NationStates

Divided Wastelands of America wrote:Biden is in the Pocket of Ping, so he won't do anything but a Token Gesture at best,

In Chinese, the surname comes first followed by the generation name and finally the given name. Xi is his surname. My own Chinese name follows this format.

Biden's approach is much more subtle in terms of anti-China rhetoric, yet equally if not more meaningful in substance, in stark contrast to the the Trump administration's much more forceful, bombastic, and inspirational anti-China rhetoric. In all fairness, Joe Biden seems to be doing a far better job of standing up to China than any of his predecessors, Republican or Democrat alike, although Donald Trump was the first president to really signal a major foreign policy shift of any sort, although much of this was guided by his much more informed and principled Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, rather than his own personal, ever-changing whims. Were it not for Pompeo and the coronavirus, Trump would never have adopted such a hard line in the first place. His Democratic successor is merely building on his China policy in a way that I happen to approve of. For this reason alone, my overall opinion of Joe Biden tends to be more neutral than negative.

Biden just needs to make sure the United States doesn't take its eye off of Taiwan while attempting to deal with the sudden buildup of Russian troops along the border with Ukraine, because the civilized democracies of the world can't take on both Russia and China simultaneously. Washington must remind Moscow that China has historical claims to parts of Russia and the Russians need to literally watch their backs or risk a repeat of the disastrous 1905 Russo-Japanese War, only with China instead of Japan as their enemy. Washington must also ensure that the MSM continues to keep one eye on Beijing at all times because the CCP will always take advantage of any gaps in international media coverage in order to advance its agenda in Occupied East Turkestan, Hong Kong, or Taiwan. The amoeba will simply continue to grow and grow unchecked.

Joe Biden must do what I called on his predecessor to do: formally recognize and establish official diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Deliver nukes to Taiwan and point them at Beijing, Shanghai, and other Chinese cities. Station U.S. forces in substantial numbers on and around the island to deter Chinese military aggression.

The Disorder wrote:Give Taiwan and Hong Kong nuclear weapons. Keeping the peace has never once been done without either the application of force, or the threat thereof. Yeah, it's kind of dark and fucked-up, but the world isn't a reactor that runs on love and snuggles. The price of being naive is allowing a 21st century hyper-authoritarian torture-state to invade & overtake neighboring sovereign powers.

Half the Taiwanese country is filled with CPC fifth columnists, including the army, navy and air force. It's called the KMT. Who now apparently strive for reunification at any price, even under the aegis of the CPC.
The solution in the apparent absence of American political will is to go Minoru Genda. Convince Japan to acquire the bomb and a CPC bomber and point them at Peking, and if the CPC does anything to Taiwan the Politbureau vanishes in a mushroom cloud. The Far East suddenly becomes much more polite. This would also be the biggest shift in Japanese foreign policy and social mentality since Article 9, so it'll happen when hell freezes over and PRC will continue their salami tactics virtually unopposed. Today Taiwan, tomorrow "Chongsheng".

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Are you jokeing? Biden is a puppet of the establishment dems, not the CCP. Trump was China's bitch via total failure to do anything to contain them.

It was all a show! A lie! A campaign lie to get you to vote for Trump. Everything afterwards was also just a show. The tarrfis Trump did failed to do anything. It was the Maginot Line of defending against China's cheep shit. China went around it by bulding most of the shit they sold in China then moved it to Vietnam for the last bit. Slap a made in Vietnam sticker on it and boom, tarrif bypassed.


Shitholes comment just made Africa go towards the CCP.
Google China spending in Africa.

The fact you are still here buying the bullshit proves that Trump was very good at acting like he was doing anything more then clowning around failing to stop China.

International diplomacy just doesn’t revolve around someone privately saying somethings a shithole, in the real world (outside NS and Twitter) it’s inconsequential. Personal feelings are a none-factor in diplomacy, it’s actually insulting to the intelligence of African leaders that you think they’d subjugate themselves under Chinese neocolonialism because of one remark.

