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China's growing power casts doubt on US defense of Taiwan

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Orostan
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Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:43 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:
Divided Wastelands of America wrote:Biden is in the Pocket of Ping, so he won't do anything but a Token Gesture at best,


In Chinese, the surname comes first followed by the generation name and finally the given name. Xi is his surname. My own Chinese name follows this format.

Biden's approach is much more subtle in terms of anti-China rhetoric, yet equally if not more meaningful in substance, in stark contrast to the the Trump administration's much more forceful, bombastic, and inspirational anti-China rhetoric. In all fairness, Joe Biden seems to be doing a far better job of standing up to China than any of his predecessors, Republican or Democrat alike, although Donald Trump was the first president to really signal a major foreign policy shift of any sort, although much of this was guided by his much more informed and principled Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, rather than his own personal, ever-changing whims. Were it not for Pompeo and the coronavirus, Trump would never have adopted such a hard line in the first place. His Democratic successor is merely building on his China policy in a way that I happen to approve of. For this reason alone, my overall opinion of Joe Biden tends to be more neutral than negative.

Biden just needs to make sure the United States doesn't take its eye off of Taiwan while attempting to deal with the sudden buildup of Russian troops along the border with Ukraine, because the civilized democracies of the world can't take on both Russia and China simultaneously. Washington must remind Moscow that China has historical claims to parts of Russia and the Russians need to literally watch their backs or risk a repeat of the disastrous 1905 Russo-Japanese War, only with China instead of Japan as their enemy. Washington must also ensure that the MSM continues to keep one eye on Beijing at all times because the CCP will always take advantage of any gaps in international media coverage in order to advance its agenda in Occupied East Turkestan, Hong Kong, or Taiwan. The amoeba will simply continue to grow and grow unchecked.

Joe Biden must do what I called on his predecessor to do: formally recognize and establish official diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Deliver nukes to Taiwan and point them at Beijing, Shanghai, and other Chinese cities. Station U.S. forces in substantial numbers on and around the island to deter Chinese military aggression.

My god, are you insane? Stationing nukes in Taiwan would be an incredible act of aggression and a massive escalation. It’s like China putting nukes to aim at the USA in Mexico. It makes the probability of someone making a mistake a destroying the world much higher for no reason. Taiwan is a province of China and both the PRC and ROC (Taiwan) believe this anyways, recognizing Taiwan is pointless diplomatically if Taiwan says Taiwan isn’t a country.

Furthermore China and Russia have no reason to fight each other as China doesn’t even claim territory the Qing dynasty had. They have their problems but both have no reason to fight a war.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:46 am

Orostan wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:
In Chinese, the surname comes first followed by the generation name and finally the given name. Xi is his surname. My own Chinese name follows this format.

Biden's approach is much more subtle in terms of anti-China rhetoric, yet equally if not more meaningful in substance, in stark contrast to the the Trump administration's much more forceful, bombastic, and inspirational anti-China rhetoric. In all fairness, Joe Biden seems to be doing a far better job of standing up to China than any of his predecessors, Republican or Democrat alike, although Donald Trump was the first president to really signal a major foreign policy shift of any sort, although much of this was guided by his much more informed and principled Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, rather than his own personal, ever-changing whims. Were it not for Pompeo and the coronavirus, Trump would never have adopted such a hard line in the first place. His Democratic successor is merely building on his China policy in a way that I happen to approve of. For this reason alone, my overall opinion of Joe Biden tends to be more neutral than negative.

Biden just needs to make sure the United States doesn't take its eye off of Taiwan while attempting to deal with the sudden buildup of Russian troops along the border with Ukraine, because the civilized democracies of the world can't take on both Russia and China simultaneously. Washington must remind Moscow that China has historical claims to parts of Russia and the Russians need to literally watch their backs or risk a repeat of the disastrous 1905 Russo-Japanese War, only with China instead of Japan as their enemy. Washington must also ensure that the MSM continues to keep one eye on Beijing at all times because the CCP will always take advantage of any gaps in international media coverage in order to advance its agenda in Occupied East Turkestan, Hong Kong, or Taiwan. The amoeba will simply continue to grow and grow unchecked.

