Coronavirus Thread VI: Are We Nearly There Yet? (READ OP)

[Esalia]

Bullshit. You are much less likely to suffer a negative outcome. No reputable doctor anywhere would ever tell you you were 100% protected from one, and none of the vaccine producers claim that either.

And that is a claim they would definitely want to make if they thought they could get away with it.

You are completely talking out of your ass.


Bullshit. Nobody currently knows the extent to which vaccinated people with the virus shed viral particles. It's almost certainly lower, but there isn't currently good data on the subject.

Stop making things up.

With all due respect, you seem to be downplaying the effectiveness of the vaccines. No vaccine is 100%, and we need to get more people vaccinated. However, the CDC has said that if an vaccinated person attends a large event with unvaccinated people or visits an unvaccinated person or family member, it is the unvaccinated person(s) that are at greater risk than the vaccinated.

Here are the latest CDC guidelines..

I don't think it's "downplaying the effectiveness of the vaccines" to point out they're not 100% effective, because very few things are. The COVID vaccines would be incredibly unique if every single person to ever get fully vaccinated was completely and fully protected from any negative outcome of COVID-19.

That's not saying they're ineffective, that's acknowledging that they're not perfect.

[Ifreann]

=
That's just not true. The majority of vaccines are not 100% effective, and depend on the idea that most of the population will get them to work.

If you are fully vaccinated using one of the approved COVID vaccines, once the immediate immunity period is over, you are 100% protected from any negative outcome from SARS-CoV-2 infection. You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period.

All of the vaccines are also strongly effective against preventing milder COVID infections. Assuming you would spend an extended period of time with someone who is unvaccinated and actively infectious with SARS-CoV-2 at most you will get a mild cold at best and your viral load, if you even have one, will pose no threat to unvaccinated people.

Hey look, you're lying again. Really weird that you keep being allowed back on this website when you have not stopped lying about this pandemic for a year now.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

=
That's just not true. The majority of vaccines are not 100% effective, and depend on the idea that most of the population will get them to work.

If you are fully vaccinated using one of the approved COVID vaccines, once the immediate immunity period is over, you are 100% protected from any negative outcome from SARS-CoV-2 infection. You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period.

All of the vaccines are also strongly effective against preventing milder COVID infections. Assuming you would spend an extended period of time with someone who is unvaccinated and actively infectious with SARS-CoV-2 at most you will get a mild cold at best and your viral load, if you even have one, will pose no threat to unvaccinated people.

Nothing is 100% effective Vetalia. The best vaccines are 95%, but there have been breakthrough cases especially amongst the elderly.

[Deblar]

Florida concert promoter charging unvaccinated fans $1,000 for tickets

A Florida gig promoter has come up with a way of making sure that as many fans as possible attending an upcoming punk show have been vaccinated. Paul Williams of Leadfoot Productions is putting on a gig at VFW Post #39 in St. Petersburg, Florida on June 26, featuring performances from Teenage Bottlerocket, MakeWar and Rutterkin.

In a bid to curb the spread of the coronavirus, Williams has instituted a price of $18 per ticket for those who have been fully vaccinated, and $999.99 for those who haven’t. “We’re just trying to do a show safely,” Williams told WFTS. “And they should go out and get vaccinated to protect themselves and their families and their community.”

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis recently declared that those living in Florida have the right to get vaccinated or not and “no business or government entity will be able to deny you services based on your decision.” With that said, knowing he couldn’t force anyone who wasn’t vaccinated not to attend the show, Williams came up with the idea for the unique ticket pricing instead.

Speaking to ABC News, he added: “I also wanted it to be a vaccine drive to get the fence-sitters off the fence. I wanted to get the kids that want to go to shows to go out and get their shots.”

So far there has been no takers for the $1,000 tickets, but Williams has said that if anyone does buy one they will “be treated like everyone else”. While the response to his ticket policy has been “overwhelmingly positive” for the most part, Williams did mention that he’s received a number of spam calls from anti-vaxxers. “To care about people being safe is very bad apparently,” he added.

