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Trial of Derek Chauvin: A Juror Supported What?!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is Derek Chauvin Guilty?

Yes, he was completely responsible.
587
62%
I don’t know. I need more information first.
78
8%
No, Floyd had a heart attack.
69
7%
No, Floyd had a drug overdose.
175
19%
Other
35
4%
 
Total votes : 944

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:06 pm

Risottia wrote:


I am starting to think that shooting Chauvin while he was kneeling on Floyd's neck should have been considered a case of legitimate use of force in defence of the victim of an armed criminal.

It sounds like it, though I would not recommend that unless you plan on getting into a shoot-out with the police.
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Zurkir
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Postby Zurkir » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:25 pm

Risottia wrote:


I am starting to think that shooting Chauvin while he was kneeling on Floyd's neck should have been considered a case of legitimate use of force in defence of the victim of an armed criminal.


Because that’s something else that we need. Partisan vigilantes shooting down cops based on personal judgement. And considering the misconceptions of what “unnecessary force” is - half the cops in the nation would be dead if that one caught on. (Predicts to hear “Good” in response to this.) Besides I thought “armed lunatics playing at hero” was a no no...

Chauvin’s fellow officers should’ve stopped him or made it clear he needed to ease up, and they didn’t. That’s negligence on their part.
Last edited by Zurkir on Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:30 pm

Zurkir wrote:..

Chauvin’s fellow officers should’ve stopped him or made it clear he needed to ease up, and they didn’t. That’s negligence on their part.


Were they not cops in training, with Chauvin their teacher ?
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Zurkir
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Postby Zurkir » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:35 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Zurkir wrote:..

Chauvin’s fellow officers should’ve stopped him or made it clear he needed to ease up, and they didn’t. That’s negligence on their part.


Were they not cops in training, with Chauvin their teacher ?


Two of them were rookies.

And I’m unsure what your point is. But I’m sure there were better ways to have deescalated that situation other than someone opening up on Chauvin with a firearm, referring back to the previous post I quoted.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:42 pm

Zurkir wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Were they not cops in training, with Chauvin their teacher ?


Two of them were rookies.

And I’m unsure what your point is.

The point is that it is unrealistic to expect that two rookies will stop their teacher from doing something.

But I’m sure there were better ways to have deescalated that situation other than someone opening up on Chauvin with a firearm, referring back to the previous post I quoted.

Like what then ?
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Zurkir
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Postby Zurkir » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:46 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Zurkir wrote:
Two of them were rookies.

And I’m unsure what your point is.

The point is that it is unrealistic to expect that two rookies will stop their teacher from doing something.


That’s a fair point.

But I’m sure there were better ways to have deescalated that situation other than someone opening up on Chauvin with a firearm, referring back to the previous post I quoted.

Like what then ?


I’m no expert and won’t try to offer an exact alternative.
But to suggest the best way to have defused that situation at it’s climax was for someone to whip out their piece and drop Chauvin and his fellow officers is deranged. The funny thing is is that many who would defend such an action are any - other day - the “anti gun” and “anti vigilante” types too I dare say.
Last edited by Zurkir on Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Picairn » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:01 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:What’s wrong with being racist? People ain’t equal on race basis.

Except that race is a social construct. Geneticists have confirmed that all humans share 99.9% of the genes with each other and the last 0.1% is skin and hair color. This means that humans are not inherently different from each other. Intelligence between races is the result of socio-economic factors (poverty, access to education, family, etc.) rather than genetic. Scientific racism is bullshit and has been repeatedly debunked.

I understand that this is no thread for such discussion, but I have to say that while I believe in partial biological reasons for the behavior of large groups of people, I also think that this can be largely attributed to socioeconomical factors, which brings me to my main belief: black culture is inherently inferior to white and some Asian cultures. Some exceptions, of course exist, but they solely prove the rule

As I said, there is no genetic or biological basis for different behavior between races, because races aren't real. They are a social construct. You are repeating a debunked lie.

At least I admit that I’m biased. Most liberals don’t.

:rofl: I would rather be "biased" than repeating ignorant claims about race.
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:05 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:What’s wrong with being racist?

Because most emphatic people agree that hurting others for fuck all reasons is morally bad.

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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:05 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf
Here is the autopsy report. Where does it say that he died of asphyxiation?

