they also debunked the idea that the drugs killed him.

[Necroghastia]

Tfw you kneel on someone's neck and they coincidently die for some other reason. And you keep kneeling on their neck.

Derek Chauvin better pray his defense had better arguments than this.

They did, and they demolished the claim Chauvin killed him decisively in my estimation.

If Chauvin didn't kill him, what the fuck did?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

They did, and they demolished the claim Chauvin killed him decisively in my estimation.

If Chauvin didn't kill him, what the fuck did?

See Floyd just died for no reason while being knelt on. Just one big coincidence I guess.

[Thermodolia]

That’s not sufficient grounds for murder though

Oh boy. This is gonna be a bad week.

If the jury doesn't think that's grounds for murder...

It’s not though. However it doesn’t mean he walks. Manslaughter is a felony

[Grinning Dragon]

I'm sure it's a prepare for the worst hope for the best type thing. I also do wonder how many business spent the extra cash on shatter proof reinforced glass windows/doors after the last set of riots.

Ngl I’d love to see the look on the rioters faces when the rock they chucked at the window comes flying back at them

Same. Even better when that same projectile knocks their ass out and hopefully it's caught on video surveillance then uploaded for the world to see such brilliance.

[Thermodolia]

Tfw you kneel on someone's neck and they coincidently die for some other reason. And you keep kneeling on their neck.

Derek Chauvin better pray his defense had better arguments than this.

They did, and they demolished the claim Chauvin killed him decisively in my estimation.

Not by their own estimation given that they asked for a mistrial

[Tsaivao]

If Chauvin didn't kill him, what the fuck did?

His own underlying health conditions and/or a massive amount of fent in his system?

Numerous medical professionals from the prosecution pointed out that the amount of fentanyl in his system would have been unlikely to be lethal.

It's much easier to take Occam's Razer and say that the cause of asphyxiation (as pointed out in the autopsies) was due to constricted bloodflow via pressure to the neck.

[Xmara]

I think Chauvin will be found guilty of at least manslaughter, though I think finding him guilty of third degree murder would be more fitting.

Yes, I still have a little faith in the criminal justice system.

[Drew Durrnil]

Numerous medical professionals from the prosecution pointed out that the amount of fentanyl in his system would have been unlikely to be lethal.

It's much easier to take Occam's Razer and say that the cause of asphyxiation (as pointed out in the autopsies) was due to constricted bloodflow via pressure to the neck.

Meanwhile the majority of medical literature on the subject, as the defense could pull, shows it was a lethal dose or near lethal. Combined with his existing underlying conditions, a near lethal dose can be made lethal under those circumstances. As it was, in the official autopsy asphyxia wasn't listed as the cause of death, so I have no idea what you are getting at.

That's false.

[Picairn]

Meanwhile the majority of medical literature on the subject, as the defense could pull, shows it was a lethal dose or near lethal. Combined with his existing underlying conditions, a near lethal dose can be made lethal under those circumstances. As it was, in the official autopsy asphyxia wasn't listed as the cause of death, so I have no idea what you are getting at.

Why do you continue to lie about the autopsy reports? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... -overdose/

[Drew Durrnil]

That's false.

Then prove it lol.

ok

[Fartsniffage]

If Chauvin didn't kill him, what the fuck did?

His own underlying health conditions and/or a massive amount of fent in his system?

Tell you what. I'll cuff you behind your back and kneel on your neck for 9 minutes and we can see what happens. You up for it?

[Xmara]

Why do you continue to lie about the autopsy reports? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... -overdose/

Hold up there buckaroo, you're shifting the goalposts pretty laughably. I said asphyxia wasn't listed as the cause of death and you said that is false. I thus told you to prove, it so let's see the proof that asphyxia is the cause of death listed in the official report.

Hold that thought. I need to research a few things and I'll be right back.

[Picairn]

Hold up there buckaroo, you're shifting the goalposts pretty laughably. I said asphyxia wasn't listed as the cause of death and you said that is false. I thus told you to prove, it so let's see the proof that asphyxia is the cause of death listed in the official report.

Hold up there my guy, you are deflecting pretty laughably. First you said that George Floyd died of underlying health conditions and fentanyl, and when challenged about it, you deflected to placing the burden of proof on others to prove asphyxiation. Nevermind that the official report ruled that his cause of death was a homicide and a second, independent report ruled it as asphyxiation.

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... 1.2020.pdf
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go ... d=70994827

[Borderlands of Rojava]

His own underlying health conditions and/or a massive amount of fent in his system?

Tell you what. I'll cuff you behind your back and kneel on your neck for 9 minutes and we can see what happens. You up for it?

Damn you not playing.

[Seangoli]

That’s not sufficient grounds for murder though

Oh boy. This is gonna be a bad week.

If the jury doesn't think that's grounds for murder...

There would need to be clear evidence that that was Chauvin's motive; without that evidence, from a legal standpoint, there is not the specific intent required for higher murder charges, and a jury would be utterly failing in their duty to assume as such without that evidence of motive.

As it stands, Murder 3 is probably the only applicable murder charge that would be a verdict, which does not require explicit intent to kill Floyd, and barring that Manslaughter which requires gross indifference or negligence for life.

