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China's growing power casts doubt on US defense of Taiwan

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Glorious Hong Kong
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Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:58 am

This is actually, truly, deeply terrifying. Today, Taiwan. Tomorrow, Vietnam, the Philippines,nand Japan. Then, Chinese forces will make landfall here in Borneo and subjugate Malaysia. The country I emigrated from will swallow me and my family back up again and enthrall us under its oppressive thumb. Then, Chinese forces will march onward to Australia and New Zealand. It will NEVER end.

America alone cannot prevent an invasion of Taiwan. It is going to need all the help it can get to cripple this fascist, communist juggernaut. Australian, Japanese, Vietnamese, Philippine, and Indonesian forces must all pitch in. Perhaps the UK, France, Canada, and other countries could be willing to contribute to the Resistance. India could mount a series of border campaigns along the Himalayas to keep China distracted while the bulk of the Freedom Coalition focuses its efforts on the defense of Taiwan.

If need be, Washington should attempt to get even the Russians on board, because who's to say China won't illegally annex Mongolia, or attempt to "reclaim" parts of Russia including Vladivostok and Sakhalin Island under the guise of "combating white supremacy"? Perhaps let Russia keep parts of eastern Ukraine and formally recognize its claim to Crimea, for instance? And the Syrian failed revolution is fucked anyways. As much as it pains me to say it, the U.S. might as well compromise with Moscow on Syria and Libya. China has to be our top priority right now.

I don't care what it takes to keep Taiwan free. I don't care if it is necessary to create a buffer by invading and occupying Fujian, Zhejiang, and Guangdong provinces in order to guarantee the independence of Taiwan and the liberation of Hong Kong. I don't care if China needs to be broken up and, in the late Nekostan's words, abolished. The well-being of Chinese citizens is not my concern. The well-being of Hong Kongers and Taiwanese are my concern.

Mainland Chinese citizens brought this oppressive regime not only on themselves, but on everyone else within their vicinity, including Tibetans, Uighurs, Taiwanese, and Hong Kongers, and they only have themselves to blame for allowing radical, far-left, communist ideologues to turn their once-glorious civilization into a moral abyss of unparalleled greed, an insatiable lust for personal power and influence, and an all-around selfishness and callous disregard for their fellow human beings, not to mention a hotbed of far-right, ultranationalist, racial supremacy and territorial irredentism which is just human selfishness and entitlement manifested at the national level.

"Tibet belongs to us. It's OURS. You can't have it. We're big and strong so that makes us right and everyone else is racist for disagreeing."

In other news, a first-grader snatches a cookie from a toddler. "It's MINE", she says as she slaps and kicks the preschooler senseless and enjoys the power she has over the toddler. There is nothing whatsoever to morally or physically restrain the first-grader, so she continues to think it's OK to behave in this way. That's Chinese nationalism in a nutshell, except we're dealing with hundreds of millions of grown adults with the biggest guns to spare.

China is both a communist and a fascist state and it needs to be stopped at all costs.

Just look at the sheer number of entitled Chinese racists and nationalists who are all too willing to trample on the rights of their fellow human beings due to vague, wishy-washy, quasi-religious feelings of "national pride" and ethnic Han racial supremacy. Their vile fascist gloating over atrocities in Hong Kong and Xinjiang and their toddler nationalist temper tantrum over the mere idea that Taiwan and Hong Kong aren't a part of China make me absolutely sick to my stomach. These fascists and ultra-nationalists must PAY for their crimes. I find it very difficult to sympathize with them when their boots are crushing our necks. Hong Kong doesn't fucking belong to these fascists. Taiwan doesn't fucking belong to these fascists.

I used to be a brainwashed Chinese nationalist and I'm thoroughly ashamed of that fact. I wanted to see Taiwan and Tibet completely obliterated and its people massacred and exterminated for daring to say "we're not Chinese". Despite my dislike of the CCP even at the time, I was an agent and a fifth-columnist for Chinese imperial ambitions at home and abroad without fully realizing it. I was a useful idiot for the CCP when it came to Tibet and Taiwan. Luckily, I did not seek to harm the British locals in any way simply for the "crime" of chanting "free Tibet" and "disrespecting Chinese athletes". But I was blinded with nationalist rage and hatred, and my head was filled with all kinds of violent, genocidal, apocalyptic fantasies of what should happen to these "racist white people". Fantasies involving nukes, to be exact.

