China's growing power casts doubt on US defense of Taiwan

[Picairn]

You did not mention that local governments are also regarded as more corrupt in China - Xi’s anti-corruption campaigns have got him support because of this.

The same campaign that employed torture and false confessions? Do the Chinese public know that accused politicians do not have the right to a fair trial? I'm guessing no.

You didn’t refute anything I said anyways or make a real argument against it.

I did, actually. The source of high public trust in the central government is carefully selected propaganda.

Do you believe Chinese people are mindless drones who believe whatever propaganda tells them to believe or so you think that Chinese people have better experiences with central government and not local government?

It is delusional to deny the effect of propaganda through mess media on the public. I'm sure you are aware that media coverage of the WMD story influenced American public opinion to go to war. Constant exposure to positive news would tilt public opinion in the favor of the central government, as noted by the author of the study himself.

[San Montalbano]

You did not mention that local governments are also regarded as more corrupt in China - Xi’s anti-corruption campaigns have got him support because of this.

The same campaign that employed torture and false confessions? Do the Chinese public know that accused politicians do not have the right to a fair trial? I'm guessing no.

You didn’t refute anything I said anyways or make a real argument against it.

I did, actually. The source of high public trust in the central government is carefully selected propaganda.

Do you believe Chinese people are mindless drones who believe whatever propaganda tells them to believe or so you think that Chinese people have better experiences with central government and not local government?

It is delusional to deny the effect of propaganda through mess media on the public. I'm sure you are aware that media coverage of the WMD story influenced American public opinion to go to war. Constant exposure to positive news would tilt public opinion in the favor of the central government, as noted by the author of the study himself.

It's simple, China takes advantage of what they percieve as weak minded liberals and SJW's to pursue fracturing the USA internally, they even have a term for these people, Baizuo. They activley support BLM and all manner of social justice groups because they know it will destroy the USA, while at home they totally crush it. It's actually very based.

[Patoro]

China is really starting to scare me now

[Orostan]

You did not mention that local governments are also regarded as more corrupt in China - Xi’s anti-corruption campaigns have got him support because of this.

The same campaign that employed torture and false confessions? Do the Chinese public know that accused politicians do not have the right to a fair trial? I'm guessing no.

You didn’t refute anything I said anyways or make a real argument against it.

I did, actually. The source of high public trust in the central government is carefully selected propaganda.

Do you believe Chinese people are mindless drones who believe whatever propaganda tells them to believe or so you think that Chinese people have better experiences with central government and not local government?

It is delusional to deny the effect of propaganda through mess media on the public. I'm sure you are aware that media coverage of the WMD story influenced American public opinion to go to war. Constant exposure to positive news would tilt public opinion in the favor of the central government, as noted by the author of the study himself.

1) hmmmm yes I’m sure the guys being accused of corruption are going to say it isn’t them and that their confessions were false if they gave them. Don’t believe everything you read in the NYT! Or, at least, have some doubt about it when it seems a little bit over the top and is against one of the USA’s official enemies.

2-3) Yes, I am aware of the WMD lie and I’m also aware that we know it’s a lie. If this is all propaganda you’d think there would be some discontent even if the Chinese people didn’t know where to direct it. There is enormous discontent in the USA despite the US having the best propagandists in the world and it comes to nothing because that propaganda can misdirect activism and people.

The same campaign that employed torture and false confessions? Do the Chinese public know that accused politicians do not have the right to a fair trial? I'm guessing no.


I did, actually. The source of high public trust in the central government is carefully selected propaganda.


It is delusional to deny the effect of propaganda through mess media on the public. I'm sure you are aware that media coverage of the WMD story influenced American public opinion to go to war. Constant exposure to positive news would tilt public opinion in the favor of the central government, as noted by the author of the study himself.

It's simple, China takes advantage of what they percieve as weak minded liberals and SJW's to pursue fracturing the USA internally, they even have a term for these people, Baizuo. They activley support BLM and all manner of social justice groups because they know it will destroy the USA, while at home they totally crush it. It's actually very based.

I can’t tell if you’re a real fascist or you’re doing a bit.

[San Montalbano]

The same campaign that employed torture and false confessions? Do the Chinese public know that accused politicians do not have the right to a fair trial? I'm guessing no.


I did, actually. The source of high public trust in the central government is carefully selected propaganda.


