Coronavirus Thread VI: Are We Nearly There Yet? (READ OP)

[Picairn]

"Its less than 1% lethal, guise, why are we all freaking out? I wanna go to brunch!"

Didn't I post a rhetorical question debunking this bullshit? Sad to see the mentality is still prevalent.

Edit: I'm not talking about you, Grenartia, just frustrated with the BS some people can put out.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

‘Tough decision’ in September on mandatory vaccination - KJ

Drastic measures including mandatory Covid-19 vaccinations are on the cards once Malaysia’s vaccination campaign reaches a “critical point” in September, said the campaign’s coordinating minister Khairy Jamaluddin.

He said Malaysia will begin receiving an influx of vaccine deliveries in June, particularly from Pfizer and Sinovac, and supply will outpace demand in June or July.

By September, it is expected that vaccine administration rates will begin to slow not because of lack of vaccine doses or staff to administer it, but the lack of people willing to receive the vaccines.

“So I told the cabinet that I'm going to come back in September and advise cabinet whether or not we go for mandatory vaccinations in September. That is going to be a big call.

“We are not there yet, but as I said, September is really when we would have enough vaccines to vaccinate eight million people already registered and have more. And if we don't have more people registered by then, then we'd have to make a tough call,” he told an interview aired on BFM Radio today.

He added that September will also be the time when the Covid-19 Immunisation Task Force would be able to make a determination whether Malaysia is on track to vaccine 70 percent of its population by the end of this year, thus achieving herd immunity against the disease.

As of yesterday, only 8.3 million people have signed up for Covid-19 vaccination, which amounts to 34.3 percent of those in the age group that is eligible for vaccination.

As for running Phase 2 and 3 of the vaccination program concurrently, Khairy said there are not enough doses available to do this in April.

However, this will change in the coming months as more vaccine deliveries arrive, and then the two phases can be run simultaneously.

“But I want to manage public expectations here. I've looked at the delivery schedule, I've looked at the bottlenecks we're facing for whatever reason. It's not because we don't have the staff or the people to vaccinate. We have great Health Ministry staff who can do this.

“It is because we don't have enough vaccines right now. That will continue from April until about May,” he said.

Phase 2 of the vaccination program is aimed at senior citizens, people with chronic illnesses, people with disabilities, as well as remaining frontliners who haven’t been vaccinated in Phase 1 of the program. About 9.4 million people are targeted in this phase.

Phase 3 will vaccinate Malaysia’s remaining adult population with priority given to those in Covid-19 “red zones”.

As of April 4, however, the Special Committee for Ensuring Access to Covid-19 Vaccine Supply said only about 3.1 million people eligible for Phase 2 have signed up for vaccination.

They comprise 1,229,855 senior citizens, 1,741,935 people with chronic diseases, and 115,249 people with disabilities.

Meanwhile, when asked about the public outcry to choose vaccines, Khairy said the only places he knew where such an option is available are Serbia and Hong Kong.

“Other countries, you go, you take whatever is offered to you,” he said.

He said that for now, Malaysians would have to trust that the vaccines chosen by the country’s regulators are safe and effective, and take whatever vaccine is offered to them once they have received their appointment.

“Please rest assured if there is a vaccine that is not safe - that we get new data to show that its risks outweigh its benefits - we will pull that vaccine.

“If there is data to show that the vaccine has become totally ineffective against the new variants, we will pull that vaccine.

“So, we will continue to monitor the efficacy and safety of the vaccines that we offer to make sure these two things are not compromised,” he added.

Mandatory vaccinations. MANDATORY. FUCKING. VACCINATIONS. You corrupt, useless fucks continue to INSIST on not letting us pick and choose our preferred vaccine and you continue to IGNORE OUR PLEAS to LET THE PEOPLE CHOOSE and you continue to treat us like we're FUCKING FIVE YEARS OLD. I won't even know which vaccine I'll be receiving until the very moment I receive the vaccine. This is FUCKED UP. And now you want to force a Chinese vaccine up our arms? OVER MY DEAD. FUCKING. BODY.