"We have hundreds of nukes ready to throw at your puny little island. What are you useless Brits going to do about it huh? We Chinese are big and strong and you racist Brits are puny and weak. Suck on it, losers. Chant "free Tibet" one more time and see what happens to you and everything that you hold dear. You're gonna fucking DIE bitches."

Classic, playground bully rhetoric and the reasoning of an evil, psychopathic villain. That's literally what I was thinking back in April 2008 during the popular unrest in Tibet, which coincided with the 2008 Beijing Olympic torch relay. I wanted to kill and hurt people for "insulting my motherland".

I was a borderline autistic, Chinese fascist and racist pig with a highly developed victimhood complex and proud of it despite not being able to speak Chinese fluently. This is the kind of insidious, intoxicating, psychopathic ideology we're dealing with courtesy of the racist, fascist, communist regime. I know what these people are like because I used to be one of them.

China is the greatest threat to freedom and world peace the world has ever encountered since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The communist regime must be utterly, completely destroyed and a democracy installed in its place. Chamberlainian appeasement DOES. NOT. WORK. This is a literal Clash of Civilizations.

China must be completely contained. It's now or never.

Just imagine if China actually failed to invade Taiwan and actually lost. The CCP's days would be numbered. Hong Kong's liberation would be inevitable at this point. This would be a huge reason to celebrate as things finally begin to return to normal in the place that I grew up and I once again have the option of moving back to Hong Kong. Things would finally go back to how they were before. A place full of fond memories. A free, cosmopolitan, multicultural city where the people actually have a say.

For that to happen, communism must end in China. Only then will Taiwan's independence be truly guaranteed.

Whether America wants it or not, China wants a war. Therefore, war is coming. If and when it does, I'll be rooting for ALL of China's enemies.

Nippon banzai. Taiwan jiayou. Advance Australia. O Canada. God bless America. Rule Britannia. Glory to Hong Kong. Free Tibet. India zindabad. Liberte. Egalite. Fraternite.

Rusozak wrote:
Saiwania wrote:I would also recommend giving Taiwan nukes, to give China its own missile crisis. If they back off from all future expansionism, an agreement can be had to let it be that Taiwan won't be nuclear armed. But so long as China wants to invade, Taiwan must be able to nuke China in retaliation if it has to come to that.


You want to... create another missile crisis that almost destroys the world? :blink:


This is actually a terrific idea. The United States must immediately supply nukes to Taiwan and point them at Beijing, Shanghai, Chongqing, and other major Chinese cities. We are already up to our necks in this shit. We have absolutely nothing to lose at this point.

Only once China has fully embraced liberal democracy can the world afford to disarm. Not one moment before then.
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:06 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Taiwan is a part of China. I hope for peaceful reunification.

No it isn't.

Infected Mushroom wrote:The problem here is the USA, they are trying to divide the Chinese people and make them fight with each other. You only have to look at a world map and ask the real question here... what is America, a North American country, doing an entire giant ocean away in Asia?

Yes, America is an imperialist. This doesn't justify the PRC attempting to deprive another nation of its right to self-determination.

Infected Mushroom wrote:At the end of the day, the PRC is minding its own business.

No it isn't.

Infected Mushroom wrote:Other countries are trying to encroach.

Sure. This still doesn't justify the PRC attempting to deprive another nation of its right to self-determination.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:10 am

Patriotic americans should appeal to president Xi to invade and liberate the USA.
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Postby Picairn » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:16 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Taiwan is a part of China. I hope for peaceful reunification.

Democratic Taiwan does not belong to Communist China. Have you ever cracked open a history book?

The problem here is the USA, they are trying to divide the Chinese people and make them fight with each other. You only have to look at a world map and ask the real question here... what is America, a North American country, doing an entire giant ocean away in Asia?

It's not like the USA protected Taiwan from three belligerent acts by the PRC or anything... Nope, just US iMpErIaLiSm.

Also what is China doing in the borders of India and the islands in South China Sea? And what is it doing in the Djibouti base? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese ... n_Djibouti

At the end of the day, the PRC is minding its own business.

Blatantly untrue with the history of three strait crises, all initiated by the PRC.

Other countries are trying to encroach. But times have changed, this isn’t the 1800s anymore. I think that’s what many governments have to understand.

Indeed, it is no longer the Age of Imperialism in the 1800s, which is why China is met with animosity and roadblocks whenever it tries to ramp up activities in the SCS or the Indian borders.
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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:46 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:-

I'm normally of the opinion that the PRC is quite dangerous but I don't know, this vitriol and hatred makes me kinda icky and more understanding of a chinese mindset.