It is delusional to deny the effect of propaganda through mess media on the public. I'm sure you are aware that media coverage of the WMD story influenced American public opinion to go to war. Constant exposure to positive news would tilt public opinion in the favor of the central government, as noted by the author of the study himself.

1) hmmmm yes I’m sure the guys being accused of corruption are going to say it isn’t them and that their confessions were false if they gave them. Don’t believe everything you read in the NYT! Or, at least, have some doubt about it when it seems a little bit over the top and is against one of the USA’s official enemies.

2-3) Yes, I am aware of the WMD lie and I’m also aware that we know it’s a lie. If this is all propaganda you’d think there would be some discontent even if the Chinese people didn’t know where to direct it. There is enormous discontent in the USA despite the US having the best propagandists in the world and it comes to nothing because that propaganda can misdirect activism and people.

It's simple, China takes advantage of what they percieve as weak minded liberals and SJW's to pursue fracturing the USA internally, they even have a term for these people, Baizuo. They activley support BLM and all manner of social justice groups because they know it will destroy the USA, while at home they totally crush it. It's actually very based.

I can’t tell if you’re a real fascist or you’re doing a bit.

I mean that's literally what they think and how the Chinese government operates "shrug"

[San Montalbano]

They activley support BLM and all manner of social justice groups because they know it will destroy the USA, while at home they totally crush it. It's actually very based.

"Social justice groups will destroy the USA" is a totally bogus take. The USA has some perennial problems, like police violence and murderous culture, and some growing problems like wealth inequality and poor trading position. And version of the USA which would turn a blind eye to problems routed in the vile history of slavery, let alone ignore the the social divisions being made worse by appropriation of wealth, is not a version of the USA which should exist at all. We must see that it does not.

Unity based on the idea of living forever in the past, is just a non-starter.

"we must see that it does not" good luck with that, China literally loves you for it.

[San Montalbano]

I mean that's literally what they think and how the Chinese government operates "shrug"

Yeah, I think you're just doing a BOTHSAME of the Russians supporting Trump. But it won't work, because the Russians supporting Trump were breaking US law by interfering in an election without being registered foreign agents (FCC law, if you care). If the Chinese are supporting a political candidate, then yell about that. If they're supporting a political non-profit, then complain all you want.

But "China is supporting BLM and other social justice whatevers" rather lacks that quality of actually being illegal.

who said anything about legality? They take advantage through US corporations, the "Baizuo", even American sports teams and celebrity's, hugely outspoken with the SJW crowd who turn around and lick Chinese boot on the regular.

[San Montalbano]

who said anything about legality? They take advantage through US corporations, the "Baizuo", even American sports teams and celebrity's, hugely outspoken with the SJW crowd lick Chinese boot on the regular.

*I* said something about illegality. I'm expecting you to admit that Russia interfering in US politics is WORSE than China interfering in US politics ................ because it was actually illegal.

Why don't you back off the "enemies domestic" and talk about illegal and very destructive Chinese hacking that has happened recently?

It would carry your message of unity against the greater threat MUCH BETTER, than casting slurs on American citizens for daring to have an opinion.

Why, this is about China and the dangers they pose, not only to Taiwan but to the United States.

also, nobody slurred against Americans, it's what the Chinese call them, though I agree with their assessment I'm not here to name call.

also, where did i say Americans shouldn't have opinions?

[San Montalbano]

Why, this is about China and the dangers they pose, not only to Taiwan but to the United States.

also, nobody slurred against Americans, it's what the Chinese call them, though I agree with their assessment I'm not here to name call.

Criticizing Americans because your opinion differs, and implying they're only voicing an opinion because China is paying them, is utterly contrary to US interests. "Tearing America apart" because not all Americans will follow you is directly contrary to unity. You're trying to single out what you think is a minority of Americans, and blaming them.

That they're the exact same Americans who are saying "wait, we're turning into an anti-democratic police state" raises the question of why you're doing China's work for them? If China aren't actually paying you for it?

China criticizing America is now me criticizing America?

and clearly they don't care about america becoming a police state, they are tired of liberty which explains their constant push for more government in their lives from gun control to welfare and crying about pronouns(that is a criticism)

but alas, this is sort of getting off topic, so let's hop back to China and Taiwan. China for the current future probably has no reason to confront the US since they make tons of money off of our politicians, celebritys, idols etc etc.