You think that just because we're much more docile and submissive than the average American or the average Thai and you think that just because of some virus, you can continue to bully us and push us around like you fuckers have been doing for more than a year since your boss seized power in a coup and formed our current, unelected dictatorship. You insist on dissolving Parliament for seven months, declaring a state of emergency, and ruling by decree so you can intimidate journalists, opposition politicians, and civil society activists into silence with complete impunity. You continue to refuse to allow Parliament to re-convene and scrutinize your policies in detail and this is why EVERYTHING is slowly falling apart. YOU USELESS, INCOMPETENT FUCKS SHOULD BE TOTALLY ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

Americans and Britons don't have to worry about getting the Sinovac vaccine against their will when they show up for their appointment or risk arrest for declining. The only thing I've heard are some "moral" objections from Catholics regarding the J&J shot.

Pfizer and AstraZeneca are already partially effective at curbing serious illness, death, and infection after just ONE SHOT. Sinovac is only partially effective after TWO SHOTS. Britain is set to achieve herd immunity very soon even though less than 10% of its population has been fully vaccinated with two shots of AstraZeneca or Pfizer and deaths and daily cases are at an all time low. Over 20% of Chile's population has received a second dose of mainly the Sinovac vaccine and 38% has received a first dose and yet daily cases and deaths continue to rise because Sinovac is totally useless after one dose.

No, I do NOT trust the Malaysian regulator to decide what's best for us because it's a fucking, Third World, shithole "regulator". If the NPRA knew what was best for us, it would never have approved Sinovac or CanSinoBio. Taiwan has already ruled out Chinese vaccines. Even Singapore doesn't use Sinovac. Don't give us this BULLSHIT about how the WHO has approved Sinovac and all the other vaccines besides Pfizer-BioNTech. It hasn't. You people are literally FULL OF SHIT.

YOU ARE SETTING US UP TO FAIL KHAIRY JAMALUDDIN AND YOU REFUSE TO FUCKING ADMIT YOUR MISTAKES. The vaccination rollout has been proceeding at a snail's pace because incompetent fucks like you failed to FUCKING PREPARE months in advance like Singapore and the UK did. We will continue to be outpaced and outsmarted by majority-Chinese, majority-non-Muslim Singapore at every turn. That country has now vaccinated 20% of its population and has brought the pandemic fully under control for the past FIVE MONTHS.

We have vaccinated just 2% and we started two months later. Daily cases are beginning to rise once again and cases in my home state are now at an all-time high and getting steadily worse. Soon, we'll have more daily cases than the UK thanks to you. Israel has already brought this virus under control. The United States is set to follow in Britain and Israel's footsteps by summer and we will continue to lag behind and remain at the mercy of China's "vaccine diplomacy". I am FED UP of this BULLSHIT and I am SCARED and PISSED OFF as FUCK.

[The Alma Mater]

"Its less than 1% lethal, guise, why are we all freaking out? I wanna go to brunch!"

Didn't I post a rhetorical question debunking this bullshit? Sad to see the mentality is still prevalent.

I personally put some of the blame at government officials. When they say "it is bad, we should all stay home and avoid contact with others as much as possible and wear mask" and then appear in public without mask, go to their office every day and have parties - the message gets muddled.

[Page]

Didn't I post a rhetorical question debunking this bullshit? Sad to see the mentality is still prevalent.

I personally put some of the blame at government officials. When they say "it is bad, we should all stay home and avoid contact with others as much as possible and wear mask" and then appear in public without mask, go to their office every day and have parties - the message gets muddled.