Ray Carlisle of Teenage Bottlerocket, one of the bands on the line-up, is on board with the policy, telling WFTS: “We’re all vaccinated. We encourage everyone to get vaccinated so we can see you in the pit.”

Modern problems require modern solutions

[Vetalia]

Hey look, you're lying again. Really weird that you keep being allowed back on this website when you have not stopped lying about this pandemic for a year now.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... dance.html

This is not a lie or misinformation, it is flat out the guidance provided by the CDC. Fully vaccinated people do not need to wear masks or social distance in both indoor and outdoor settings unless specifically required by the location. In most cases they also do not need to quarantine after exposure to SARS-CoV-2 if asymptomatic.

The only exception as noted by the CDC is when the person is symptomatic or tested positive, in which case they shouldn't be out in public anyways.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/ ... safety.htm

The Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines all reduced hospitalizations and deaths (i.e. "negative outcomes") by 100%.

[Vetalia]

Nothing is 100% effective Vetalia. The best vaccines are 95%, but there have been breakthrough cases especially amongst the elderly.

Of course not, that's not what I meant. "Negative outcomes" are hospitalizations and deaths, for which all three vaccines were determined in trials as 100% effective at preventing.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/ ... safety.htm

Could this effectiveness be different in long-term and real world circumstances? Sure, but I've yet to see any examples of vaccinated individuals being hospitalized or dying from COVID.

[San Lumen]

Nothing is 100% effective Vetalia. The best vaccines are 95%, but there have been breakthrough cases especially amongst the elderly.

Of course not, that's not what I meant. "Negative outcomes" are hospitalizations and deaths, for which all three vaccines were determined in trials as 100% effective at preventing.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/ ... safety.htm

Could this effectiveness be different in long-term and real world circumstances? Sure, but I've yet to see any examples of vaccinated individuals being hospitalized or dying from COVID.

No vaccine has ever been 100 hundred percent effective and as from what i've heard its impossible to create that is.

[Galloism]

Nothing is 100% effective Vetalia. The best vaccines are 95%, but there have been breakthrough cases especially amongst the elderly.

Of course not, that's not what I meant. "Negative outcomes" are hospitalizations and deaths, for which all three vaccines were determined in trials as 100% effective at preventing.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/ ... safety.htm

Could this effectiveness be different in long-term and real world circumstances? Sure, but I've yet to see any examples of vaccinated individuals being hospitalized or dying from COVID.

Even though they are very effective at that, I don't think it's 100% in the absolute.

[Vetalia]

No vaccine has ever been 100 hundred percent effective and as from what i've heard its impossible to create that is.

100% effective at preventing infection, right, the best I am aware of was the smallpox vaccine at 95% effectiveness.

[Vetalia]

Even though they are very effective at that, I don't think it's 100% in the absolute.

It's only 100% in the clinical trials, so it'll probably be different in the larger population but I doubt it will differ by much given the size of the populations used in the trials. As you noted there have been a handful of breakthrough cases a little later on but it sounds like the issue in that case wasn't the ineffectiveness of the vaccine but rather pre-existing medical conditions/treatments interfering with its effectiveness.

*I.e. >2 weeks after completing the two-dose or single-dose regimen.

[Galloism]

Even though they are very effective at that, I don't think it's 100% in the absolute.

It's only 100% in the clinical trials, so it'll probably be different in the larger population but I doubt it will differ by much given the size of the populations used in the trials. As I'd mentioned before I haven't yet heard of anyone who was fully vaccinated* who was hospitalized or died as a result of COVID.

*I.e. >2 weeks after completing the two-dose or single-dose regimen.

There's a few, but they are exceptionally rare.

[Vetalia]

There's a few, but they are exceptionally rare.

