Nippon Animation did an adaptation of it over a decade ago. Javert's Bridge scene
Advertisement
by Mestovakia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:08 am
by Mestovakia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:09 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Ifreann wrote:You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.
The manner of someone's death doesn't change how they lived. I sympathize with victims of police brutality when they are innocent of crimes committed OR have sought to redeem themselves. George Floyd was neither of these things, hence why he doesn't have my sympathy. Did George Floyd help orphans in his spare time? Did he volunteer his time at animal or homeless shelters to help those in need? Did he do anything at all to make amends for his crime save for serving his prison sentences? The man was convicted and served his time so his rights should be respected yes, his killer should be put on trial but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad person nor does it mean he deserves sympathy.
When Robespierre tried to kill himself, he shot himself and failed. He was probably in agony for some time before his execution. He killed more than a few people in his reign of terror, but he died a painful death. Does he deserve sympathy? No. Stalin's purges killed hundreds of thousands and his policies killed millions, but he had a seizure and probably died slowly and humiliatingly. Does he deserve your sympathy for that? No. Past crimes aren't absolved by a unfair and/or violent death.
by Insaanistan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:11 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Ifreann wrote:You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.
The manner of someone's death doesn't change how they lived. I sympathize with victims of police brutality when they are innocent of crimes committed OR have sought to redeem themselves. George Floyd was neither of these things, hence why he doesn't have my sympathy. Did George Floyd help orphans in his spare time? Did he volunteer his time at animal or homeless shelters to help those in need? Did he do anything at all to make amends for his crime save for serving his prison sentences? The man was convicted and served his time so his rights should be respected yes, his killer should be put on trial but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad person nor does it mean he deserves sympathy.
When Robespierre tried to kill himself, he shot himself and failed. He was probably in agony for some time before his execution. He killed more than a few people in his reign of terror, but he died a painful death. Does he deserve sympathy? No. Stalin's purges killed hundreds of thousands and his policies killed millions, but he had a seizure and probably died slowly and humiliatingly. Does he deserve your sympathy for that? No. Past crimes aren't absolved by a unfair and/or violent death.
by Adamede » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:11 am
Jarvikan wrote:Insaanistan wrote:Nice try, but no, he didn’t.
After reading some sources (Not the BBC)I will admit I am wrong about the pregnant woman,but he was in jail for some time for both theft and cocaine
by Western Theram » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:12 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Kannap wrote:
And all the other deaths of people of color by the hand of police brutality - all the other names we've remembered and said over the years - have forced hundreds of police officers to be found guilty as a result of people out for blood? No, it hasn't, so I'm not holding my breath on this trial. We've seen lots of officers let off for this same thing, I'm not coming into this trial with any assumption that it'll be different.
I'm not concerned with the trials of the past, I'm concerned with right now and this current trial. That same sort of attitude you have is shared by plenty of other people who are willing to take it a step further-they want nothing more than to turn this trial into a crusade and quite frankly that's abhorrent regardless of the crime. You don't have to like Derek Chauvin-I don't. But I would at least hope you'd agree that he deserves a fair trial and a fair trial is unlikely to happen.
As I'm sure you know the penalty for murder is death or life imprisonment. We typically reserve this for intentional and premediated murders. Regardless of the circumstances a lot of people are going to demand this penalty be given, even if the facts point to something like manslaughter.
news:Gang of goblins charged with racketeering after gang war was interrupted.|Free Ravensburg coins the name of our animal: the Jackaroo
by Kilobugya » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:12 am
Alien Overlord wrote:When Robespierre tried to kill himself, he shot himself and failed. He was probably in agony for some time before his execution. He killed more than a few people in his reign of terror, but he died a painful death.
by Western Theram » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:15 am
Mestovakia wrote:Alien Overlord wrote:The manner of someone's death doesn't change how they lived. I sympathize with victims of police brutality when they are innocent of crimes committed OR have sought to redeem themselves. George Floyd was neither of these things, hence why he doesn't have my sympathy. Did George Floyd help orphans in his spare time? Did he volunteer his time at animal or homeless shelters to help those in need? Did he do anything at all to make amends for his crime save for serving his prison sentences? The man was convicted and served his time so his rights should be respected yes, his killer should be put on trial but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad person nor does it mean he deserves sympathy.