:roll: Do you know what "neck compression" means?
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:23 pm

Laka Strolistandiler wrote:
Picairn wrote:
You are literally lying against the autopsy report. Why are you lying?

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... 6-3-20.pdf
Here is the autopsy report. Where does it say that he died of asphyxiation?

I'm so terribly sorry Mr. Wright, but that autopsy report is outdated. A second autopsy was performed yesterday, at my reques-

Wait. Wrong website.
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Neu California
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Postby Neu California » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:31 pm

BBC: George Floyd died from lack of oxygen, not fentanyl, says expert

Maybe now we can put the "fentanyl killed George Floyd" argument to bed now.

Or maybe I'm just unreasonably optimistic
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:32 am

Zurkir wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Were they not cops in training, with Chauvin their teacher ?


Two of them were rookies.

And I’m unsure what your point is. But I’m sure there were better ways to have deescalated that situation other than someone opening up on Chauvin with a firearm, referring back to the previous post I quoted.


Would have saved Floyd's life.
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Postby Vorausen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:47 am

San Lumen wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:Manslaughter almost certainly is going to land, at least in my relatively uneducated understanding of the law. And so would third degree murder, and if the jury decides it is a hate crime then it could be second degree murder too, on the assumption that Chauvin killed Floyd because he's black. It's a bit of a stretch, but the first two should put Chauvin away for a long, long time.


I hope your right. I don't have faith in the justice system to convict cops of wrongdoing.



Too many protections, at least I think so. The same goes for most positions of power. (although some make more sense than others. It is much easier to replace say a police officer compared to a president.)

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:20 am

Vorausen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I hope your right. I don't have faith in the justice system to convict cops of wrongdoing.



Too many protections, at least I think so. The same goes for most positions of power. (although some make more sense than others. It is much easier to replace say a police officer compared to a president.)

many elected officials have been convicted and gone to jail. Few if any police officers have. There was an officer in Chicago who was convicted a few years ago but that seems to be the exception not the norm. The system is inherently biased towards cops.

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Vorausen
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Postby Vorausen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:21 am

San Lumen wrote:
Vorausen wrote:

Too many protections, at least I think so. The same goes for most positions of power. (although some make more sense than others. It is much easier to replace say a police officer compared to a president.)

many elected officials have been convicted and gone to jail. Few if any police officers have. There was an officer in Chicago who was convicted a few years ago but that seems to be the exception not the norm. The system is inherently biased towards cops.


I was talking about the highest up, like the vice president, the president, etc.
But your point still stands, obviously, some of these protections are ridiculous.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:42 am

Zurkir wrote:
Risottia wrote:
I am starting to think that shooting Chauvin while he was kneeling on Floyd's neck should have been considered a case of legitimate use of force in defence of the victim of an armed criminal.


Because that’s something else that we need. Partisan vigilantes shooting down cops based on personal judgement. And considering the misconceptions of what “unnecessary force” is - half the cops in the nation would be dead if that one caught on. (Predicts to hear “Good” in response to this.) Besides I thought “armed lunatics playing at hero” was a no no...

Chauvin’s fellow officers should’ve stopped him or made it clear he needed to ease up, and they didn’t. That’s negligence on their part.


Okay well if they won't stop him, who will?

I really think we need to bring back policing the police. A cop watch if you will.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:44 am

Neu California wrote:BBC: George Floyd died from lack of oxygen, not fentanyl, says expert

Maybe now we can put the "fentanyl killed George Floyd" argument to bed now.

Or maybe I'm just unreasonably optimistic


If a black man who never did anything wrong in his life was killed, a literal black Jesus, I'm sure right wing media would still pull out all their racist stereotypes to try to justify his killing while also trying to make you believe they somehow aren't racist.
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:45 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Zurkir wrote:
Because that’s something else that we need. Partisan vigilantes shooting down cops based on personal judgement. And considering the misconceptions of what “unnecessary force” is - half the cops in the nation would be dead if that one caught on. (Predicts to hear “Good” in response to this.) Besides I thought “armed lunatics playing at hero” was a no no...

Chauvin’s fellow officers should’ve stopped him or made it clear he needed to ease up, and they didn’t. That’s negligence on their part.


Okay well if they won't stop him, who will?

I really think we need to bring back policing the police. A cop watch if you will.