Joe Biden must do what I called on his predecessor to do: formally recognize and establish official diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Deliver nukes to Taiwan and point them at Beijing, Shanghai, and other Chinese cities. Station U.S. forces in substantial numbers on and around the island to deter Chinese military aggression.

My god, are you insane? Stationing nukes in Taiwan would be an incredible act of aggression and a massive escalation. It’s like China putting nukes to aim at the USA in Mexico. It makes the probability of someone making a mistake a destroying the world much higher for no reason. Taiwan is a province of China and both the PRC and ROC (Taiwan) believe this anyways, recognizing Taiwan is pointless diplomatically if Taiwan says Taiwan isn’t a country.

Furthermore China and Russia have no reason to fight each other as China doesn’t even claim territory the Qing dynasty had. They have their problems but both have no reason to fight a war.

A second Cuban Missile Crisis isnt in the best interests for ANYONE. One bad move and the whole world could go boom

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Orostan
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Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:50 am

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Orostan wrote:My god, are you insane? Stationing nukes in Taiwan would be an incredible act of aggression and a massive escalation. It’s like China putting nukes to aim at the USA in Mexico. It makes the probability of someone making a mistake a destroying the world much higher for no reason. Taiwan is a province of China and both the PRC and ROC (Taiwan) believe this anyways, recognizing Taiwan is pointless diplomatically if Taiwan says Taiwan isn’t a country.

Furthermore China and Russia have no reason to fight each other as China doesn’t even claim territory the Qing dynasty had. They have their problems but both have no reason to fight a war.

A second Cuban Missile Crisis isnt in the best interests for ANYONE. One bad move and the whole world could go boom

Exactly! How is this even being seriously thought of as a good thing?
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:53 am

Orostan wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:A second Cuban Missile Crisis isnt in the best interests for ANYONE. One bad move and the whole world could go boom

Exactly! How is this even being seriously thought of as a good thing?

haha posadas go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Orostan
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Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:59 am

Atheris wrote:
Orostan wrote:Exactly! How is this even being seriously thought of as a good thing?

haha posadas go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Nuclear war isn’t a joke.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:59 am

Orostan wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:A second Cuban Missile Crisis isnt in the best interests for ANYONE. One bad move and the whole world could go boom

Exactly! How is this even being seriously thought of as a good thing?
It will not impede communism.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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Orostan
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Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:01 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:Exactly! How is this even being seriously thought of as a good thing?
It will not impede communism.

Being dead will.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:04 am

Orostan wrote:
Kubra wrote: It will not impede communism.

Being dead will.
Nuclear war equals revolutionary war. It will damage humanity but it will not – it cannot – destroy the level of consciousness reached by it. Humanity will quickly pass through nuclear war into a new human society. After the destruction commences the masses are going to emerge in all countries – in a short time, in a few hours.
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:06 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:Exactly! How is this even being seriously thought of as a good thing?
It will not impede communism.

I guess in the sense that it’ll send everyone back to communal stone age tribes sure.
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The Dauntless Union
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Postby The Dauntless Union » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:08 am

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Orostan wrote:My god, are you insane? Stationing nukes in Taiwan would be an incredible act of aggression and a massive escalation. It’s like China putting nukes to aim at the USA in Mexico. It makes the probability of someone making a mistake a destroying the world much higher for no reason. Taiwan is a province of China and both the PRC and ROC (Taiwan) believe this anyways, recognizing Taiwan is pointless diplomatically if Taiwan says Taiwan isn’t a country.

Furthermore China and Russia have no reason to fight each other as China doesn’t even claim territory the Qing dynasty had. They have their problems but both have no reason to fight a war.