To find him guilty of Murder 2 would require the prosecution to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Chauvin fully intended to kill floyd in a non-premeditated fashion , which is frankly idle speculation from what I have read and seen with the case presented.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Oh boy. This is gonna be a bad week.

If the jury doesn't think that's grounds for murder...

There would need to be clear evidence that that was Chauvin's motive; without that evidence, from a legal standpoint, there is not the specific intent required for higher murder charges, and a jury would be utterly failing in their duty to assume as such without that evidence of motive.

As it stands, Murder 3 is probably the only applicable murder charge that would be a verdict, which does not require explicit intent to kill Floyd, and barring that Manslaughter which requires gross indifference or negligence for life.

To find him guilty of Murder 2 would require the prosecution to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Chauvin fully intended to kill floyd in a non-premeditated fashion , which is frankly idle speculation from what I have read and seen with the case presented.

I know that, but tell some of the demonstrators out there.

[Xmara]

Why do you continue to lie about the autopsy reports? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... -overdose/

Hold up there buckaroo, you're shifting the goalposts pretty laughably. I said asphyxia wasn't listed as the cause of death and you said that is false. I thus told you to prove, it so let's see the proof that asphyxia is the cause of death listed in the official report.

Done a little research. Still reading some stuff, but let me explain this to you.

When Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd, Floyd was suffering from dyspnea, or "air hunger." He was gasping for breath because he couldn't breathe. In fentanyl-associated overdoses (and most overdoses in general), the victim suffers from hypoventilation (their breathing slows way down and they are unaware they are lacking oxygen; often appears sleepy).

Now, dyspnea can be associated with COVID-19 (which Floyd had just recovered from) and cardiovascular disease (which Floyd had). However, a pulmonologist who testified at the trial stated that the position Chauvin put Floyd in made it extremely difficult for him to expand his chest to take in enough oxygen, which points to asphyxia as a likely cause of death. This isn't to say that fentanyl had no effect on Floyd's condition. It definitely had to aggravate it.

But that doesn't change the fact that, by making it extremely difficult for Floyd to take in oxygen, Chauvin likely contributed to his death. Had Chauvin not used excessive force, Floyd would probably still be here today.

[Shofercia]

Look, I am a Libertarian. I think BLM and Antifa are wrong and promote negative attitudes towards all police. I believe cops are good people, with a few bad apples. But look at the video of Chauvin putting his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 1/2 minutes, of Floyd telling Chauvin "I can't breathe" and crying out for his momma, look at it, and tell me Chauvin's innocent.

Chauvin is innocent. If you want to play "look at the video for emotional feels!!!" the defense took that apart quite well with citing earlier videos of Floyd playing that same card in earlier interactions with the police, beyond the fact that if you're able to say "I can't breathe" you can, you know, actually breathe.

All that without even looking deeper into context, such as the fact the defense produced a study from Canada which found that, from 3,000 arrests which featured the cops there doing the same exact stance on criminals there produced no deaths.

Dude killed a dude on camera. Pretty sure he's guilty. I'm one of the first to make fun of wokeness here, but this was a genuine, bona fide killing.

kekw, western libertarians truly are an interesting bunch. overall South Americanastan's point about Chauvin is correct though.

Oh yeah. Chauvin is guilty as fuck.

There's no need to insult fuck like that.


Also, I believe we have four verdicts. NSG saw the trial, at least quite a few of us did. Let's get a poll going:

Murder 2 - the intent one
Murder 3 - the other murdery one
Homicide - he killed the dude
Innocent - for those who prefer cool aid to popcorn

Guilty - Murder 2
Guilty - Murder 3
Guilty - Manslaughter
Innocent - Floyd died of a heart attack
Innocent - Floyd died of a drug overdose
Innocent - Other

This is just a suggestion, but I'd be curious how NSG votes.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Oh boy. This is gonna be a bad week.

If the jury doesn't think that's grounds for murder...

There would need to be clear evidence that that was Chauvin's motive; without that evidence, from a legal standpoint, there is not the specific intent required for higher murder charges, and a jury would be utterly failing in their duty to assume as such without that evidence of motive.

As it stands, Murder 3 is probably the only applicable murder charge that would be a verdict, which does not require explicit intent to kill Floyd, and barring that Manslaughter which requires gross indifference or negligence for life.

To find him guilty of Murder 2 would require the prosecution to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Chauvin fully intended to kill floyd in a non-premeditated fashion , which is frankly idle speculation from what I have read and seen with the case presented.

Murder 3 is the charge I hear the most about and the one that may probably stick. If Maxine Water’s stupidity didn’t damage things that is.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

There would need to be clear evidence that that was Chauvin's motive; without that evidence, from a legal standpoint, there is not the specific intent required for higher murder charges, and a jury would be utterly failing in their duty to assume as such without that evidence of motive.

As it stands, Murder 3 is probably the only applicable murder charge that would be a verdict, which does not require explicit intent to kill Floyd, and barring that Manslaughter which requires gross indifference or negligence for life.

To find him guilty of Murder 2 would require the prosecution to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Chauvin fully intended to kill floyd in a non-premeditated fashion , which is frankly idle speculation from what I have read and seen with the case presented.

Murder 3 is the charge I hear the most about and the one that may probably stick. If Maxine Water’s stupidity didn’t damage things that is.

Maxine really fucked up. I so hope she didn't just damage the case against Chauvin.