China’s growing influence in Africa was not suddenly spurred on by Trump, it’s been happening for the last 11 years. If you wanted to impulsively blame people than you might put it on the entire western world which assumed China would democratise with the free market and wouldn’t be a threat.

Yes, it has been happening in the past 11 years but the "shitholes" comment seemed to just speed up China's power grab in Africa.

The comment made by Trump was in 2018, the year that China spent $60 billion in financial support to Africa.

If Trump was smart, he would have bit his tongue and invest 60$ Billion in Africa himself. He isn't, so Winnie The Pooh took the opportunity.

The privacy thing doesn't factor into this, he was the president of the United States. He was the elected leader. Public or private, what he says effects how other nations see the US.


Overall, China has just been going full throttle while Trump sat on his ass not doing anything about it. Other then, of course make himself and the US look like utter buffoons.

Divided Wastelands of America wrote:Biden is in the Pocket of Ping, so he won't do anything but a Token Gesture at best,

You fell under the spell of Trump propaganda. Trump failed to do anything about China. His tariffs are a joke, bypassed by China easily. Build most of the cheep shit in China, buld rest of it in Vietnam, get made in Vietnam sticker, no tariff applied.


My above criticism of Trump's "Shitholes" comment applies here too.

Trump has done nothing but a big show to win approval for your vote and financial support.

Stop falling for propaganda and ask yourself, what has Trump done to contain China?

The Disorder wrote:Give Taiwan and Hong Kong nuclear weapons. Keeping the peace has never once been done without either the application of force, or the threat thereof. Yeah, it's kind of dark and fucked-up, but the world isn't a reactor that runs on love and snuggles. The price of being naive is allowing a 21st century hyper-authoritarian torture-state to invade & overtake neighboring sovereign powers.

Why hasn't Taiwan or Japan acquired nuclear weapons to defend themselves against China? it's obvious that China will make a move to occupy these countries as soon as they are able to, including Hong Kong. Is it too hard for these countries to maintain nuclear weapons?

I'm not talking about developing them. Only acquiring them.

-Ocelot- wrote:

The Disorder wrote:Give Taiwan and Hong Kong nuclear weapons. Keeping the peace has never once been done without either the application of force, or the threat thereof. Yeah, it's kind of dark and fucked-up, but the world isn't a reactor that runs on love and snuggles. The price of being naive is allowing a 21st century hyper-authoritarian torture-state to invade & overtake neighboring sovereign powers.

Why hasn't Taiwan or Japan acquired nuclear weapons to defend themselves against China? it's obvious that China will make a move to occupy these countries as soon as they are able to, including Hong Kong. Is it too hard for these countries to maintain nuclear weapons?

I'm not talking about developing them. Only acquiring them.

Why hasn't Japan got nukes?

Idk might have something to do with being demilitarized and being nuked twice. Being nuked twice is probably a big negative towards geting nukes.

Taiwan with nukes sounds like great way to speedrun earth to become irl fallout.

-Ocelot- wrote:

The Disorder wrote:Give Taiwan and Hong Kong nuclear weapons. Keeping the peace has never once been done without either the application of force, or the threat thereof. Yeah, it's kind of dark and fucked-up, but the world isn't a reactor that runs on love and snuggles. The price of being naive is allowing a 21st century hyper-authoritarian torture-state to invade & overtake neighboring sovereign powers.

Why hasn't Taiwan or Japan acquired nuclear weapons to defend themselves against China? it's obvious that China will make a move to occupy these countries as soon as they are able to, including Hong Kong. Is it too hard for these countries to maintain nuclear weapons?

I'm not talking about developing them. Only acquiring them.

NPT. Also in Japan generally additional considerations. However the RoC would be legally allowed to obtain nuclear weapons since they are technically a allied victory power of WW2 (alongside US, UK, France and USSR/Russia) and thus would have a seat in the UNSC.