A second Cuban Missile Crisis isnt in the best interests for ANYONE. One bad move and the whole world could go boom

What's to say the next Stanislav Petrov makes the right move?
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Orostan
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Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:08 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:Being dead will.
Nuclear war equals revolutionary war. It will damage humanity but it will not – it cannot – destroy the level of consciousness reached by it. Humanity will quickly pass through nuclear war into a new human society. After the destruction commences the masses are going to emerge in all countries – in a short time, in a few hours.

No, a post-nuclear would if it exists would be dominated by the worst fascist dictatorships imaginable. Maybe it would wake people up - if people are left.

A nuclear war would mean the death of most people on earth and possibly all of them. I don’t think that is the most efficient means to achieve communism.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:11 am

Orostan wrote:
Kubra wrote: Nuclear war equals revolutionary war. It will damage humanity but it will not – it cannot – destroy the level of consciousness reached by it. Humanity will quickly pass through nuclear war into a new human society. After the destruction commences the masses are going to emerge in all countries – in a short time, in a few hours.

No, a post-nuclear would if it exists would be dominated by the worst fascist dictatorships imaginable. Maybe it would wake people up - if people are left.

A nuclear war would mean the death of most people on earth and possibly all of them. I don’t think that is the most efficient means to achieve communism.

Lol. Not even fascism would survive in that environment. At best it’s the rebirth of feudalism.
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Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:16 am

Adamede wrote:
Orostan wrote:No, a post-nuclear would if it exists would be dominated by the worst fascist dictatorships imaginable. Maybe it would wake people up - if people are left.

A nuclear war would mean the death of most people on earth and possibly all of them. I don’t think that is the most efficient means to achieve communism.

Lol. Not even fascism would survive in that environment. At best it’s the rebirth of feudalism.

You have no idea how much dying would be preferable to living in the current timeline, where even a little bit of stimulus elicits cries of "zomg inflation bomb" from chief capitalists.

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:17 am

Orostan wrote:
Kubra wrote: Nuclear war equals revolutionary war. It will damage humanity but it will not – it cannot – destroy the level of consciousness reached by it. Humanity will quickly pass through nuclear war into a new human society. After the destruction commences the masses are going to emerge in all countries – in a short time, in a few hours.

No, a post-nuclear would if it exists would be dominated by the worst fascist dictatorships imaginable. Maybe it would wake people up - if people are left.

A nuclear war would mean the death of most people on earth and possibly all of them. I don’t think that is the most efficient means to achieve communism.
A preview of how the proletariat is going to enter the nuclear war shows already in the conduct of the masses of Vietnam, of the Middle East, and of anywhere indeed. The proletariat gives constant demonstrations that it does not let itself be bullied, wiped out or debilitated. It is going to enter the atomic war with the all vigour it displays in the class struggle. The americans threatened to use atomic weapons against Vietnam, but the proletariat did not quake. It went on supporting Vietnam and encouraged it to fight on.

The mayhem and monstrous capitalist crimes that will mark the start of the nuclear war will be immediately followed by the proletariat moving into action. The proletariat will embark upon social reorganisation. It will draw together what is left of the world populations and make a ruling class with it. In that process, its intervention will focus on the liquidation of every remnant, if any, of capitalism and bureaucracy.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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Nevertopia
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Postby Nevertopia » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:19 am

Jolthig wrote:
WASHINGTON — China's massive arms buildup has raised doubts about America's ability to defend Taiwan if a war broke out, reflecting a shifting balance of power in the Pacific where American forces once dominated, U.S. officials and experts say.

In simulated combat in which China attempts to invade Taiwan, the results are sobering and the United States often loses, said David Ochmanek, a former senior Defense Department official who helps run war games for the Pentagon at the RAND Corp. think tank.

In tabletop exercises with America as the "blue team" facing off against a "red team" resembling China, Taiwan's air force is wiped out within minutes, U.S. air bases across the Pacific come under attack, and American warships and aircraft are held at bay by the long reach of China's vast missile arsenal, he said.