The brotherhood among cops needs to end. Union Presidents and fellow officers need to start calling out the actions of bad cops and intervening as well. Chauvin's fellow officers should have done something instead of standing around watching as he murdered Floyd.
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Insaanistan » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:48 am

According to the doctor’s testimony, the level of meth in Floyd’s system was low and consistent with a prescription dose.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:54 am

San Lumen wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Okay well if they won't stop him, who will?

I really think we need to bring back policing the police. A cop watch if you will.

The brotherhood among cops needs to end. Union Presidents and fellow officers need to start calling out the actions of bad cops and intervening as well. Chauvin's fellow officers should have done something instead of standing around watching as he murdered Floyd.

Two things

1. Chauvin was senior cop at the scene. Lane told him Floyd was in distress, and Chauvin said Floyd was ok.

2. unions exist to protect the workers and advocate for the workers rights. Its not the place of any union to be judge and jury of their membership. Their job is to protect the worker, even Chauvin. Its up to the employer to enforce the law and bring up disciplinary action, not the union.
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vorausen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:56 am

This is what I think will become of Derek Chauvin

A. He is found guilty of at least one of the charges, America and the BLM movement rejoices. Derek ends up in Prison
B. He is not found guilty, BLM movements and African American community is outraged, however, Derek stays protected and lives the rest of his life
C. (the least likely) not only is Derek found not guilty, but with ab target on him by outraged BLM extremists, he is killed.

hopefully, however option C should not happen. If the justice system finds him not guiltly do not take matters into your own hands.

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Postby Senkaku » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:58 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
San Lumen wrote:The brotherhood among cops needs to end. Union Presidents and fellow officers need to start calling out the actions of bad cops and intervening as well. Chauvin's fellow officers should have done something instead of standing around watching as he murdered Floyd.

Two things

1. Chauvin was senior cop at the scene. Lane told him Floyd was in distress, and Chauvin said Floyd was ok.

“Just taking orders” is as bad a defense as it’s always been
2. unions exist to protect the workers and advocate for the workers rights. Its not the place of any union to be judge and jury of their membership. Their job is to protect the worker, even Chauvin. Its up to the employer to enforce the law, not the union.

Police guilds are not morally equivalent to workers’ unions; cops are already in a very privileged negotiating position as the armed frontline agents of state enforcement vs. the very minimal leverage any other group of workers have
Last edited by Senkaku on Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:59 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
San Lumen wrote:The brotherhood among cops needs to end. Union Presidents and fellow officers need to start calling out the actions of bad cops and intervening as well. Chauvin's fellow officers should have done something instead of standing around watching as he murdered Floyd.

Two things

1. Chauvin was senior cop at the scene. Lane told him Floyd was in distress, and Chauvin said Floyd was ok.

2. unions exist to protect the workers and advocate for the workers rights. Its not the place of any union to be judge and jury of their membership. Their job is to protect the worker, even Chauvin. Its up to the employer to enforce the law and bring up disciplinary action, not the union.


Don't care. They should have intervened. They are guilty by association by not stopping a murder.

If a union cannot condemn the actions of a bad cop they should not exist. The constant standing behind fellow officers by the department and fellow cops does not make them look good.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:01 am

Vorausen wrote:This is what I think will become of Derek Chauvin

A. He is found guilty of at least one of the charges, America and the BLM movement rejoices. Derek ends up in Prison
B. He is not found guilty, BLM movements and African American community is outraged, however, Derek stays protected and lives the rest of his life
C. (the least likely) not only is Derek found not guilty, but with ab target on him by outraged BLM extremists, he is killed.

hopefully, however option C should not happen. If the justice system finds him not guiltly do not take matters into your own hands.


If he is not convicted it will show the system is beyond biased and that indicting officers is largely for show. The protests and riots we saw last year will look like nothing.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:03 am

Senkaku wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Two things

1. Chauvin was senior cop at the scene. Lane told him Floyd was in distress, and Chauvin said Floyd was ok.

“Just taking orders” is as bad a defense as it’s always been
2. unions exist to protect the workers and advocate for the workers rights. Its not the place of any union to be judge and jury of their membership. Their job is to protect the worker, even Chauvin. Its up to the employer to enforce the law, not the union.

Police guilds are not morally equivalent to workers’ unions; cops are already in a very privileged negotiating position as the armed frontline agents of state enforcement vs. the very minimal leverage any other group of workers have

Cop unions are not a guilds and have very little in common with a guild. in most jurisdictions cops can't strike. So no.
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