NationStates

San Lumen wrote:

Kannap wrote:
Well then let's hear your proposal.

admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

so yeah we're just rehashing the whole debate of letting people die to reopen everything.

Glad you aren't in public office.

Kannap wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

so yeah we're just rehashing the whole debate of letting people die to reopen everything.

Glad you aren't in public office.

If you were in Germany how many homeless people is it worth, instances of self harm, business closures and industries should be sacrificed while they wait months to get any sort of reasonable vaccine numbers and rollout plan. People there are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant with their government because there is no plan other than lockdown.

San Lumen wrote:

Kannap wrote:
Well then let's hear your proposal.

admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

Any ideas on how many people will die if the country is reopened before they are vaccinated?

San Lumen wrote:

Kannap wrote:
so yeah we're just rehashing the whole debate of letting people die to reopen everything.

Glad you aren't in public office.

If you were in Germany how many homeless people is it worth

Lumen, this isn't the first time I've said this and it probably won't be the last since you continue doing it - but stop using the homeless population as a pawn in your anti-lockdown crusade. I'll spare you the effortpost about the severity of the homeless crisis and what needs to be done about it since you didn't read my last one months ago when we had this same discussion and quite frankly, I'm led to believe you don't care.

San Lumen wrote:instances of self harm

I'd recommend those people seek professional and medical help for an issue that, quite frankly, you nor I are qualified to definitively weigh in on.

San Lumen wrote:business closures and industries should be sacrificed while they wait months to get any sort of reasonable vaccine numbers and rollout plan. People there are growing increasingly frustrated and defiant with their government because there is no plan other than lockdown.

Alright, so then what plan do you propose. And any plan that is just "fuck it, let people die," I'm going to elect to ignore on the account of it being a dumb plan.

Ifreann wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

Any ideas on how many people will die if the country is reopened before they are vaccinated?

We've been asking Lumen for nearly a year now how many deaths are required before he deems it acceptable to lockdown. Afaik, he's never answered and I'm left to assume it's a disgustingly grotesque number in how high it must be.

Kannap wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any ideas on how many people will die if the country is reopened before they are vaccinated?

We've been asking Lumen for nearly a year now how many deaths are required before he deems it acceptable to lockdown. Afaik, he's never answered and I'm left to assume it's a disgustingly grotesque number in how high it must be.

I am more inclined to guess that he hasnt thought this out to the end.

Ifreann wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

Any ideas on how many people will die if the country is reopened before they are vaccinated?

Florida is well on the way to full reopening, their numbers are still trending down.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any ideas on how many people will die if the country is reopened before they are vaccinated?

Florida is well on the way to full reopening, their numbers are still trending down.

Yeah i remember last time they said "hey we reopened and numbers are still going down" and then numbers went back up.

Kannap wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any ideas on how many people will die if the country is reopened before they are vaccinated?

We've been asking Lumen for nearly a year now how many deaths are required before he deems it acceptable to lockdown. Afaik, he's never answered and I'm left to assume it's a disgustingly grotesque number in how high it must be.

I assume a death toll of about 25% of Americans is acceptable under his standards.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Florida is well on the way to full reopening, their numbers are still trending down.

Yeah i remember last time they said "hey we reopened and numbers are still going down" and then numbers went back up.

That was then, this is now.

We are coming into summer, here anyway a couple million people have already been vaccinated, and the vaccine seems to work on the nyc variant we are experiencing. Last year end of May - sept the numbers were down without the vaccine. There really is no reason not to expect a similar path this year. I wouldn't argue that there will be some places that will need to still be shut down, but for the most part we should be fully open by the summer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56437852

Tanzania's president John Magufuli dies at 61 possibly from Covid.

San Lumen wrote:

Kannap wrote:
Well then let's hear your proposal.

admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

You know my grandparents are still in Germany and they're at high risk. If you reopen everything there, they could die. There are better ways of helping the economy without risking lives. Life is a lot more important than the economy.

My mom got her first vaccination yesterday. Other than the site of the injection being a tad sore, she says she feels fine. She gets the second dose in April, exactly 21 days from today.

Loeje wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
admit failure and proceed to reopen the country because if they persist on their current path by the time they get any sort of vaccine rollout going their economy will have collapsed. Germany has been almost completely shut down for four months.

You know my grandparents are still in Germany and they're at high risk. If you reopen everything there, they could die. There are better ways of helping the economy without risking lives. Life is a lot more important than the economy.

I'm pretty sure he's thought this through as he has elderly relatives. I've got relatives who are extremely vulnerable to covid and I agree with Lumen 100 %: I'm not selfish enough to put them over everyone else and nor are they.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:My mom got her first vaccination yesterday. Other than the site of the injection being a tad sore, she says she feels fine. She gets the second dose in April, exactly 21 days from today.