It's not only the hypocrisy but the fact that governments have proven time and time again that they have no clue what they are doing. Like when Britain opened schools for one day and then closed them again. Like how New York had people knocking on doors on Thanksgiving to check the size of gatherings - the people are already gathered in a room and breathing on each other, what did they expect to accomplish but to get their door knockers infected as well? And what Cuomo did with the nursing homes. And how the EU is directly responsible for inducing a panic with the AZ vaccine which made certain that most people would refuse to get it and that millions of doses would be wasted. Like Merkel wanting to close down all shops the Thursday before Easter. For those of you who don't live in Germany, I'll tell you that more Germans rush grocery stores in preparation for a 3 day weekend than Floridians do when a hurricane is coming. With Good Friday a holiday, Merkel's idea meant there would be two rounds of everyone going shopping at once, on Wednesday and then again on Saturday. All of Germany going to the grocery store at once and it doesn't even matter that stores limit capacity because huge crowds of people will be breathing on each other while waiting in line. And every government across the world that closed beaches and parks has blood on its hands because that caused people to meet in each other's houses instead where poor indoor air circulation promotes infection. And to top it all off, governments have cops harassing people who are outside on suburban streets and the countryside where you can always, easily step several meters back from any oncoming person. But go have cops terrorize people out for walks and guarantee that those cops will eventually get infected and spread it all around.

The government wanting to be respected and taken seriously is like a crackhead mom wondering why her kids don't respect her while she is trying to figure out how to get the fridge in her car so she can sell it at a pawnshop.

You have people like Governor DeSantis who don't give a shit at all, you have jackboot authoritarianism in Britain and some US states, and then in countries like Germany, they aren't apathetic or totalitarian, but they implement lots of pointless or counterproductive measures, and the good measures are implemented far, far too late.

This pandemic is proof that we're ruled by assclowns. We probably would have had fewer deaths overall if measures were decided by spinning a wheel like a game show.

[-SARS-]

We probably would have had fewer deaths overall if measures were decided by spinning a wheel like a game show.

The US pretty much tried that. Trump is so incoherent and contradicts himself so often, it's basically the same effect as spinning a wheel.

Wasn't good.

[New Visayan Islands]

Data for PH as of April 11th, 1600 PHT/0400 EDT.

Detailed update in Tagalog. Key data to consider:

• 36988 people were tested, with a 20.8% positivity rate. That's 7694 positive results for SARS-CoV-2 if you did the math and rounded off to the nearest whole person because 7693.504 is the exact amount.
• 11681 people were added to the "I have The Coof" tally.
• 55204 people moved to the "I survived The Coof" tally, and 201 people croaked.

Also:

• KR: You missed AZ? They're back in business!
• ...why?!
• KH: Break quarantine? We lock you up. Civil servant missing out on Coof Shot? They get the boot.
• Here's hoping we get more of them.

[Kannap]

https://wgme.com/news/nation-world/fauc ... re-to-stay

“When we get the country to be 70% to 85% vaccinated, and we get this blanket or umbrella of herd immunity so that the level of virus is so low in society that it's not really a threat to anybody, then we can start coming down on the stringency of the public health measures,” said Dr. Fauci.

The title is some melodramatic bullshit. When we reached herd immunity by vaccinating 70% to 85% of the population then the restrictions will be lifted.

For reference, we're presently at about 21% in the United States, per CDC data.

[Grenartia]

gotta love those well-worn principles

Kindly don't throw me in with Lumen.

I consider myself liberal. I love the theatre. I miss it. I look forward to its safe return -- emphasis on safe. I would not sacrifice a single life to see a thousand shows.

Lumen is exactly the kind of person that anti-conservatives who despise liberals talk about when they decry liberalism. He gives you/us all (IDK if I can even be properly considered a liberal anymore, tbh) a bad name.

[Ethel mermania]

...why was this a thing
Businesses in Monterey County, California, sued the county and the California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control for continuing to collect licensing and permit fees despite mandated closures due to the Covid pandemic

Because they couldn't use their permits that they were paying for when the state forced them closed. The state should tack on an extra period of time to those permits to cover those closings.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Who knew what would make liberals turn full Trump on the coronavirus was literally just Broadway.

Alot of liberals are just people who are as selfish or immoral as Trump but don't want to admit it. It's why the "listen to the science" leaders didn't listen to the science (like Andrew Cuomo whose actions killed alot of old people) because they don't care about the science. They cared about spiting Donald Trump, an all too convenient scapegoat to blame society's issues on, as if he's not the result of our problems and not the cause. San Lumen is more concerned about Broadway being closed or not being able to go shopping than he is about the mountains of corpses this pandemic has churned out, and it's unfortunate. I too miss how things once were. But I'm willing to make sacrifices if it means we save lives. Human life is more important than the economy.