Nakena wrote:

-Ocelot- wrote:
Why hasn't Taiwan or Japan acquired nuclear weapons to defend themselves against China? it's obvious that China will make a move to occupy these countries as soon as they are able to, including Hong Kong. Is it too hard for these countries to maintain nuclear weapons?

I'm not talking about developing them. Only acquiring them.

NPT. Also in Japan generally additional considerations. However the RoC would be legally allowed to obtain nuclear weapons since they are technically a allied victory power of WW2 (alongside US, UK, France and USSR/Russia) and thus would have a seat in the UNSC.

Winnie the pooh took over that seat a long time ago.


I took my phone with me to an alt timeline and got this video in a world where Taiwan had nukes.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Nakena wrote:
NPT. Also in Japan generally additional considerations. However the RoC would be legally allowed to obtain nuclear weapons since they are technically a allied victory power of WW2 (alongside US, UK, France and USSR/Russia) and thus would have a seat in the UNSC.

Winnie the pooh took over that seat a long time ago.


I took my phone with me to an alt timeline and got this video in a world where Taiwan had nukes.

ROCAF would be more likely to sell their bombs to Peking than to drop them. It's literally filled with fifth columnists.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Winnie the pooh took over that seat a long time ago.


I took my phone with me to an alt timeline and got this video in a world where Taiwan had nukes.

ROCAF would be more likely to sell their bombs to Peking than to drop them. It's literally filled with fifth columnists.

Doesn't really matter, nukes in Taiwan would be Cuban missile crisis 2.0. Would most likely end the world. I'm not in favor of billions of dead people so I do not like the idea of nukes there.

Taiwans goverment is based tho. Pure democratic, low pollution, gay rights, peaceful.

Nakena wrote:

-Ocelot- wrote:
Why hasn't Taiwan or Japan acquired nuclear weapons to defend themselves against China? it's obvious that China will make a move to occupy these countries as soon as they are able to, including Hong Kong. Is it too hard for these countries to maintain nuclear weapons?

I'm not talking about developing them. Only acquiring them.

NPT. Also in Japan generally additional considerations. However the RoC would be legally allowed to obtain nuclear weapons since they are technically a allied victory power of WW2 (alongside US, UK, France and USSR/Russia) and thus would have a seat in the UNSC.

Japan's been punished enough. The government is constitutionally barred from locking down its citizens, thereby allowing the Wuhan coronavirus to spread unchecked. The current constitution was imposed by Allied Forces during the Occupation of Japan. Article 9 prohibiting nuclear proliferation and military rearmament must be scrapped ASAP. Japan needs those nukes. U.S. forces must continue to be stationed in Okinawa to deter Chinese aggression in the East China Sea. They should be stationed in Kinmen and Matsu as well.

Also, Taiwan was much better off under Japanese rule than it ever was under Chiang Kai-shek. Hong Kong was much better off under British rule than it ever has been under Xi Jinping. It's almost as if foreign imperial powers do a far better job of governing than either the CCP or the KMT. It's almost as if Nekostan e-Gharbi was right about China. Every dynasty has been nothing but trouble for ordinary peasants and laborers.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Taiwans goverment is based tho. Pure democratic, low pollution, gay rights, peaceful.

I agree completely. Tsai Ing-wen is the best president Taiwan has ever had. The DPP is liberal, LGBT-friendly, environmentally friendly, hostile to "reunification", and hostile to both communism and fascism. Tsai has been friendly with both Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

Luziyca wrote:The best solution to the current predicament of the Taiwanese Province would be for it to become a special autonomous region of the People's Republic of China. There is no real chance for it to ever reconquer China, and America's power is in decline (which is for the better, given their foreign policy in the past).

At this point, Taiwan's going to return to the Chinese motherland: the only question is whether it wants to be a special autonomous region along the lines of Macau or if it wants to be integrated as an ordinary province. The only situation in which Taiwan maintains its sovereignty in the long term would likely involve a war, which would likely suck for humanity as a whole.