Their isn't a reason for China to launch an attack on Taiwan when it's getting rich. Though, I presume, when this no longer occurs an attack is likley.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Dude, the PRC government is literally committing genocides against Tibetans, inner Mongolians, and Uyghurs as we speak.

No, it is absolutely not. The Mongol thing is nonsense too and the Tibetians aren't being killed either.

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/chin ... esearcher/

How many people speak Manchu today?

[Washington Resistance Army]

No, it is absolutely not. The Mongol thing is nonsense too and the Tibetians aren't being killed either.

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/chin ... esearcher/

How many people speak Manchu today?

A few tens of thousands iirc, the PRC certainly doesn't crack down on Manchu classes and revitalization efforts. There's plenty of places in the northeast that teach it.

[Orostan]

No, it is absolutely not. The Mongol thing is nonsense too and the Tibetians aren't being killed either.

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/chin ... esearcher/

How many people speak Manchu today?

Do you actually think the CPC exterminated the Manchus or something? "Manchuria" was majority Han by an enormous amount long before the PRC.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

How many people speak Manchu today?

Do you actually think the CPC exterminated the Manchus or something? "Manchuria" was majority Han by an enormous amount long before the PRC.

The fact that there are less than two dozen speakers who can be called native ones after 70+ years of misgovernment is curious indeed, yes.

[Punished UMN]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... cna1262148

...And there you have it, folks. The declining power of the US and the growing might in China. We are seeing history repeat itself, here. Empires are shifting and Taiwan is no doubt an ambition for itself to conquer. This would be an injury to US pride, being the world policeman which is why Taiwan is priority for us. None of us want war, but it seems to be more inevitable within the next few decades.

China will do whatever it can to win this competition whether through military or economic might as it already has been doing. They'll use politics & rhetoric to get their way in world affairs. Taiwan is a special case.

The only "good" that would come out of this if war does ensure somehow, is the Chinese Civil War would conclude as much like the Korean War, it technically still on a legal basis is still happening despite no fighting as both the ROC & PRC view one another as rebels against the state that must be suppressed.

I just hope and pray things turn for the best no matter what.

THe PLA would be crushed in any military attack on Taiwan.

1. The PLA navy is a joke. China doesn't have the wherewithal to introduce troops into Taiwan. Hence, you can't control a nation without boots on the ground.
2. China would be forever vilified by the geopolitic. Chinese trade would dry up to a trickle. Their economy would collapse in a fortnight.
3. China would invite the ire of powerful regional actors like Japan and South Korea. Combined with the US, this triad would crush China economically in an arms race.
4. China would suffer tremendous internal strife from citizens fed up with XI and his totalitarian policies. Xi government would collapse, while Taiwan stands strong.

The list goes on and one.

Although, Xi and the current CCP fancy themselves Hitlerlike Nazis. I wouldn't be surprised by any provocation from these autocratic sociopaths.

1) The PLAN is actually the largest and arguably most modern navy in the region.
2) The world needs the Chinese economy more than China needs ours. Without Chinese industry, many basic industries would collapse in even western countries.
3) With what? China is the world's largest industrial power, its industrial capacity is greater than all three countries combined, this isn't 1985 anymore.
4) Xi's policies are generally pretty popular.

Please do even a little research.

[Kubra]

Do you actually think the CPC exterminated the Manchus or something? "Manchuria" was majority Han by an enormous amount long before the PRC.

The fact that there are less than two dozen speakers who can be called native ones after 70+ years of misgovernment is curious indeed, yes.

it's not, really. By the late Qing dynasty, the Manchu one, the Manchu language has already been largely displaced in favour of gubmint mandarin.

[Punished UMN]

The fact that there are less than two dozen speakers who can be called native ones after 70+ years of misgovernment is curious indeed, yes.

it's not, really. By the late Qing dynasty, the Manchu one, the Manchu language has already been largely displaced in favour of gubmint mandarin.

Well known Maoist cadre, Empress Dowager Cixi

[Punished UMN]

Do you actually think the CPC exterminated the Manchus or something? "Manchuria" was majority Han by an enormous amount long before the PRC.

The good intentions of a conqueror are measured by their willingness to move to the territory and raise families. *nod*

The Han didn't conquer the Manchus, the Manchus conquered the Han Chinese (the living under the Ming Dynasty), established the Qing dynasty, and basically assimilated.