[Page]

gotta love those well-worn principles

Kindly don't throw me in with Lumen.

I consider myself liberal. I love the theatre. I miss it. I look forward to its safe return -- emphasis on safe. I would not sacrifice a single life to see a thousand shows.

So life should just be looking at a screen and going to the grocery store? What a miserable boring world

You don't get to decide the value of people's lives, nor that they should be sacrificed so your life can be as interesting as you want it.

Other people have lives that mean something too. People matter to those around them. And the fact you haven't seen a show recently doesn't mean one goddamn thing to those people, but the fact that their loved ones are alive -- if they are lucky enough for them to have survived -- does.

Oh absolutely. Now that I have lived with the mask. It will be a permanent thing. If I am not feeling well, I will wear it.

People will ask and be told just a precaution as I am not feeling 100%.

I think I can make a wild assed assumption people will appreciate it.

I can definitely see myself wearing a mask when I have to go out, if I'm not feeling well (even when the mandatory masking law ends).

I agree it would be a good thing for us to adopt. Because of changed behaviour, no flu was detected in England between 28th December 2020 and 14th February 2021; rates were also well down in the US (where flu alone causes up to 810,000 hospitalisations and 61,000 deaths in an average year, despite vaccination being available).

I can see people appreciating the effort to keep others safe.

I understand the point you were trying to make but for the sake of philosophical honesty, 100% of people are willing to sacrifice one or several lives for the sake of convenience or pleasure. We accept deaths from alcoholism as an acceptable casualty of the rest of us getting to enjoy having a beer. We accept a few children drowning so the rest of us get to enjoy public swimming pools. We accept people dying from peanut allergies so the rest of us get to have peanuts.

And that's okay! A world in which everyone was constantly doing everything possible to save as many lives as possible would be a world of abject fucking misery. Prolonging life isn't always the highest priority - if it was, the governments of the world would have commissioned the mass manufacture of a nutritionally optimal version of soylent with the ideal amount of carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins and we would consume that most or all of the time instead of the foods we enjoy. And no one wanted to put maximum effort into preventing covid transmissions either. We could have gone further than the strictest lockdowns, we could have made everyone who isn't necessary to maintain our survival needs stay inside 100% of the time. We could have had marital law and the military leaving food rations outside of peoples' doors instead of letting people continue to grocery shop, and a lot more people would be alive today. But we didn't do that, and the fact that we didn't do that indicates that most of the human race would rather more people die than live like that.

Conversely, even while Lumen's views are quite far to the other end of the spectrum, even his positions are far from absolute. Just as a world where maximum effort was put into saving lives would suck, so would a world where we don't give a shit about saving lives at all suck.

In order to live happy lives, we have to find the golden mean of balancing safety vs. convenience and/or pleasure. We all agree with that if you really think about it, we just disagree about where the golden mean lies.

Unlike Lumen, I think it's reasonable to put concerts and shows on hold for awhile, to keep bars for awhile. I don't Lumen's position on masks but I certainly am willing to wear a mask in any indoor public space and any crowded outdoor public space and I do. But I think a lot of jurisdictions have gone way too far with their measures. Telling people they can't have a house party, fine. Expecting everyone who doesn't already live with their romantic partner to go months without touching them is insane. Telling people they can't go for walks is insane.

[Fartsniffage]

hmmm. Ok. I wonder what I read or heard?

I remember it being something where it was claimed air circulation was reduced which increased infection rates as the air in cabin was recycled and passed around the plane. Obviously happens at higher altitudes....

Anyway. Like I said foggy memory......

Not sure. It’s not that though.

You really are talking a core function of the aircraft here.

It kinda is that. Modern aircraft don't completely replace the air with every recirculation since the ban on smoking. About 50% of the air used is already in the cabin and passed through hospital grade filters before going back into the cabin. Makes it easier to maintain temperature and humidity and reduces the load on the engines.

When Covid came some people remembered this factoid and panicked about it meaning that airliners were now lethal tubes of death. Not true of course.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... cle/195131

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Kindly don't throw me in with Lumen.