"Even when the blue teams in our simulations and war games intervened in a determined way, they don't always succeed in defeating the invasion," Ochmanek said.

A war over Taiwan remains a worst-case scenario that officials say is not imminent. But China's growing military prowess, coupled with its aggressive rhetoric, is turning Taiwan into a potential flashpoint between Beijing and Washington — and a test case for how the U.S. will confront China's superpower ambitions.

The outgoing head of the U.S. military's Indo-Pacific Command, Adm. Philip Davidson, warned senators this month that the U.S. is losing its military edge over China, and that Beijing could decide to try to seize control of Taiwan by force by 2027.

"We are accumulating risk that may embolden China to unilaterally change the status quo before our forces may be able to deliver an effective response," the admiral told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Taiwan is clearly one of their ambitions. ... And I think the threat is manifest during this decade, in fact, in the next six years."

U.S. intelligence analysts have warned for more than a decade that China's military strength was progressing at a dramatic pace, and that America's superiority was evaporating in the Pacific, Defense officials told NBC News. Only now has the message finally hit home, with simulated battles driving home the point.

"You bring in lieutenant colonels and commanders, and you subject them for three or four days to this war game. They get their asses kicked, and they have a visceral reaction to it," Ochmanek said. "You can see the learning happen."

Twenty years ago, China had no chance of successfully challenging the U.S. military in the Taiwan Strait, and Pentagon planners could count on near total air superiority and the ability to move aircraft carriers close to Taiwan's eastern coast.

But a more prosperous China has invested in new naval ships, warplanes, cyber and space weapons and a massive arsenal of ballistic and cruise missiles designed to undercut the U.S. military's sea and air power.

"When you look at the numbers and ranges of systems that China deploys, it's pretty easy to deduce what their main target is because pretty much everything they build can hit Taiwan. And a lot of stuff they build really can only hit Taiwan," said David Shlapak, a senior defense researcher at the RAND Corp. think tank who also has worked on war-gaming models involving China.

Every generation of Chinese missiles has "longer and longer ranges on them," said one senior Defense official, and the missiles present a growing dilemma for the U.S. in how to penetrate the area around Taiwan, the official said.

Sowing doubts
Even if China refrains from direct military action on Taiwan, U.S. officials and analysts worry that Beijing could eventually force Taipei to buckle through steady military and economic pressure that creates a perception that the U.S. can't guarantee the island's defense.

"At some point does China have enough military capability to push the Taiwanese into some sort of settlement, where you never get into a fight, but it's just that threat hanging over the head of Taiwan?" the Defense official said.

If China succeeded in subjugating democratic-ruled Taiwan, it would send shockwaves through America's network of alliances, and cause other democratic governments in Asia to doubt Washington's reliability and strength, officials and experts said.

China views the self-governed island as part of its own territory and has never renounced the possible use of force to bring it under Beijing's control. China's political leadership sees reunification with Taiwan as a core objective, and Beijing's actions and statements have grown more assertive in recent months.

When contacted by NBC News, China's embassy in Washington pointed to recent comments from foreign ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian, who accused the United States of adopting a Cold War mentality and overstating tensions over Taiwan.

"By exploiting the Taiwan question to exaggerate China's military threat, some people in the United States are actually looking for excuses to justify the increase of the U.S. military expenditure, expansion of its military power" and interference in regional affairs, the spokesperson said.

"The United States should abandon the Cold War zero-sum mentality, view China's development and national defense development objectively and rationally, and do more things that are conducive to mutual trust between China and the United States and regional peace and stability," he said.

Starting in June, China started regularly flying fighter jets and bombers across the median line in the strait separating mainland China and Taiwan, and into Taiwan's Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). The flights have forced Taipei to scramble its fighter planes to intercept the Chinese aircraft.

The Chinese military flights are part of a campaign of pressure tactics designed to wear down Taiwan's small air force, the Defense official said, adding: "From Taiwan's perspective, there's a level of fatigue associated with this."