Taiwan is its own motherland. Taiwan has isolated from China since 1949 and is prospering. It doesn't need China and China doesn't need it. The whole unification excuse is idiotic and for nationalistic propaganda in China.

Luziyca wrote:The only situation in which Taiwan maintains its sovereignty in the long term would likely involve a war, which would likely suck for humanity as a whole.

That's appeasement. And it's not going to stop wars.

Luziyca wrote:The best solution to the current predicament of the Taiwanese Province would be for it to become a special autonomous region of the People's Republic of China. There is no real chance for it to ever reconquer China, and America's power is in decline (which is for the better, given their foreign policy in the past).

At this point, Taiwan's going to return to the Chinese motherland: the only question is whether it wants to be a special autonomous region along the lines of Macau or if it wants to be integrated as an ordinary province. The only situation in which Taiwan maintains its sovereignty in the long term would likely involve a war, which would likely suck for humanity as a whole.

The People's Republic of China isn't even a legitimate government. Taiwan is the Chinese motherland; the Republic of China is the legitimate government of China and has been since the fall of Shikai's empire in 1916.

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Japan's been punished enough. [snip, unrelated] The current constitution was imposed by Allied Forces during the Occupation of Japan. Article 9 prohibiting nuclear proliferation and military rearmament must be scrapped ASAP

You're... aware that Japan enforced Article 9 on itself, right? The US was vocally against it.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:International diplomacy just doesn’t revolve around someone privately saying somethings a shithole, in the real world (outside NS and Twitter) it’s inconsequential. Personal feelings are a none-factor in diplomacy, it’s actually insulting to the intelligence of African leaders that you think they’d subjugate themselves under Chinese neocolonialism because of one remark.

China’s growing influence in Africa was not suddenly spurred on by Trump, it’s been happening for the last 11 years. If you wanted to impulsively blame people than you might put it on the entire western world which assumed China would democratise with the free market and wouldn’t be a threat.

Yes, it has been happening in the past 11 years but the "shitholes" comment seemed to just speed up China's power grab in Africa.

The comment made by Trump was in 2018, the year that China spent $60 billion in financial support to Africa.

If Trump was smart, he would have bit his tongue and invest 60$ Billion in Africa himself. He isn't, so Winnie The Pooh took the opportunity.

The privacy thing doesn't factor into this, he was the president of the United States. He was the elected leader. Public or private, what he says effects how other nations see the US.


Overall, China has just been going full throttle while Trump sat on his ass not doing anything about it. Other then, of course make himself and the US look like utter buffoons.

Divided Wastelands of America wrote:Biden is in the Pocket of Ping, so he won't do anything but a Token Gesture at best,

You fell under the spell of Trump propaganda. Trump failed to do anything about China. His tariffs are a joke, bypassed by China easily. Build most of the cheep shit in China, buld rest of it in Vietnam, get made in Vietnam sticker, no tariff applied.


My above criticism of Trump's "Shitholes" comment applies here too.

Trump has done nothing but a big show to win approval for your vote and financial support.

Stop falling for propaganda and ask yourself, what has Trump done to contain China?

This. Every place Trump has either criticized or abandoned in the name of MAGA isolationism, China quickly allied themselves to. Half of Africa is now a CCP colony, and ironically so will Europe in the next 5-7 years.

Atheris wrote:

Luziyca wrote:The best solution to the current predicament of the Taiwanese Province would be for it to become a special autonomous region of the People's Republic of China. There is no real chance for it to ever reconquer China, and America's power is in decline (which is for the better, given their foreign policy in the past).

At this point, Taiwan's going to return to the Chinese motherland: the only question is whether it wants to be a special autonomous region along the lines of Macau or if it wants to be integrated as an ordinary province. The only situation in which Taiwan maintains its sovereignty in the long term would likely involve a war, which would likely suck for humanity as a whole.