I consider myself liberal. I love the theatre. I miss it. I look forward to its safe return -- emphasis on safe. I would not sacrifice a single life to see a thousand shows.


You don't get to decide the value of people's lives, nor that they should be sacrificed so your life can be as interesting as you want it.

Other people have lives that mean something too. People matter to those around them. And the fact you haven't seen a show recently doesn't mean one goddamn thing to those people, but the fact that their loved ones are alive -- if they are lucky enough for them to have survived -- does.


I can definitely see myself wearing a mask when I have to go out, if I'm not feeling well (even when the mandatory masking law ends).

I agree it would be a good thing for us to adopt. Because of changed behaviour, no flu was detected in England between 28th December 2020 and 14th February 2021; rates were also well down in the US (where flu alone causes up to 810,000 hospitalisations and 61,000 deaths in an average year, despite vaccination being available).

I can see people appreciating the effort to keep others safe.

I understand the point you were trying to make but for the sake of philosophical honesty, 100% of people are willing to sacrifice one or several lives for the sake of convenience or pleasure. We accept deaths from alcoholism as an acceptable casualty of the rest of us getting to enjoy having a beer. We accept a few children drowning so the rest of us get to enjoy public swimming pools. We accept people dying from peanut allergies so the rest of us get to have peanuts.

And that's okay! A world in which everyone was constantly doing everything possible to save as many lives as possible would be a world of abject fucking misery. Prolonging life isn't always the highest priority - if it was, the governments of the world would have commissioned the mass manufacture of a nutritionally optimal version of soylent with the ideal amount of carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins and we would consume that most or all of the time instead of the foods we enjoy. And no one wanted to put maximum effort into preventing covid transmissions either. We could have gone further than the strictest lockdowns, we could have made everyone who isn't necessary to maintain our survival needs stay inside 100% of the time. We could have had marital law and the military leaving food rations outside of peoples' doors instead of letting people continue to grocery shop, and a lot more people would be alive today. But we didn't do that, and the fact that we didn't do that indicates that most of the human race would rather more people die than live like that.

Conversely, even while Lumen's views are quite far to the other end of the spectrum, even his positions are far from absolute. Just as a world where maximum effort was put into saving lives would suck, so would a world where we don't give a shit about saving lives at all suck.

In order to live happy lives, we have to find the golden mean of balancing safety vs. convenience and/or pleasure. We all agree with that if you really think about it, we just disagree about where the golden mean lies.

Unlike Lumen, I think it's reasonable to put concerts and shows on hold for awhile, to keep bars for awhile. I don't Lumen's position on masks but I certainly am willing to wear a mask in any indoor public space and any crowded outdoor public space and I do. But I think a lot of jurisdictions have gone way too far with their measures. Telling people they can't have a house party, fine. Expecting everyone who doesn't already live with their romantic partner to go months without touching them is insane. Telling people they can't go for walks is insane.

I'm willing to forgo concerts, but I was against the fullscale lockdown we had in my state in April 2020. And even though it was "against covid protocol," I still met up with friends of mine during the lockdown when gatherings were banned, because I'm not gonna catch covid in a park with one other person and I'm sure as hell not gonna say goodbye to human interaction for two months.

We can have a semblance of normalcy while also giving up some things to stave off covid. Unfortunately some people want everything closed forever and others want to just throw the floodgates open and kill millions.

[San Lumen]

Kindly don't throw me in with Lumen.

I consider myself liberal. I love the theatre. I miss it. I look forward to its safe return -- emphasis on safe. I would not sacrifice a single life to see a thousand shows.


You don't get to decide the value of people's lives, nor that they should be sacrificed so your life can be as interesting as you want it.

Other people have lives that mean something too. People matter to those around them. And the fact you haven't seen a show recently doesn't mean one goddamn thing to those people, but the fact that their loved ones are alive -- if they are lucky enough for them to have survived -- does.


I can definitely see myself wearing a mask when I have to go out, if I'm not feeling well (even when the mandatory masking law ends).

