Coronavirus Thread VI: Are We Nearly There Yet? (READ OP)

[Thermodolia]

Ive seen several televised concerts

You know what should come into vogue? Open air Greco-Roman theatres. Not that im a hellenophile or anything. <.>

Yes

[The Black Forrest]

And I am sure you believe the election was stolen. Anyway let’s stay with covid. Trump has a large hand with it getting out of control in the US.

Joking joking election was fair, I was just taking you out of context.

And yes trump did have a role in making coronavirus out of control.

Heh. Sometimes you miss a simple ball breaking. No worries.

[Kannap]

My state is already vaccinating anybody over the age of 16, you're the only one panicking over this sick fantasy of yours that the pandemic will be permanent.

Literally half of the US is vaccinating the above 16

I'm hoping for some kind of semblance of normal, even if a newer version of normal, by the end of the year.

[Xmara]

Kindly don't throw me in with Lumen.

I consider myself liberal. I love the theatre. I miss it. I look forward to its safe return -- emphasis on safe. I would not sacrifice a single life to see a thousand shows.


You don't get to decide the value of people's lives, nor that they should be sacrificed so your life can be as interesting as you want it.

Other people have lives that mean something too. People matter to those around them. And the fact you haven't seen a show recently doesn't mean one goddamn thing to those people, but the fact that their loved ones are alive -- if they are lucky enough for them to have survived -- does.


I can definitely see myself wearing a mask when I have to go out, if I'm not feeling well (even when the mandatory masking law ends).

I agree it would be a good thing for us to adopt. Because of changed behaviour, no flu was detected in England between 28th December 2020 and 14th February 2021; rates were also well down in the US (where flu alone causes up to 810,000 hospitalisations and 61,000 deaths in an average year, despite vaccination being available).

I can see people appreciating the effort to keep others safe.

I understand the point you were trying to make but for the sake of philosophical honesty, 100% of people are willing to sacrifice one or several lives for the sake of convenience or pleasure. We accept deaths from alcoholism as an acceptable casualty of the rest of us getting to enjoy having a beer. We accept a few children drowning so the rest of us get to enjoy public swimming pools. We accept people dying from peanut allergies so the rest of us get to have peanuts.

And that's okay! A world in which everyone was constantly doing everything possible to save as many lives as possible would be a world of abject fucking misery. Prolonging life isn't always the highest priority - if it was, the governments of the world would have commissioned the mass manufacture of a nutritionally optimal version of soylent with the ideal amount of carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins and we would consume that most or all of the time instead of the foods we enjoy. And no one wanted to put maximum effort into preventing covid transmissions either. We could have gone further than the strictest lockdowns, we could have made everyone who isn't necessary to maintain our survival needs stay inside 100% of the time. We could have had marital law and the military leaving food rations outside of peoples' doors instead of letting people continue to grocery shop, and a lot more people would be alive today. But we didn't do that, and the fact that we didn't do that indicates that most of the human race would rather more people die than live like that.

Conversely, even while Lumen's views are quite far to the other end of the spectrum, even his positions are far from absolute. Just as a world where maximum effort was put into saving lives would suck, so would a world where we don't give a shit about saving lives at all suck.

In order to live happy lives, we have to find the golden mean of balancing safety vs. convenience and/or pleasure. We all agree with that if you really think about it, we just disagree about where the golden mean lies.

Unlike Lumen, I think it's reasonable to put concerts and shows on hold for awhile, to keep bars for awhile. I don't Lumen's position on masks but I certainly am willing to wear a mask in any indoor public space and any crowded outdoor public space and I do. But I think a lot of jurisdictions have gone way too far with their measures. Telling people they can't have a house party, fine. Expecting everyone who doesn't already live with their romantic partner to go months without touching them is insane. Telling people they can't go for walks is insane.

This, pretty much.

[Kannap]

Ive seen several televised concerts

You know what should come into vogue? Open air Greco-Roman theatres. Not that im a hellenophile or anything. <.>

a Red Rocks Amphitheater in every city.