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
You want to... create another missile crisis that almost destroys the world? :blink:


This is actually a terrific idea. The United States must immediately supply nukes to Taiwan and point them at Beijing, Shanghai, Chongqing, and other major Chinese cities. We are already up to our necks in this shit. We have absolutely nothing to lose at this point.

Only once China has fully embraced liberal democracy can the world afford to disarm. Not one moment before then.

Yes. We want nukes in the hands of Bashar al Assad and General Haftar too. They can be absolutely trusted not to use them or for them to fall into the wrong hands like entire stores of Syrian and Iraqi army equipment did into the hands of ISIS. Should we arm the Uighurs with nuclear weapons too while we're at it?
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:11 am

Odreria wrote:Patriotic americans should appeal to president Xi to invade and liberate the USA.


Nice bait.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:28 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Letting one authoritarian nuclear-armed Eurasian land empire put its boot on our allies' throats so that a different one might end up in a slightly weaker position to do almost the exact same thing seems like a mighty strange way of trying to actually make the world a better place. What’s the moral calculus on basically trading the Baltics for Taiwan, in your scenario here? It seems almost better to just do nothing and let Taipei wither on the vine, at least then we won’t have as active a hand in the coming evils.

This thread makes me feel bad for Chinese hardliners, no wonder they're so freaked out. We truly are a bloodthirsty and ignorant species.

You are under the mistaken impression that it is militarily feasible to fight both China and Russia. If we try to resist both Russian and Chinese expansionism at once, we'll just lose both.

It’s entirely feasible if we work with our allies and are good little internationalists with a sense of solidarity. You’re under the mistaken impression that it would be morally or politically feasible to surrender to either one (to say nothing of the incredible naïveté of actually believing the Russians would ever be a good ally to us, that’s an even worse joke than the Turks). If that’s the alternative, I’d rather the closest thing the planet has to some semblance of a democratic, freedom-loving power (even if we are usually just as big imperialist shitheads as them) goes down swinging. Again: if you want the world system to just be three equally malevolent actors making alliances of convenience in a struggle for money and power on a dying planet, why shouldn’t a lot of Americans just defect to the Chinese? Even abandoning the Old World for a Fortress America until we can build back our strength or something seems preferable to that. You’re basically saying you can’t even imagine a future worth living in.
Last edited by Senkaku on Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:30 am

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Odreria wrote:Patriotic americans should appeal to president Xi to invade and liberate the USA.


Nice bait.

Give it ten years and I suspect political developments here will make it feel a lot less bait-y, tbh.
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Islamic Holy Sites
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:35 am

I don't know who I think is worse, the US or China. I hope they somehow both decline (along with Russia) and let a world without superpowers exist.
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Postby Adamede » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:35 am

Senkaku wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Nice bait.

Give it ten years and I suspect political developments here will make it feel a lot less bait-y, tbh.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed but one of the few things Botha sides in American potlucks can agree on is that the PRC sucks.

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Postby Adamede » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:36 am

Islamic Holy Sites wrote:I don't know who I think is worse, the US or China. I hope they somehow both decline (along with Russia) and let a world without superpowers exist.

Lol

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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:39 am

Adamede wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Give it ten years and I suspect political developments here will make it feel a lot less bait-y, tbh.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed but one of the few things Botha sides in American potlucks can agree on is that the PRC sucks.

Along with Iran, that oil is good and worth stealing, that war is good, etc...
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:41 am

Picairn wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Taiwan is a part of China. I hope for peaceful reunification.

Democratic Taiwan does not belong to Communist China. Have you ever cracked open a history book?

Have you? I support Taiwan maintaining its sovereignty as well, but this has not always been the struggle of a freedom-loving democratic people against the evil mainland. We propped up a brutal reactionary dictatorship even after it lost the mainland to genuine popular revolution and we basically threatened to nuke them if they tried to reunite their motherland (while supplying Chiang with bombers and frogmen to continue harassing them). I’d still be pissed off about it too if I were an old mainland party man.

The problem here is the USA, they are trying to divide the Chinese people and make them fight with each other. You only have to look at a world map and ask the real question here... what is America, a North American country, doing an entire giant ocean away in Asia?

It's not like the USA protected Taiwan from three belligerent acts by the PRC or anything... Nope, just US iMpErIaLiSm.