Taiwan has reported a series of aviation mishaps in recent months, raising questions about whether China's encroachment was having an impact on Taiwan's air crews. Two Taiwanese fighter planes crashed on March 22 in the third such incident in six months.

The U.S. Navy, meanwhile, has sent guided-missile destroyers through the Taiwan Strait three times since Biden took office, and the U.S. Air Force flew B-52 bombers to a base in Guam last month to "reinforce the rules-based international order in the Indo-Pacific region."

The United States is committed by law to providing Taiwan with the means to maintain its self-defense, and successive presidents have approved arms sales to the island, including F-16 fighter jets and Patriot missile batteries.

But Ochmanek and other analysts argue that Taiwan — and the United States — need lower-tech weapons to fend off a potential Chinese invasion, and that big-ticket items like fighter jets and Patriot missiles will prove useless in the event of a Chinese assault.

"They've invested a lot of money in Patriot missiles. Those Patriot missiles are going to die in the first few hours of the war," Ochmanek said. The same goes for fighter jets on the runway targeted by potential Chinese missile salvoes, he and other experts said.

Ochmanek argues Taiwan should invest in mines, drones and mobile anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles that could slow a Chinese amphibious and airborne invasion, providing precious time for U.S. help to arrive.

Although senior military officers mostly agree that Taiwan and the U.S. need to adapt to the risks posed by China, it’s not clear if Congress or the Pentagon would be ready to give up purchasing more fighter jets or other expensive hardware to free up money for alternative weapons.

"We are acutely aware of the threat posed by China's military build-up, as well as its aggressive behavior in Taiwan's vicinity," said a spokesperson for Taiwan's mission in Washington, the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States.

"These actions threaten peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait, and are part of a broader pattern of Chinese attempts to intimidate countries in the Indo-Pacific region," it said.

"Taiwan has increased our defense spending commensurate with these challenges," the spokesperson said, and the island has plans to bolster investments into "asymmetric capabilities."

U.S. military officers in the Pacific say the Pentagon needs to shift more weapons and resources to Asia and transform its mindset to take on China. Without a change in U.S. weapons and tactics, the American military could find itself at a disadvantage in Taiwan and across the Pacific, potentially undermining the confidence of allies and partners that look to Washington as a counterweight to China, Defense officials said.

"If we make no changes in posture, then absolutely, you're going to find a future where we're simply outmatched," a second Defense official said.

"You can't just maintain the same static line of forces that we have currently assigned, particularly west of the International Date Line. That will not do the job."

The Pentagon declined to comment.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... cna1262148

...And there you have it, folks. The declining power of the US and the growing might in China. We are seeing history repeat itself, here. Empires are shifting and Taiwan is no doubt an ambition for itself to conquer. This would be an injury to US pride, being the world policeman which is why Taiwan is priority for us. None of us want war, but it seems to be more inevitable within the next few decades.

China will do whatever it can to win this competition whether through military or economic might as it already has been doing. They'll use politics & rhetoric to get their way in world affairs. Taiwan is a special case.

The only "good" that would come out of this if war does ensure somehow, is the Chinese Civil War would conclude as much like the Korean War, it technically still on a legal basis is still happening despite no fighting as both the ROC & PRC view one another as rebels against the state that must be suppressed.

I just hope and pray things turn for the best no matter what.


honestly we should just get this over with and start a world war with china already. Not with bombs mind you but a coalition of free nations banding together to cut economic ties with China until they're either bled financially dry or the chinese people are able to rise up against evil winnie the pooh and establish a real people's democracy.
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Orostan
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Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:No, a post-nuclear would if it exists would be dominated by the worst fascist dictatorships imaginable. Maybe it would wake people up - if people are left.