[Xmara]

Literally half of the US is vaccinating the above 16

I'm hoping for some kind of semblance of normal, even if a newer version of normal, by the end of the year.

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

[Kannap]

I'm hoping for some kind of semblance of normal, even if a newer version of normal, by the end of the year.

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

Nope, fortunately. My biggest issue is my ears hurting and always feeling like I need to Van Gogh both of them.

[The Black Forrest]

I'm hoping for some kind of semblance of normal, even if a newer version of normal, by the end of the year.

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

*shrugs* Masks don’t bother me and I hope they become a standard in the US. Feel off; wear a mask. It would help reduce sick spreading.....

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

*shrugs* Masks don’t bother me and I hope they become a standard in the US. Feel off; wear a mask. It would help reduce sick spreading.....

Also I got some badass bandanas the virus gave me an excuse to wear without being harassed by police or store employees.

[The Black Forrest]

*shrugs* Masks don’t bother me and I hope they become a standard in the US. Feel off; wear a mask. It would help reduce sick spreading.....

Also I got some badass bandanas the virus gave me an excuse to wear without being harassed by police or store employees.

I saw a guy tweet himself with the caption saying I never thought I would see the day I could enter a bank and nobody cared.

Hoody; glasses and mask.....

[Galloism]

Also I got some badass bandanas the virus gave me an excuse to wear without being harassed by police or store employees.

I saw a guy tweet himself with the caption saying I never thought I would see the day I could enter a bank and nobody cared.

Hoody; glasses and mask.....

I marked it as a personal first when I walked into a bank wearing a mask and told the teller to give me money.

[North Washington Republic]

I'm hoping for some kind of semblance of normal, even if a newer version of normal, by the end of the year.

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

No, I don’t mind wearing masks at all. Until I got my hands on some KN95, I was even double masking.

[North Washington Republic]

*shrugs* Masks don’t bother me and I hope they become a standard in the US. Feel off; wear a mask. It would help reduce sick spreading.....

Also I got some badass bandanas the virus gave me an excuse to wear without being harassed by police or store employees.

Bandanas have shown to be not effective and some cases, worse than not wearing a mask.

[Salandriagado]

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

*shrugs* Masks don’t bother me and I hope they become a standard in the US. Feel off; wear a mask. It would help reduce sick spreading.....

Definitely. At the very least, it'll take me at least another 3 or 4 years to get through the box of masks I got from a friend who had messed up the order for their businesses, even wearing one every day (it turns out "number of masks" and "number of boxes of masks" are different things, who knew?), so I'm going to be wearing them when I'm feeling off for a good while.

[Atheris]

Getting my second mind control shot on Wednesday!

[Galloism]

Getting my second mind control shot on Wednesday!

ONE OF US

[Kowani]

Pennsylvania expands vaccine access

Higher education staff, construction workers, the press, and election workers are among those who qualify for the vaccine in Phase 1C.

Pennsylvania and Philadelphia come morning will open Covid-19 vaccines to everyone in phase 1C. That includes many essential employees such as higher education and construction workers, the press and election workers as well. A week from tomorrow any Pennsylvanian or Philadelphian 16 or older will be eligible to get their shot.

[Psycho Peoples]

Hi

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Chinese official says local vaccines 'don't have high protection rates'

Not just Sinovac, but all of them, presumably.

China wants to ban foreigners who haven't received one of their jabs. Good. Let the Chinese economy implode due to lack of foreign investment.

[The Black Forrest]

Getting my second mind control shot on Wednesday!

ONE OF US

Shhhhh! The nanobots are in the second shot. He will start believing after that!

[The Black Forrest]

Chinese official says local vaccines 'don't have high protection rates'

Not just Sinovac, but all of them, presumably.

China wants to ban foreigners who haven't received one of their jabs. Good. Let the Chinese economy implode due to lack of foreign investment.

Interesting. Is he declaring all to avoid saying sinovac has a problem?

Banning the foreigners? Just trying to control plague potential or an attempt to suggest the foreigners did it?