The People's Republic of China isn't even a legitimate government. Taiwan is the Chinese motherland; the Republic of China is the legitimate government of China and has been since the fall of Shikai's empire in 1916.

The Republic of China barely existed in reality, it was a front for warlords and collapsed primarily due to its own unfathomable incompetence rather than any kind of overwhelming communist assault.

Also this doesn't really make much sense considering that the ROC on Taiwan isn't even the same legal entity as the ROC was on the mainland. The ROC on Taiwan was founded by a group of military officers led by Chiang Kai-Shek who went rogue and abandoned the defense of the mainland to secure their little fiefdom while leaving President Li to try to salvage the situation on the mainland (which was largely caused by Chiang and his supporters allowing the Communists to win because they wanted communist victories to undermine Li Zongren's government so they could launch a military coup) by his lonesome. I have no idea why some people have a weird fetish for the ROC, it spent its entire history as a failed state and ultimately died because its leadership was never able to actually decide on or implement even the most basic national policies. The PRC's rule of the mainland has been superior by leaps and bounds to the ROC's multi-decade tenure as a failed state.

And what makes the CCP's seizure of power in a civil war less legitimate than the KMT's seizure of power in a civil war? Do people really think "how dare the PRC take what the ROC rightfully stole!" unironically?

Luziyca wrote:The best solution to the current predicament of the Taiwanese Province would be for it to become a special autonomous region of the People's Republic of China. There is no real chance for it to ever reconquer China, and America's power is in decline (which is for the better, given their foreign policy in the past).

At this point, Taiwan's going to return to the Chinese motherland: the only question is whether it wants to be a special autonomous region along the lines of Macau or if it wants to be integrated as an ordinary province. The only situation in which Taiwan maintains its sovereignty in the long term would likely involve a war, which would likely suck for humanity as a whole.

Lol

After all the shit that went on in Hong Kong you believe that’s the best decision?

Nothing is so sacred that millions of people should be subjects to a totalitarian government that they do not want. Easy for you to say otherwise when I doubt you’re the one that would have to live with the consequences.

Bear Stearns wrote:

Christian Confederation wrote:Unless we put American Nukes aimed at Red China they can take Taiwan when they please. We should have handled China during the Civil War or the Massacre in the 80s. Hell China attacked UN forces in Korea, we could have handled them then. But we didn't.
Now we have China on the Rise and America never climax. The only solution is to get our crap together and defeat them economically and/or militarily.
Australia, South Korea, India, Japan, Tiwan, and Possibly the UK are onboard to handle China. If up to me we would invade asap

Are you really willing to start World War III over Taiwan

If not Taiwan, then where is the line that we will not yield? Chinese puppeting South Korea and Japan? Chinese ships in American waters? Ceding American territory in the Pacific to the Chinese? Chinese soldiers in America?

There comes a hard line sooner or later, we might as well draw that line now.

Adamede wrote:

Bear Stearns wrote:
Are you really willing to start World War III over Taiwan

If not Taiwan, then where is the line that we will not yield? Chinese puppeting South Korea and Japan? Chinese ships in American waters? Ceding American territory in the Pacific to the Chinese? Chinese soldiers in America?

There comes a hard line sooner or later, we might as well draw that line now.

There's some delicious irony in this post.

Well, maybe had the US not thrown trillions of dollars into the black hole between Iran and Pakistan, some of that could have been spent on the South China Sea and Taiwan instead. Live and learn.

If a real war breaks out between the US and China, the whole planet is fucked. Maybe you could have limited conventional exchange for a few months without losing all hope of a bilateral ceasefire, but after that, the nukes will come out. Neither side would choose unconditional surrender over the nuclear option.

Page wrote:Well, maybe had the US not thrown trillions of dollars into the black hole between Iran and Pakistan, some of that could have been spent on the South China Sea and Taiwan instead. Live and learn.