And why did we do that? It wasn’t out of the goodness of our hearts, it’s because Taiwan blocks Chinese access to the Pacific and acts as a nice unsinkable aircraft carrier. Again: Taiwan only recently became a democracy, so we haven’t been doing this out of charity or because we’re soooo concerned about democracy. That’s the story we tell ourselves about the Third Crisis and it’s been conveniently handwaved so the public assumes that’s what we’ve always been up to, but that isn’t actually the case.
Also what is China doing in the borders of India and the islands in South China Sea? And what is it doing in the Djibouti base? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese ... n_Djibouti

The same things we’re doing in the borders of Russia and the islands in the Eastern Pacific and Diego Garcia and Niger? Being an imperialist power, projecting force onto the high seas and the borders of its enemies?

At the end of the day, the PRC is minding its own business.

Blatantly untrue with the history of three strait crises, all initiated by the PRC.

You do understand that the PRC came to power in a mass revolution against the government that’s still ruled Taiwan for most of its history as a de facto independent state, right?

Other countries are trying to encroach. But times have changed, this isn’t the 1800s anymore. I think that’s what many governments have to understand.

Indeed, it is no longer the Age of Imperialism in the 1800s, which is why China is met with animosity and roadblocks whenever it tries to ramp up activities in the SCS or the Indian borders.

I don’t believe the Chinese should be allowed to take Taiwan, but this is such an unfair and uncomplicated portrayal, and it really frustrates me when Americans are unwilling to acknowledge the very real role of our own imperial activities in creating this mess or that this might not be quite as cut-and-dried as the Scramble for Africa. The mainland has good reason to feel aggrieved, and while I think ultimately they should let it go and accept the Taiwanese people’s right to self-determination, I think too many Westerners are way too quick to dismiss and avoid trying to understand the depth of feeling about the issue in China and where it springs from.
Last edited by Senkaku on Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:43 am

Islamic Holy Sites wrote:
Adamede wrote:Don’t know if you’ve noticed but one of the few things Botha sides in American potlucks can agree on is that the PRC sucks.

Along with Iran, that oil is good and worth stealing, that war is good, etc...

I’m not about just the political parties dude.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:45 am

Adamede wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Give it ten years and I suspect political developments here will make it feel a lot less bait-y, tbh.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed but one of the few things Botha sides in American potlucks can agree on is that the PRC sucks.

Yes, rabid Sinophobia has a long and storied tradition of bipartisanship and transcending political divisions, I know. Anyways, what I meant is I suspect the situation here is going to destabilize further in the coming years and decades, so we may get to a point sooner than you’d expect where a Chinese liberation won’t sound like the worst idea in the world.
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Islamic Holy Sites
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Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:48 am

Adamede wrote:
Islamic Holy Sites wrote:Along with Iran, that oil is good and worth stealing, that war is good, etc...

I’m not about just the political parties dude.

Well, most americans think those things.
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Postby Adamede » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:51 am

Senkaku wrote:
Adamede wrote:Don’t know if you’ve noticed but one of the few things Botha sides in American potlucks can agree on is that the PRC sucks.

Yes, rabid Sinophobia has a long and storied tradition of bipartisanship and transcending political divisions, I know. Anyways, what I meant is I suspect the situation here is going to destabilize further in the coming years and decades, so we may get to a point sooner than you’d expect where a Chinese liberation won’t sound like the worst idea in the world.

Yah no.

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Postby Adamede » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:53 am

Islamic Holy Sites wrote:
Adamede wrote:I’m not about just the political parties dude.

Well, most americans think those things.

Yes, that’s why the Iraq war was so divisive, because Americans are a hive mind.

By that metric all Muslims, or at least all Arabs are fundamentalists that are okay with flying airplanes into buildings and waging jihad against the nonbelievers.
Last edited by Adamede on Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:58 am

Picairn wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:The problem here is the USA, they are trying to divide the Chinese people and make them fight with each other. You only have to look at a world map and ask the real question here... what is America, a North American country, doing an entire giant ocean away in Asia?

It's not like the USA protected Taiwan from three belligerent acts by the PRC or anything... Nope, just US iMpErIaLiSm.

Also what is China doing in the borders of India and the islands in South China Sea? And what is it doing in the Djibouti base? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese ... n_Djibouti


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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:02 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Taiwan is a part of China. I hope for peaceful reunification.