That's really unfortunate...it sounds like the issue in this case is his compromised immune system because of the leukemia treatments. A similar issue has come up in studies with transplant recipients, many of whom didn't develop significant antibodies using the mRNA vaccines even after completion of both doses. Antibody testing should really be standard for individuals with compromised immune systems after receiving the vaccines.

Definitely an area for further research regarding the vaccines and it also highlights the importance of continuing work on effective COVID treatments to supplement these.

[Galloism]

There's a few, but they are exceptionally rare.

That's really unfortunate...it sounds like the issue in this case is his compromised immune system because of the leukemia treatments. A similar issue has come up in studies with transplant recipients, many of whom didn't develop significant antibodies using the mRNA vaccines even after completion of both doses. Antibody testing should really be standard for individuals with compromised immune systems after receiving the vaccines.

Definitely an area for further research regarding the vaccines and it also highlights the importance of continuing work on effective COVID treatments to supplement these.

Sure.

But to the point, it's not 100%. It's really high, but not 100%.

[Ifreann]

Hey look, you're lying again. Really weird that you keep being allowed back on this website when you have not stopped lying about this pandemic for a year now.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... dance.html

This is not a lie or misinformation, it is flat out the guidance provided by the CDC. Fully vaccinated people do not need to wear masks or social distance in both indoor and outdoor settings unless specifically required by the location.

The only exception as noted by the CDC would be in a case where the person is symptomatic or tested positive, in which case they shouldn't be out in public anyways.

So when you said "You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period." that was a lie. And you're lying again, because the CDC doesn't say that people only have to wear a mask and social distance when symptomatic or testing positive. What the CDC actually says is

Fully vaccinated people can:

Resume activities without wearing masks or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance

And those are just CDC guidelines for Americans.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-safety.htm

The Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines all reduced hospitalizations and deaths (i.e. "negative outcomes") by 100%.

You're lying.

Moderna

Authorized for individuals age 18 years and older.

Type: mRNA(link is external)

Dose: Two doses 28 days apart

Efficacy: Decreased risk of moderate to severe COVID-19 disease by 94.1%. Reduced the risk of hospitalization by 89%.

Even when you try to invent a novel definition of the phrase "negative outcomes" to exclude outcomes which are negative which are not reduced by 100% you're still lying.

And it's so obvious that you are lying, because you have been doing this for a year. It only took a few weeks of lockdown for you to decide that we'd done enough and should just let vulnerable people isolate themselves and otherwise abandon all efforts to fight the spread of covid. And you have persisted in trying to convince people to stop fighting the spread of covid despite multiple bans for the lies you've been telling in service of that goal and, infinitely more importantly, millions of deaths from covid-19. Just stop.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I’m glad our county’s risk level went from orange to yellow, finally. I’m cautiously optimistic that this has to do with higher vaccination rates and people still acting rationally by wearing masks, socially distancing and hand washing. I hope we’re rounding a corner finally. But I won’t hold my breath. Florida isn’t known for its discipline.

[Vetalia]

So when you said "You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period." that was a lie. And you're lying again, because the CDC doesn't say that people only have to wear a mask and social distance when symptomatic or testing positive. What the CDC actually says is

Fully vaccinated people can:

Resume activities without wearing masks or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance

And those are just CDC guidelines for Americans.

Yes, I am an American so I am following our guidelines. If you are fully vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask or socially distance to prevent transmission of the virus, which was the point I was getting at. Obviously if it's still required by a location you still need to do so.

That doesn't equal having to wear a mask or socially distance to prevent spreading the virus and is the reason why the mask mandates and distancing requirements have been increasingly eliminated nationwide for vaccinated people.

Authorized for individuals age 18 years and older.

Type: mRNA(link is external)

Dose: Two doses 28 days apart

Efficacy: Decreased risk of moderate to severe COVID-19 disease by 94.1%. Reduced the risk of hospitalization by 89%.
Even when you try to invent a novel definition of the phrase "negative outcomes" to exclude outcomes which are negative which are not reduced by 100% you're still lying.