If a real war breaks out between the US and China, the whole planet is fucked. Maybe you could have limited conventional exchange for a few months without losing all hope of a bilateral ceasefire, but after that, the nukes will come out. Neither side would choose unconditional surrender over the nuclear option.

A war in the South China Sea would not mean a nuclear exchange. Neither side has the capability or goal to force an unconditional surrender. China's goal would be to take Taiwan and the South China Sea, the US goal would be to stop that from happening. Losing, even badly, would not be an existential threat for either side.

Punished UMN wrote:

Adamede wrote:If not Taiwan, then where is the line that we will not yield? Chinese puppeting South Korea and Japan? Chinese ships in American waters? Ceding American territory in the Pacific to the Chinese? Chinese soldiers in America?

There comes a hard line sooner or later, we might as well draw that line now.

There's some delicious irony in this post.

Yah I’m aware of that. Regardless of Chinese irredentism Taiwan is an American ally in the Pacific, and China is our rival. Realpolitiks trumps consistency in the real world.

Adamede wrote:

Punished UMN wrote:There's some delicious irony in this post.

Yah I’m aware of that. Regardless of Chinese irredentism Taiwan is an American ally in the Pacific, and China is our rival. Realpolitiks trumps consistency in the real world.

If you've already accepted that, then you're intellectually not that far from the PRC's position.

Punished UMN wrote:

Adamede wrote:Yah I’m aware of that. Regardless of Chinese irredentism Taiwan is an American ally in the Pacific, and China is our rival. Realpolitiks trumps consistency in the real world.

If you've already accepted that, then you're intellectually not that far from the PRC's position.

Not really. Regardless that’s not really an insult. PRC leadership isn’t dumb, if anything the US needs to start playing the game too.

Ayytaly wrote:

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Yes, it has been happening in the past 11 years but the "shitholes" comment seemed to just speed up China's power grab in Africa.

The comment made by Trump was in 2018, the year that China spent $60 billion in financial support to Africa.

If Trump was smart, he would have bit his tongue and invest 60$ Billion in Africa himself. He isn't, so Winnie The Pooh took the opportunity.

The privacy thing doesn't factor into this, he was the president of the United States. He was the elected leader. Public or private, what he says effects how other nations see the US.


Overall, China has just been going full throttle while Trump sat on his ass not doing anything about it. Other then, of course make himself and the US look like utter buffoons.



You fell under the spell of Trump propaganda. Trump failed to do anything about China. His tariffs are a joke, bypassed by China easily. Build most of the cheep shit in China, buld rest of it in Vietnam, get made in Vietnam sticker, no tariff applied.


My above criticism of Trump's "Shitholes" comment applies here too.

Trump has done nothing but a big show to win approval for your vote and financial support.

Stop falling for propaganda and ask yourself, what has Trump done to contain China?

This. Every place Trump has either criticized or abandoned in the name of MAGA isolationism, China quickly allied themselves to. Half of Africa is now a CCP colony, and ironically so will Europe in the next 5-7 years.

Trump all but guaranteed continued Chinese dominance by torpedoing the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which was at worst a lateral economic move for the US directly, however aimed to severely curtail Chinese economic influence in the region. His "tough talk" did more harm than good with dealing with the problem of Chinese economic hegemony. It was worse than harmless, and was actively bad for our long term goals. Yes, it wasn't directly beneficial to the US in the sense we gained little directly out of it, but we also aimed to lose nothing and in return we would expand US and non-chinese economic influence.

It's also the reason why decrying sending aid to Africa and the like is shortsighted. China is more than happy to fill that gap, and expand their influence.

People think that the only reason to dislike Trump was because of hurt feelings. No, I have other major issues with his administration, which involve short sighted and reckless decisions with little concern for the long term implications.

Hell, him losing the election is probably the greatest boon he had, because all of the problems his decisions created take years to manifest, and his supporters can blame on Biden.