The problem here is the USA, they are trying to divide the Chinese people and make them fight with each other. You only have to look at a world map and ask the real question here... what is America, a North American country, doing an entire giant ocean away in Asia?

At the end of the day, the PRC is minding its own business. Other countries are trying to encroach. But times have changed, this isn’t the 1800s anymore. I think that’s what many governments have to understand.

I think if the Taiwanese people wanted to reunify with the PRC they would’ve done so by now.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:06 am

Adamede wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Taiwan is a part of China. I hope for peaceful reunification.

The problem here is the USA, they are trying to divide the Chinese people and make them fight with each other. You only have to look at a world map and ask the real question here... what is America, a North American country, doing an entire giant ocean away in Asia?

At the end of the day, the PRC is minding its own business. Other countries are trying to encroach. But times have changed, this isn’t the 1800s anymore. I think that’s what many governments have to understand.

I think if the Taiwanese people wanted to reunify with the PRC they would’ve done so by now.

Again: do you think Taiwan has been some sort of peaceful democracy since ‘49?? Like yes, they are now, and they still deserve their self-determination as a result, but for most of the life of their polity, they’ve been living under a brutal anti-communist dictatorship, so even if they wanted to reunify it would’ve been totally impossible. Please crack a book and display some understanding of the complexity of the situation.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:31 am

Senkaku wrote:
Adamede wrote:I think if the Taiwanese people wanted to reunify with the PRC they would’ve done so by now.

Again: do you think Taiwan has been some sort of peaceful democracy since ‘49?? Like yes, they are now, and they still deserve their self-determination as a result, but for most of the life of their polity, they’ve been living under a brutal anti-communist dictatorship, so even if they wanted to reunify it would’ve been totally impossible. Please crack a book and display some understanding of the complexity of the situation.

Quite honestly, it's the same with South Korea. They too have only become democratic in recent decades. Same with Indonesia. Many of the governments the US supported were anti communist dictatorships and they only recently became democracies as is the case with Taiwan.

It's a very complex situation; I agree with you. This whole conflict is really a continuation of the Chinese Civil War as it is legally still happening even if there is no military combat. Interesting enough, unlike the Korean War, not even an armistice was signed but yet fighting practically stopped.

So what we have here is 2 Chinas competing to be the better China. It isn't West or east or north or south, but definitely a similar situation.

So while I too support Taiwanese independence, it won't sit well with either the PRC or ROC (the entity itself).
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Pasong Tirad
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:33 am

Jolthig wrote:So what we have here is 2 Chinas competing to be the better China. It isn't West or east or north or south, but definitely a similar situation.

So while I too support Taiwanese independence, it won't sit well with either the PRC or ROC (the entity itself).

This is where I'm going to disagree with you here. A significant - and quickly growing - population in Taiwan are starting to see themselves as distinctly Taiwanese rather than Chinese, and are disconnected from the Cold War-era battle between which Republic of China is the correct one. I'll wager support for creating an independent Republic of Taiwan will only grow as the years go by.

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Jolthig
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:36 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Jolthig wrote:So what we have here is 2 Chinas competing to be the better China. It isn't West or east or north or south, but definitely a similar situation.

So while I too support Taiwanese independence, it won't sit well with either the PRC or ROC (the entity itself).

This is where I'm going to disagree with you here. A significant - and quickly growing - population in Taiwan are starting to see themselves as distinctly Taiwanese rather than Chinese, and are disconnected from the Cold War-era battle between which Republic of China is the correct one. I'll wager support for creating an independent Republic of Taiwan will only grow as the years go by.

I think you misunderstood me, or I didn't word it right.

Yes, the situation, is definitely 2 Chinas fighting one another legally, and historically. Yet, the circumstances have changed. Now, it's the Taiwanese people wanting independence, which I support.
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Pasong Tirad
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Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:36 am

Jolthig wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:This is where I'm going to disagree with you here. A significant - and quickly growing - population in Taiwan are starting to see themselves as distinctly Taiwanese rather than Chinese, and are disconnected from the Cold War-era battle between which Republic of China is the correct one. I'll wager support for creating an independent Republic of Taiwan will only grow as the years go by.

I think you misunderstood me, or I didn't word it right.

Yes, the situation, is definitely 2 Chinas fighting one another legally, and historically. Yet, the circumstances have changed. Now, it's the Taiwanese people wanting independence, which I support.

I definitely might have misunderstood you. Ah well no harm no foul.

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