[Punished UMN]

The Han didn't conquer the Manchus, the Manchus conquered the Han Chinese (the living under the Ming Dynasty), established the Qing dynasty, and basically assimilated.

Well it's what a minority should do, right?

I don't know what your point there is. The Manchu weren't ethnically cleansed, they conquered the area and adopted Han customs in order to better rule over their Han subjects. You can't blame the PRC for the choice of the Manchu to adopt Han customs decades and even centuries prior to the PRC's or even the CCP's existence.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

The good intentions of a conqueror are measured by their willingness to move to the territory and raise families. *nod*

On a completely unrelated note </sarcasm>, the US keeps trying to get us to pay for American families settling around those military bases they’ve set up in our country - which they’re also trying to get us to pay for - and thereby grow a culturally incompatible minority with no desire to assimilate into the local population.

What was it you said? Ah, yes. Conquerers “move to the [conquered] territory and raise families.” Funny how that works.

I’m still more afraid of the CIA than anything the Chinese might do to us. We need an independent defence policy that doesn’t involve licking American boots in the hopes that if we humiliate ourselves enough in our prostrations, then when war comes they might actually deign to lower themselves and help us.

[Orostan]

Do you actually think the CPC exterminated the Manchus or something? "Manchuria" was majority Han by an enormous amount long before the PRC.

The fact that there are less than two dozen speakers who can be called native ones after 70+ years of misgovernment is curious indeed, yes.

Did you do any research on this or are you saying it because "CHINA BAD"?

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Ah, non-American. Good work. You have to lick some boots, you can only ask that they be well cleaned. Europe will hopefully progress to being a military power, to match their economic power. Trilateralism is a great concept (not one dares extend too far, for fear of having both against them) and the role of Third Power should not be filled by an over-armed and economically incompetent Russia, with its dangerous dreams of winning back the huge empire of the Soviets.

I’m aware that small countries on the international stage don’t get to have things like dignity. Being a kicking ball is our fate and our choice is merely that of whether we’re going to stay under someone’s feet or get kicked around between different sets of feet. Personally, I think the latter will offer us more longer-term independence and security, but I'm aware that I'm very much a small political minority in my country for thinking that.

I am, however, going to keep calling out the sheer American hypocrisy involved in our hegemonic overlord demanding that we stay disarmed, then turning right around and demanding that we offer them tribute for the privilege of being protected against the unthinkable horror of... having a different hegemonic overlord.

[Orostan]

Ah, non-American. Good work. You have to lick some boots, you can only ask that they be well cleaned. Europe will hopefully progress to being a military power, to match their economic power. Trilateralism is a great concept (not one dares extend too far, for fear of having both against them) and the role of Third Power should not be filled by an over-armed and economically incompetent Russia, with its dangerous dreams of winning back the huge empire of the Soviets.

I’m aware that small countries on the international stage don’t get to have things like dignity. Being a kicking ball is our fate and our choice is merely that of whether we’re going to stay under someone’s feet or get kicked around between different sets of feet.

I am, however, going to keep calling out the sheer American hypocrisy involved in our hegemonic overlord demanding that we stay disarmed, then turning right around and demanding that we offer them tribute for the privilege of being protected against the unthinkable horror of... having another hegemonic overlord.

i understand your desire for some sort of "fairness", but have you considered that CHINA BAD?!?!?!

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

i understand your desire for some sort of "fairness", but have you considered that CHINA BAD?!?!?!

Oh, don’t you start now. Just because we have a shared hatred of American foreign policy does not make me ideological friends with a CCP apologist.

What China is currently doing to East Africa is no better than what the Americans have done to us.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

i understand your desire for some sort of "fairness", but have you considered that CHINA BAD?!?!?!

Oh, don’t you start now. Just because we have a shared hatred of American foreign policy does not make me ideological friends with a CCP apologist.

What China is currently doing to East Africa is no better than what the Americans have done to us.

Colonialism, "loans" with riders about leasing out property and bases in Montenegrin harbours leased for 99 years are ok after all if you wear the correct flag. <.>

[Orostan]

i understand your desire for some sort of "fairness", but have you considered that CHINA BAD?!?!?!

Oh, don’t you start now. Just because we have a shared hatred of American foreign policy does not make me ideological friends with a CCP apologist.

What China is currently doing to East Africa is no better than what the Americans have done to us.

What China has done to East Africa, so far, is forgive debt and give a better deal than the US or Europe want to.