A nuclear war would mean the death of most people on earth and possibly all of them. I don’t think that is the most efficient means to achieve communism.
A preview of how the proletariat is going to enter the nuclear war shows already in the conduct of the masses of Vietnam, of the Middle East, and of anywhere indeed. The proletariat gives constant demonstrations that it does not let itself be bullied, wiped out or debilitated. It is going to enter the atomic war with the all vigour it displays in the class struggle. The americans threatened to use atomic weapons against Vietnam, but the proletariat did not quake. It went on supporting Vietnam and encouraged it to fight on.

The mayhem and monstrous capitalist crimes that will mark the start of the nuclear war will be immediately followed by the proletariat moving into action. The proletariat will embark upon social reorganisation. It will draw together what is left of the world populations and make a ruling class with it. In that process, its intervention will focus on the liquidation of every remnant, if any, of capitalism and bureaucracy.

I doubt that but I hope you’re right.

Nevertopia wrote:
Jolthig wrote:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... cna1262148

...And there you have it, folks. The declining power of the US and the growing might in China. We are seeing history repeat itself, here. Empires are shifting and Taiwan is no doubt an ambition for itself to conquer. This would be an injury to US pride, being the world policeman which is why Taiwan is priority for us. None of us want war, but it seems to be more inevitable within the next few decades.

China will do whatever it can to win this competition whether through military or economic might as it already has been doing. They'll use politics & rhetoric to get their way in world affairs. Taiwan is a special case.

The only "good" that would come out of this if war does ensure somehow, is the Chinese Civil War would conclude as much like the Korean War, it technically still on a legal basis is still happening despite no fighting as both the ROC & PRC view one another as rebels against the state that must be suppressed.

I just hope and pray things turn for the best no matter what.


honestly we should just get this over with and start a world war with china already. Not with bombs mind you but a coalition of free nations banding together to cut economic ties with China until they're either bled financially dry or the chinese people are able to rise up against evil winnie the pooh and establish a real people's democracy.

Are you a lunatic as well? Much of the world relies on China economically, to just sever those ties would be impossible. If your “peaceful” solution isn’t possible than what do you want?
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15576
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:27 am

Orostan wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
honestly we should just get this over with and start a world war with china already. Not with bombs mind you but a coalition of free nations banding together to cut economic ties with China until they're either bled financially dry or the chinese people are able to rise up against evil winnie the pooh and establish a real people's democracy.

Are you a lunatic as well? Much of the world relies on China economically, to just sever those ties would be impossible. If your “peaceful” solution isn’t possible than what do you want?

Do you also complain like this when surgeons cut malignant tumours away from patients? Economic separation from PRC is a must or we will all soon be swallowed up in its imperialist-colonialist endeavours.

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Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14392
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:28 am

Orostan wrote:
Kubra wrote: A preview of how the proletariat is going to enter the nuclear war shows already in the conduct of the masses of Vietnam, of the Middle East, and of anywhere indeed. The proletariat gives constant demonstrations that it does not let itself be bullied, wiped out or debilitated. It is going to enter the atomic war with the all vigour it displays in the class struggle. The americans threatened to use atomic weapons against Vietnam, but the proletariat did not quake. It went on supporting Vietnam and encouraged it to fight on.

The mayhem and monstrous capitalist crimes that will mark the start of the nuclear war will be immediately followed by the proletariat moving into action. The proletariat will embark upon social reorganisation. It will draw together what is left of the world populations and make a ruling class with it. In that process, its intervention will focus on the liquidation of every remnant, if any, of capitalism and bureaucracy.

I doubt that but I hope you’re right.
OOC: whoa there friend, "I hope you're right" is a dangerous step towards drinking the kool-aid. "I want to believe" becomes "humans can definitely talk to dolphins, and can teach them about surplus-value."
I mean, shit you wanna know how the guy figured this shit? ww1 made a socialist state, ww2 made more socialist states, no surely nuclear annihilation will make *more*.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2930
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:31 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Adamede wrote:Lol. Not even fascism would survive in that environment. At best it’s the rebirth of feudalism.

You have no idea how much dying would be preferable to living in the current timeline, where even a little bit of stimulus elicits cries of "zomg inflation bomb" from chief capitalists.