Where are you getting your data from? The results of the clinical trials I referenced were 100% effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths and there have yet to be any significant numbers of breakthrough cases, let alone hospitalizations or deaths, among fully vaccinated people. Also, how is hospitalization defined in your source?

And it's so obvious that you are lying, because you have been doing this for a year. It only took a few weeks of lockdown for you to decide that we'd done enough and should just let vulnerable people isolate themselves and otherwise abandon all efforts to fight the spread of covid. And you have persisted in trying to convince people to stop fighting the spread of covid despite multiple bans for the lies you've been telling in service of that goal and, infinitely more importantly, millions of deaths from covid-19. Just stop.

The entire purpose of the original lockdowns were to buy time to build up hospital capacity and prepare for increases in cases, not to control the virus itself. Once prepared, it was appropriate to reopen and resume normal activities in the context of mask mandates and social distancing. If necessary, they should be reimposed in circumstances where there are clear signs of strain on the health care system but these months-long lockdowns were nothing but a disaster that inflicted enormous costs and rendered subsequent measures less effective due to fatigue. In the end, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between death tolls in the hardcore lockdown countries vs. more open countries. The worst performing countries fall into both groups.

And forcing people to continue to follow COVID measures like masks and social distancing after being fully vaccinated accomplishes nothing but discouraging people from getting vaccinated. Vaccination should be promoted as much as possible as the path to normalcy...because it is.

[Vassenor]

So when you said "You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period." that was a lie. And you're lying again, because the CDC doesn't say that people only have to wear a mask and social distance when symptomatic or testing positive. What the CDC actually says is


And those are just CDC guidelines for Americans.

Yes, I am an American so I am following our guidelines. If you are fully vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask or socially distance to prevent transmission of the virus, which was the point I was getting at. Obviously if it's still required by a location you still need to do so.

That doesn't equal having to wear a mask or socially distance to prevent spreading the virus and is the reason why the mask mandates and distancing requirements have been increasingly eliminated nationwide for vaccinated people.

Authorized for individuals age 18 years and older.

Type: mRNA(link is external)

Dose: Two doses 28 days apart

Efficacy: Decreased risk of moderate to severe COVID-19 disease by 94.1%. Reduced the risk of hospitalization by 89%.
Even when you try to invent a novel definition of the phrase "negative outcomes" to exclude outcomes which are negative which are not reduced by 100% you're still lying.

Where are you getting your data from? The results of the clinical trials I referenced were 100% effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths and there have yet to be any significant numbers of breakthrough cases, let alone hospitalizations or deaths, among fully vaccinated people. Also, how is hospitalization defined in your source?

And it's so obvious that you are lying, because you have been doing this for a year. It only took a few weeks of lockdown for you to decide that we'd done enough and should just let vulnerable people isolate themselves and otherwise abandon all efforts to fight the spread of covid. And you have persisted in trying to convince people to stop fighting the spread of covid despite multiple bans for the lies you've been telling in service of that goal and, infinitely more importantly, millions of deaths from covid-19. Just stop.

The entire purpose of the original lockdowns were to buy time to build up hospital capacity and prepare for increases in cases, not to control the virus itself. Once prepared, it was appropriate to reopen and resume normal activities in the context of mask mandates and social distancing. If necessary, they should be reimposed in circumstances where there are clear signs of strain on the health care system but these months-long lockdowns were nothing but a disaster that inflicted enormous costs and rendered subsequent measures less effective due to fatigue. In the end, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between death tolls in the hardcore lockdown countries vs. more open countries. The worst performing countries fall into both groups.

And forcing people to continue to follow COVID measures like masks and social distancing after being fully vaccinated accomplishes nothing but discouraging people from getting vaccinated. Vaccination should be promoted as much as possible as the path to normalcy...because it is.

Or you just want to be able to lie about your vaccination status in order to skirt restrictions.