[The Free Joy State]

I understand the point you were trying to make but for the sake of philosophical honesty, 100% of people are willing to sacrifice one or several lives for the sake of convenience or pleasure. We accept deaths from alcoholism as an acceptable casualty of the rest of us getting to enjoy having a beer. We accept a few children drowning so the rest of us get to enjoy public swimming pools. We accept people dying from peanut allergies so the rest of us get to have peanuts.

And that's okay! A world in which everyone was constantly doing everything possible to save as many lives as possible would be a world of abject fucking misery. Prolonging life isn't always the highest priority - if it was, the governments of the world would have commissioned the mass manufacture of a nutritionally optimal version of soylent with the ideal amount of carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins and we would consume that most or all of the time instead of the foods we enjoy. And no one wanted to put maximum effort into preventing covid transmissions either. We could have gone further than the strictest lockdowns, we could have made everyone who isn't necessary to maintain our survival needs stay inside 100% of the time. We could have had marital law and the military leaving food rations outside of peoples' doors instead of letting people continue to grocery shop, and a lot more people would be alive today. But we didn't do that, and the fact that we didn't do that indicates that most of the human race would rather more people die than live like that.

Conversely, even while Lumen's views are quite far to the other end of the spectrum, even his positions are far from absolute. Just as a world where maximum effort was put into saving lives would suck, so would a world where we don't give a shit about saving lives at all suck.

In order to live happy lives, we have to find the golden mean of balancing safety vs. convenience and/or pleasure. We all agree with that if you really think about it, we just disagree about where the golden mean lies.

Unlike Lumen, I think it's reasonable to put concerts and shows on hold for awhile, to keep bars for awhile. I don't Lumen's position on masks but I certainly am willing to wear a mask in any indoor public space and any crowded outdoor public space and I do. But I think a lot of jurisdictions have gone way too far with their measures. Telling people they can't have a house party, fine. Expecting everyone who doesn't already live with their romantic partner to go months without touching them is insane. Telling people they can't go for walks is insane.

You explained it far better than I can. That was the point I was trying to make.

That is not remotely the position I have seen you repeatedly argue in this thread.

Arguing that all restrictions surrounding a pandemic should be ended -- right now -- because you want to go to the theatre is not the same as saying that, philosophically, humanity has decided that a certain number of deaths (from generally low-risk activities; most people are not allergic to peanuts) is acceptable.

Also, society generally does expect us to mitigate for those risks. Lifeguards at swimming pools. Or, for those who are allergic to peanuts, for example, there are Epipens. In most countries, labels have to highlight allergens. It's not acceptable to say "There may be an allergen. There may not. You may be about to embark on a dangerous activity that will result in your death. You might not. Have fun finding out."

What you have been suggesting in this thread is the equivalent of removing all the allergen information and removing the Epipens and then letting people with deadly allergies "find out for themselves" if they will live or die.

What most everyone else is proposing is building a safety net to preserve as many lives as possible. That safety net is exactly what vaccination and a slow and steady opening -- distanced performances with financial support to keep the sectors going, continued testing, masking -- of society is.

So, to Page, no. I would not sacrifice a life unnecessarily. And opening up too soon would be exactly that.

Same. I can’t wait until I can go places without having to wear a mask. Anyone else dealing with maskne?

No, I don’t mind wearing masks at all. Until I got my hands on some KN95, I was even double masking.

I don't mind either. Now it's getting warmer, it doesn't even steam up my glasses anymore.

[CoraSpia]

You explained it far better than I can. That was the point I was trying to make.

That is not remotely the position I have seen you repeatedly argue in this thread.

Arguing that all restrictions surrounding a pandemic should be ended -- right now -- because you want to go to the theatre is not the same as saying that, philosophically, humanity has decided that a certain number of deaths (from generally low-risk activities; most people are not allergic to peanuts) is acceptable.

Also, society generally does expect us to mitigate for those risks. Lifeguards at swimming pools. Or, for those who are allergic to peanuts, for example, there are Epipens. In most countries, labels have to highlight allergens. It's not acceptable to say "There may be an allergen. There may not. You may be about to embark on a dangerous activity that will result in your death. You might not. Have fun finding out."