So why the fuck are you here then? If death is so preferable why not make that decision for yourself.

If life is truly that terrible there’s no reason to advocate for the deaths of billions of people, because they’d off themselves all on their own.
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Orostan
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Posts: 5429
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:32 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:I doubt that but I hope you’re right.
OOC: whoa there friend, "I hope you're right" is a dangerous step towards drinking the kool-aid. "I want to believe" becomes "humans can definitely talk to dolphins, and can teach them about surplus-value."
I mean, shit you wanna know how the guy figured this shit? ww1 made a socialist state, ww2 made more socialist states, no surely nuclear annihilation will make *more*.

lol I know. I just want something good to come out of the future, whatever future that might be. Even though Posadas was absolutely bonkers and wrong it would be good if he wasn’t.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2930
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:32 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:No, a post-nuclear would if it exists would be dominated by the worst fascist dictatorships imaginable. Maybe it would wake people up - if people are left.

A nuclear war would mean the death of most people on earth and possibly all of them. I don’t think that is the most efficient means to achieve communism.
A preview of how the proletariat is going to enter the nuclear war shows already in the conduct of the masses of Vietnam, of the Middle East, and of anywhere indeed. The proletariat gives constant demonstrations that it does not let itself be bullied, wiped out or debilitated. It is going to enter the atomic war with the all vigour it displays in the class struggle. The americans threatened to use atomic weapons against Vietnam, but the proletariat did not quake. It went on supporting Vietnam and encouraged it to fight on.

The mayhem and monstrous capitalist crimes that will mark the start of the nuclear war will be immediately followed by the proletariat moving into action. The proletariat will embark upon social reorganisation. It will draw together what is left of the world populations and make a ruling class with it. In that process, its intervention will focus on the liquidation of every remnant, if any, of capitalism and bureaucracy.

Lol
21yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14392
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:33 am

Orostan wrote:
Kubra wrote: OOC: whoa there friend, "I hope you're right" is a dangerous step towards drinking the kool-aid. "I want to believe" becomes "humans can definitely talk to dolphins, and can teach them about surplus-value."
I mean, shit you wanna know how the guy figured this shit? ww1 made a socialist state, ww2 made more socialist states, no surely nuclear annihilation will make *more*.

lol I know. I just want something good to come out of the future, whatever future that might be. Even though Posadas was absolutely bonkers and wrong it would be good if he wasn’t.
No it wouldn't. I don't want a future in which we have the genitalia of barbie dolls and reproduce by division.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5429
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:37 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:lol I know. I just want something good to come out of the future, whatever future that might be. Even though Posadas was absolutely bonkers and wrong it would be good if he wasn’t.
No it wouldn't. I don't want a future in which we have the genitalia of barbie dolls and reproduce by division.

I’m sorry, what the fuck? Did posadas believe this? It wouldn’t be the most insane thing he believed.
Last edited by Orostan on Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14392
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:40 am

Orostan wrote:
Kubra wrote: No it wouldn't. I don't want a future in which we have the genitalia of barbie dolls and reproduce by division.

I’m sorry, what the fuck? Did posadas believe this? It wouldn’t be the most insane thing he believed.
It wouldn't be the weirdest thing that a marxist grouplet ever believed. Well, maybe weirdest, but certainly not the most harmful of the weird.
The best part is where the posadists diverted funds meant for guns and ammo for, in true trotskyist fashion, newspapers in italy.
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5429
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:42 am

Kubra wrote:
Orostan wrote:I’m sorry, what the fuck? Did posadas believe this? It wouldn’t be the most insane thing he believed.
It wouldn't be the weirdest thing that a marxist grouplet ever believed. Well, maybe weirdest, but certainly not the most harmful of the weird.
The best part is where the posadists diverted funds meant for guns and ammo for, in true trotskyist fashion, newspapers in italy.

Good god what an asshat. Makes me wonder if Stalin was too soft on Trotskyism.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

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