[Kowani]

WHO approves SinoVac

The World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday it has approved a COVID-19 vaccine made by Sinovac Biotech for emergency use listing, paving the way for a second Chinese shot to be used in poor countries.

A WHO emergency listing is a signal to national regulators of a product's safety and efficacy and will allow the Sinovac shot to be included in COVAX, the global programme providing vaccines mainly for poor countries, which faces major supply problems due to curbs on Indian exports.

The WHO's independent panel of experts said in a statement it recommended Sinovac's vaccine for adults over 18. There was no upper age limit as data suggested it is likely to have a protective effect in older people.

The WHO's technical advisory group, which began meeting on May 5, made the decision after reviewing the latest clinical data on the Sinovac vaccine's safety and efficacy as well as the company's manufacturing practices.

WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus welcomed the move, calling the vaccine safe and effective and noting its easy storage requirements make it suitable for low-income countries.

"It's now crucial to get these lifesaving tools to the people that need them quickly," he told a briefing.

Branded CoronaVac in some regions, it is the eighth vaccine to win such a WHO listing to combat COVID-19 and the second developed by a Chinese company, after the May 7 approval of a shot developed by state-backed Sinopharm

[Salandriagado]

I do think we’re going to experience a spike for memorial weekend but the vast majority of people that are going to get seriously sick are going to be unvaccinated Republicans and Trump supporters. Ruby red districts where vaccine hesitancy is sky high, there’s going to be a surge in hospital cases and deaths.

Every single "surge" prediction has been wrong, in fact embarrassingly so, and if one didn't happen during the Super Bowl back in February when we were still on the tail end of the peak in December-January it definitely is not going to happen now.

Are we looking at the same data? I'm seeing an uptick of ~2,000 cases per day (against a backdrop of rapidly declining cases, which then immediately stopped) after the Superbowl.

And vaccine hesitancy is not a red/blue issue, it exists on both ends of the spectrum.

Except that it really is.

[Salandriagado]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-57308592

Covid: WHO renames UK and other variants with Greek letters

The World Health Organization (WHO) has announced a new naming system for variants of Covid-19.

From now on the WHO will use Greek letters to refer to variants first detected in countries like the UK, South Africa and India.

The UK variant for instance is labelled as Alpha, the South African Beta, and the Indian as Delta.

The WHO said this was to simplify discussions but also to help remove some stigma from the names.

Earlier this month the Indian government criticised the naming of variant B.1.617.2 - first detected in the country last October - as the "Indian variant", though the WHO had never officially labelled it as such.

Someone tell the BBC that Gamma comes after Beta, not Delta.

Gamma is the P.1 ("Brazillian") variant. The BBC don't mention it, because it essentially is not present in the UK.

[Vetalia]

Or you just want to be able to lie about your vaccination status in order to skirt restrictions.

No need.

https://ibb.co/Tbsk2nW

[Salandriagado]

=
That's just not true. The majority of vaccines are not 100% effective, and depend on the idea that most of the population will get them to work.

If you are fully vaccinated using one of the approved COVID vaccines, once the immediate immunity period is over, you are 100% protected from any negative outcome from SARS-CoV-2 infection.

This is not true.

You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period.

This is contrary to CDC guidelines.

All of the vaccines are also strongly effective against preventing milder COVID infections. Assuming you would spend an extended period of time with someone who is unvaccinated and actively infectious with SARS-CoV-2 at most you will get a mild cold at best and your viral load, if you even have one, will pose no threat to unvaccinated people.

This is unsubstantiated speculation.

[Ifreann]

So when you said "You do not need to wear a mask at all or socially distance, period." that was a lie. And you're lying again, because the CDC doesn't say that people only have to wear a mask and social distance when symptomatic or testing positive. What the CDC actually says is


And those are just CDC guidelines for Americans.

Yes, I am an American so I am following our guidelines. If you are fully vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask or socially distance to prevent transmission of the virus, which was the point I was getting at. Obviously if it's still required by a location you still need to do so.