Those vaccination sites can get seriously sore, it's only as bad as a muscle ache combined with a mosquito bite though and it passes.

CoraSpia wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:My mom got her first vaccination yesterday. Other than the site of the injection being a tad sore, she says she feels fine. She gets the second dose in April, exactly 21 days from today.

Those vaccination sites can get seriously sore, it's only as bad as a muscle ache combined with a mosquito bite though and it passes.

It’s what most people report, arm soreness.

Her GP did tell her the second dose could make her feel ill around 24 hours, but it’s not 100% a certainty that it’ll do so. She should be aware and prepared if it does.

San Lumen wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56437852

Tanzania's president John Magufuli dies at 61 possibly from Covid.

the lesson here is "don't pretend the disease doesn't exist", "don't think you can fix it with prayer and steam therapy", "don't reject vaccines", and "don't pretend you're all fine when you're sick with a deadly disease that's killed millions"

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

CoraSpia wrote:Those vaccination sites can get seriously sore, it's only as bad as a muscle ache combined with a mosquito bite though and it passes.

It’s what most people report, arm soreness.

Her GP did tell her the second dose could make her feel ill around 24 hours, but it’s not 100% a certainty that it’ll do so. She should be aware and prepared if it does.

A bunch of co workers were wiped out by it for a day. My experience was a bad headache for about 6 hours. Mrs mermania's, nothing.

CoraSpia wrote:

Loeje wrote:You know my grandparents are still in Germany and they're at high risk. If you reopen everything there, they could die. There are better ways of helping the economy without risking lives. Life is a lot more important than the economy.

I'm pretty sure he's thought this through as he has elderly relatives. I've got relatives who are extremely vulnerable to covid and I agree with Lumen 100 %: I'm not selfish enough to put them over everyone else and nor are they.

Of course you're not, you're selfish enough to put yourself over everyone else, to put anybody else above yourself would be uncharacteristically selfless.

CoraSpia wrote:

Loeje wrote:You know my grandparents are still in Germany and they're at high risk. If you reopen everything there, they could die. There are better ways of helping the economy without risking lives. Life is a lot more important than the economy.

I'm pretty sure he's thought this through as he has elderly relatives. I've got relatives who are extremely vulnerable to covid and I agree with Lumen 100 %: I'm not selfish enough to put them over everyone else and nor are they.

I'm just as concerned about every other family.

Kannap wrote:

CoraSpia wrote:I'm pretty sure he's thought this through as he has elderly relatives. I've got relatives who are extremely vulnerable to covid and I agree with Lumen 100 %: I'm not selfish enough to put them over everyone else and nor are they.

Of course you're not, you're selfish enough to put yourself over everyone else, to put anybody else above yourself would be uncharacteristically selfless.

Yeah of course, I'm so selfish that I support opening up despite the fact I could lose half my family to covid should they catch it. That makes so much sense.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
It’s what most people report, arm soreness.

Her GP did tell her the second dose could make her feel ill around 24 hours, but it’s not 100% a certainty that it’ll do so. She should be aware and prepared if it does.

A bunch of co workers were wiped out by it for a day. My experience was a bad headache for about 6 hours. Mrs mermania's, nothing.

Grandma breezed through. Not even a headache, her nursing home reported. But everyone’s different. I expect I’ll get to feel sick. It always happens for me.

CoraSpia wrote:

Kannap wrote:
Of course you're not, you're selfish enough to put yourself over everyone else, to put anybody else above yourself would be uncharacteristically selfless.

Yeah of course, I'm so selfish that I support opening up despite the fact I could lose half my family to covid should they catch it. That makes so much sense.

You've made it clear this whole year you want things fully open so you can experience your life to the fullest, everybody else's lives be damned. How is that not selfish?

Kowani wrote:

San Lumen wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56437852

Tanzania's president John Magufuli dies at 61 possibly from Covid.

the lesson here is "don't pretend the disease doesn't exist", "don't think you can fix it with prayer and steam therapy", "don't reject vaccines", and "don't pretend you're all fine when you're sick with a deadly disease that's killed millions"

The comments he made over the last few months are on par with Bolsonaro. He was succeeded by Vice President Samia Suluhu Hassan who will be the nation's first female president albeit under tragic circumstances.

Kannap wrote:

CoraSpia wrote:Yeah of course, I'm so selfish that I support opening up despite the fact I could lose half my family to covid should they catch it. That makes so much sense.

You've made it clear this whole year you want things fully open so you can experience your life to the fullest, everybody else's lives be damned. How is that not selfish?

I don't think that the government should be given the authority to decide what risks people are allowed to take with their own health and I reject the idea that we all live in some sort of happy society in which we all love and take care of one another. I'm merely advocating for a transfer of power from the government to the people regarding whether they wish to shut themselves away or not without offering any advice on which course of action they should take. If it's about anything, from covid to drugs to gun control, I'm going to be on the side of free will.