What you have been suggesting in this thread is the equivalent of removing all the allergen information and removing the Epipens and then letting people with deadly allergies "find out for themselves" if they will live or die.

What most everyone else is proposing is building a safety net to preserve as many lives as possible. That safety net is exactly what vaccination and a slow and steady opening -- distanced performances with financial support to keep the sectors going, continued testing, masking -- of society is.

So, to Page, no. I would not sacrifice a life unnecessarily. And opening up too soon would be exactly that.

No, I don’t mind wearing masks at all. Until I got my hands on some KN95, I was even double masking.

I don't mind either. Now it's getting warmer, it doesn't even steam up my glasses anymore.

When does it become necessary to sacrifice lives though? When are some lives so vulnerable that the cost of keeping them alive outweighs the value of the life?

[The Free Joy State]

That is not remotely the position I have seen you repeatedly argue in this thread.

Arguing that all restrictions surrounding a pandemic should be ended -- right now -- because you want to go to the theatre is not the same as saying that, philosophically, humanity has decided that a certain number of deaths (from generally low-risk activities; most people are not allergic to peanuts) is acceptable.

Also, society generally does expect us to mitigate for those risks. Lifeguards at swimming pools. Or, for those who are allergic to peanuts, for example, there are Epipens. In most countries, labels have to highlight allergens. It's not acceptable to say "There may be an allergen. There may not. You may be about to embark on a dangerous activity that will result in your death. You might not. Have fun finding out."

What you have been suggesting in this thread is the equivalent of removing all the allergen information and removing the Epipens and then letting people with deadly allergies "find out for themselves" if they will live or die.

What most everyone else is proposing is building a safety net to preserve as many lives as possible. That safety net is exactly what vaccination and a slow and steady opening -- distanced performances with financial support to keep the sectors going, continued testing, masking -- of society is.

So, to Page, no. I would not sacrifice a life unnecessarily. And opening up too soon would be exactly that.


I don't mind either. Now it's getting warmer, it doesn't even steam up my glasses anymore.

When does it become necessary to sacrifice lives though? When are some lives so vulnerable that the cost of keeping them alive outweighs the value of the life?

It is not a profit-loss equation.

It is necessary to take all reasonable steps to preserve the maximum quality of the maximum number of lives. By "quality", I do not mean "everyone gets to do whatever they want"; I mean "lives of health, happiness and comfort, and that the opportunities for such are not stolen by reckless indifference".

Taking steps to warn allergy sufferers about the presence an allergen that could kill them is reasonable. Having lifeguards to prevent drowning is reasonable. Wearing masks to prevent a deadly virus spreading is reasonable. Vaccination is reasonable. Social distancing until such time as the virus is no longer a major threat is reasonable.

Can reasonable steps protect every person? No. And that's tragic.

That's why we still have flu deaths each year (despite vaccination). Although, England didn't report any cases this year -- with all the social distancing. Something to think about.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Chinese official says local vaccines 'don't have high protection rates'

Not just Sinovac, but all of them, presumably.

China wants to ban foreigners who haven't received one of their jabs. Good. Let the Chinese economy implode due to lack of foreign investment.

Interesting. Is he declaring all to avoid saying sinovac has a problem?

Banning the foreigners? Just trying to control plague potential or an attempt to suggest the foreigners did it?

Slip of the tongue. It's all just a "misunderstanding".

They've been pushing the lie that mRNA vaccines are inferior and Chinese vaccines are the real deal. The ban on foreigners who haven't received one of their shots is a desperate, face-saving exercise that can only harm their own people at the end of the day. Chinese people are going to be in for a huge shock when they realize their own government's vaccines don't work as well as claimed.

And yes, us dirty foreigners are clearly to blame for spreading the virus to their country where it originated and it's our vaccines that are ineffective despite all evidence to the contrary. We're the real scammers attempting to defraud China, not the other way around. /s