That doesn't equal having to wear a mask or socially distance to prevent spreading the virus and is the reason why the mask mandates and distancing requirements have been increasingly eliminated nationwide for vaccinated people.

Your claim that once vaccinated no one needs to wear a mask or socially distance, period, is certainly growing a lot of caveats.

Authorized for individuals age 18 years and older.

Type: mRNA(link is external)

Dose: Two doses 28 days apart

Efficacy: Decreased risk of moderate to severe COVID-19 disease by 94.1%. Reduced the risk of hospitalization by 89%.
Even when you try to invent a novel definition of the phrase "negative outcomes" to exclude outcomes which are negative which are not reduced by 100% you're still lying.

Where are you getting your data from?

The Wisconsin Department of Health Services. You know, the link you posted.

The results of the clinical trials I referenced were 100% effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths and there have yet to be any significant numbers of breakthrough cases, let alone hospitalizations or deaths, among fully vaccinated people. Also, how is hospitalization defined in your source?

It's your source. Maybe you should have read it, because it doesn't support your claim that being fully vaccinated prevents any possibility of negative outcomes, nor your revised claim that being fully vaccinated prevents any possibility of two specific negative outcomes.

And it's so obvious that you are lying, because you have been doing this for a year. It only took a few weeks of lockdown for you to decide that we'd done enough and should just let vulnerable people isolate themselves and otherwise abandon all efforts to fight the spread of covid. And you have persisted in trying to convince people to stop fighting the spread of covid despite multiple bans for the lies you've been telling in service of that goal and, infinitely more importantly, millions of deaths from covid-19. Just stop.

The entire purpose of the original lockdowns were to buy time to build up hospital capacity and prepare for increases in cases, not to control the virus itself...they have enormous economic, social and psychological costs. Once prepared, it was appropriate to reopen and resume normal activities in the context of mask mandates and social distancing. If necessary, they should be reimposed in circumstances where there are clear signs of strain on the health care system but these months-long lockdowns were nothing but a disaster that inflicted enormous costs and rendered subsequent measures less effective. In the end, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between death tolls in the hardcore lockdown countries vs. more open countries.

And forcing people to continue to follow COVID measures like masks and social distancing after being fully vaccinated accomplishes nothing but discouraging people from getting vaccinated. Vaccination should be promoted as much as possible as the path to normalcy

The death toll in Sweden, which famously did not employ lockdowns, is 14,451. The death toll in neighbouring Norway is 783. In Finland it's 986. In Denmark it's 2516. Sweden has twice the population of each of its neighbours, but suffered between seven and twenty times as many deaths, roughly. Not a whole lot of difference, eh? Maybe if the whole world had followed Sweden's lead we'd have seen a similar minimal difference and between 21 and 60 million people would be dead right now.

[Page]

The thing about the whole debate over the efficacy of vaccines is that regardless, it leads us to the same place sooner or later. If the vaccines are effective, we get everyone vaccinated and move on with our lives. If not, we can keep things closed for a bit longer and try to get to a point where infection rates are manageable but sooner or later we will have to move on with our lives. The human species can't jump through hoops for the rest of its existence over this. We can argue about duration, 1 more year, 5 more years, 10 more years but I mean what are people thinking, that there will be covid lockdowns in the Intergalactic Empire of Man?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

The thing about the whole debate over the efficacy of vaccines is that regardless, it leads us to the same place sooner or later. If the vaccines are effective, we get everyone vaccinated and move on with our lives. If not, we can keep things closed for a bit longer and try to get to a point where infection rates are manageable but sooner or later we will have to move on with our lives. The human species can't jump through hoops for the rest of its existence over this. We can argue about duration, 1 more year, 5 more years, 10 more years but I mean what are people thinking, that there will be covid lockdowns in the Intergalactic Empire of Man?

As Fauci said, all pandemics come to an end sooner or later. I don't think we will be seeing a covid outbreak like April 2020 for a long time, if ever again.