When Robespierre tried to kill himself, he shot himself and failed. He was probably in agony for some time before his execution. He killed more than a few people in his reign of terror, but he died a painful death. Does he deserve sympathy? No. Stalin's purges killed hundreds of thousands and his policies killed millions, but he had a seizure and probably died slowly and humiliatingly. Does he deserve your sympathy for that? No. Past crimes aren't absolved by a unfair and/or violent death.
Imagine comparing George Floyd to Stalin.
news:Gang of goblins charged with racketeering after gang war was interrupted.|Free Ravensburg coins the name of our animal: the Jackaroo
by Ifreann » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:16 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Ifreann wrote:You should sympathise with victims of police brutality even if they have committed crimes, because it is wrong for people to be brutalised by the police, even if they are criminals. This should be easy in this case, where the brutal killing is totally unrelated to the past crimes.
The manner of someone's death doesn't change how they lived. I sympathize with victims of police brutality when they are innocent of crimes committed OR have sought to redeem themselves. George Floyd was neither of these things, hence why he doesn't have my sympathy. Did George Floyd help orphans in his spare time? Did he volunteer his time at animal or homeless shelters to help those in need? Did he do anything at all to make amends for his crime save for serving his prison sentences? The man was convicted and served his time so his rights should be respected yes, his killer should be put on trial but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad person nor does it mean he deserves sympathy.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:16 am
by Alien Overlord » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:19 am
Kilobugya wrote:Alien Overlord wrote:As I'm sure you know the penalty for murder is death or life imprisonment.
I for once oppose death penalty or life imprisonment for everyone and that includes Derek Chauvin. I don't believe in vengeance or in going for blood. And I believe everyone can redeem themselves. But Derek Chauvin did commit a terrible crime, and must be found guilty of it. Not because he deserves to suffer, but because police brutality, fueled by impunity as it is, has to be put to a stop (of course, I know it won't be enough).
Ifreann wrote:Diarcesia wrote:Isn't that the issue within the issue? I feel a not insignificant percentage of the population would think criminals get what they deserve.
Even if we accept that some people deserve to die for their crimes, no one deserves to be choked to death in the street on suspicion of passing a fake twenty. Even the people who think that Chauvin did nothing wrong agree with this, which we can tell by how they feel the need to play the whole "He was no angel" game with Floyd, or pretend that actually he coincidentally died of an overdose while under Chauvin's knee. They wouldn't be making these kinds of excuses if they believed that Floyd had it coming.
Walkerfort wrote:so...
Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships
butterfly effect when give a butterfly cocaine
by Mestovakia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:23 am
Alien Overlord wrote:I don't see how it makes me a babbling idiot considering my point was stated clearly and was relevant to evidence I already mentioned. I chose Robespierre and Stalin because they are examples that anyone with rudimentary knowledge of history can understand without extensive research, but my point stands. A point which quite obviously went over your head.
by SD_Film Artists » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:24 am
Kannap wrote:SD_Film Artists wrote:
The real question is whether he had put that side of his life behind him or whether he was still a criminal. Either way I agree that it isn't justification for summary execution.
that question is irrelevant, even if he were a criminal he shouldn't have been murdered - after being apprehended - on the street. This trial isn't about whether George Floyd was guilty of anything, this trial is about whether Derek Chauvin is guilty or not.
by Alien Overlord » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:27 am
Ifreann wrote:Alien Overlord wrote:The manner of someone's death doesn't change how they lived. I sympathize with victims of police brutality when they are innocent of crimes committed OR have sought to redeem themselves. George Floyd was neither of these things, hence why he doesn't have my sympathy. Did George Floyd help orphans in his spare time? Did he volunteer his time at animal or homeless shelters to help those in need? Did he do anything at all to make amends for his crime save for serving his prison sentences? The man was convicted and served his time so his rights should be respected yes, his killer should be put on trial but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad person nor does it mean he deserves sympathy.
Of course he deserves sympathy. Whether he was a bad person or not is irrelevant. How someone lived doesn't change the manner of their death.
Walkerfort wrote:so...
Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships
butterfly effect when give a butterfly cocaine
by Silvedania » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:28 am
SD_Film Artists wrote:Kannap wrote:
that question is irrelevant, even if he were a criminal he shouldn't have been murdered - after being apprehended - on the street. This trial isn't about whether George Floyd was guilty of anything, this trial is about whether Derek Chauvin is guilty or not.
Yet it's often portrayed as if he were an innocent cherub.
News:All trade with Crabaiaia and Pikala has stopped as diplomats meet in Trenaka. Silvedanians are confused by Quentin Tarantulatino's new film, Seasonal Snackbox(This is a Bojack Horseman reference.) Weird song goes viral for making no sense.
Being president looks like the worst job in the world. -John Mulaney
by Arisyan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:29 am
by Ifreann » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:32 am
SD_Film Artists wrote:Kannap wrote:
that question is irrelevant, even if he were a criminal he shouldn't have been murdered - after being apprehended - on the street. This trial isn't about whether George Floyd was guilty of anything, this trial is about whether Derek Chauvin is guilty or not.
Yet it's often portrayed as if he were an innocent cherub.
by Alien Overlord » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:33 am
Mestovakia wrote:Alien Overlord wrote:I don't see how it makes me a babbling idiot considering my point was stated clearly and was relevant to evidence I already mentioned. I chose Robespierre and Stalin because they are examples that anyone with rudimentary knowledge of history can understand without extensive research, but my point stands. A point which quite obviously went over your head.
Yes, but the fact that you chose Robespierre and Stalin as examples didn't do your side of the debate any favours.
Walkerfort wrote:so...
Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships
butterfly effect when give a butterfly cocaine
by Western Theram » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:33 am
news:Gang of goblins charged with racketeering after gang war was interrupted.|Free Ravensburg coins the name of our animal: the Jackaroo
by SD_Film Artists » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:36 am
by Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:37 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Mestovakia wrote:
Yes, but the fact that you chose Robespierre and Stalin as examples didn't do your side of the debate any favours.
Then how about a different example?
Ted Bundy was a notorious serial killer who died by the electric chair. By many accounts the electric chair is a horrible way to die. It can cause cardiac arrest, paralyses and respiratory failure. Does he deserve your sympathy for dying this way despite his horrible crimes?
by Ifreann » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:38 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Ifreann wrote:Of course he deserves sympathy. Whether he was a bad person or not is irrelevant. How someone lived doesn't change the manner of their death.
How someone dies doesn't change the manner in which they lived. I can sympathize with the way he died, I can't sympathize with him as a person. It's possible to recognize that bad things can happen to bad people. Regardless even if Floyd was a bad person, it shouldn't have any impact on the trial (which i'm sure you'll agree with). If it's your desire to sympathize with George Floyd then that's your business, but some people do recognize his crimes in the past and can't sympathize with him, it's something that should be understood to be an opinion when it comes down to it, it shouldn't have any bearing on the trial regardless of whether the general public thinks George Floyd was an angel sent from heaven or a criminal who never desired to make amends for his crimes.
by Esalia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:39 am
Alien Overlord wrote:Mestovakia wrote:
Yes, but the fact that you chose Robespierre and Stalin as examples didn't do your side of the debate any favours.
Then how about a different example?
Ted Bundy was a notorious serial killer who died by the electric chair. By many accounts the electric chair is a horrible way to die. It can cause cardiac arrest, paralyses and respiratory failure. Does he deserve your sympathy for dying this way despite his horrible crimes?
by Insaanistan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:42 am
by Mestovakia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:45 am
by Juristonia » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:49 am
Mestovakia wrote:Can we go back to, you know, discussing the trial?
Liriena wrote:Say what you will about fascists: they are remarkably consistent even after several decades of failing spectacularly elsewhere.
Ifreann wrote:Indeed, as far as I can recall only one poster has ever supported legalising bestiality, and he was fucking his cat and isn't welcome here any more, in no small part, I imagine, because he kept going on about how he was fucking his cat.
Cannot think of a name wrote:Anyway, I'm from gold country, we grow up knowing that when people jump up and down shouting "GOLD GOLD GOLD" the gold is gone and the only money to be made is in selling shovels.
And it seems to me that cryptocurrency and NFTs and such suddenly have a whooooole lot of shovel salespeople.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Cerula, Spirit of Hope
Advertisement