I agree it would be a good thing for us to adopt. Because of changed behaviour, no flu was detected in England between 28th December 2020 and 14th February 2021; rates were also well down in the US (where flu alone causes up to 810,000 hospitalisations and 61,000 deaths in an average year, despite vaccination being available).

I can see people appreciating the effort to keep others safe.

I understand the point you were trying to make but for the sake of philosophical honesty, 100% of people are willing to sacrifice one or several lives for the sake of convenience or pleasure. We accept deaths from alcoholism as an acceptable casualty of the rest of us getting to enjoy having a beer. We accept a few children drowning so the rest of us get to enjoy public swimming pools. We accept people dying from peanut allergies so the rest of us get to have peanuts.

And that's okay! A world in which everyone was constantly doing everything possible to save as many lives as possible would be a world of abject fucking misery. Prolonging life isn't always the highest priority - if it was, the governments of the world would have commissioned the mass manufacture of a nutritionally optimal version of soylent with the ideal amount of carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins and we would consume that most or all of the time instead of the foods we enjoy. And no one wanted to put maximum effort into preventing covid transmissions either. We could have gone further than the strictest lockdowns, we could have made everyone who isn't necessary to maintain our survival needs stay inside 100% of the time. We could have had marital law and the military leaving food rations outside of peoples' doors instead of letting people continue to grocery shop, and a lot more people would be alive today. But we didn't do that, and the fact that we didn't do that indicates that most of the human race would rather more people die than live like that.

Conversely, even while Lumen's views are quite far to the other end of the spectrum, even his positions are far from absolute. Just as a world where maximum effort was put into saving lives would suck, so would a world where we don't give a shit about saving lives at all suck.

In order to live happy lives, we have to find the golden mean of balancing safety vs. convenience and/or pleasure. We all agree with that if you really think about it, we just disagree about where the golden mean lies.

Unlike Lumen, I think it's reasonable to put concerts and shows on hold for awhile, to keep bars for awhile. I don't Lumen's position on masks but I certainly am willing to wear a mask in any indoor public space and any crowded outdoor public space and I do. But I think a lot of jurisdictions have gone way too far with their measures. Telling people they can't have a house party, fine. Expecting everyone who doesn't already live with their romantic partner to go months without touching them is insane. Telling people they can't go for walks is insane.

You explained it far better than I can. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Great Algerstonia]

You blame everything on that man, do you blame trump for you stubbing your toe too?

And I am sure you believe the election was stolen. Anyway let’s stay with covid. Trump has a large hand with it getting out of control in the US.

Joking joking election was fair, I was just taking you out of context.

And yes trump did have a role in making coronavirus out of control.

[Grenartia]

Who knew what would make liberals turn full Trump on the coronavirus was literally just Broadway.

Alot of liberals are just people who are as selfish or immoral as Trump but don't want to admit it. It's why the "listen to the science" leaders didn't listen to the science (like Andrew Cuomo whose actions killed alot of old people) because they don't care about the science. They cared about spiting Donald Trump, an all too convenient scapegoat to blame society's issues on, as if he's not the result of our problems and not the cause. San Lumen is more concerned about Broadway being closed or not being able to go shopping than he is about the mountains of corpses this pandemic has churned out, and it's unfortunate. I too miss how things once were. But I'm willing to make sacrifices if it means we save lives. Human life is more important than the economy.

Honestly, I personally don't miss how things once were at all. Yes, the current situation is shitty for a lot of people, and is still less than ideal for me. But I can think of no better sign that things were fundamentally fucked up than the fact that myself, and many others, were more financially secure on enhanced unemployment than when we had actual fucking jobs. Society needs to be fundamentally reorganized, and we need a generous UBI and welfare system, and especially universal healthcare. And the pandemic and its consequences (as shitty as they have been) have proven that beyond all shadow of a doubt. Fuck the way things used to be. They were bad and should be left behind.

And yes, I'm aware that there is a problem that many people were still struggling even when they were getting enhanced unemployment, and that a healthy society cannot function in the long term (at least with the present automation capabilities) with large numbers of people unemployed. However, my point is that we have evidence now that things like UBI, eviction moratoriums, etc. not only work, but are necessary. Likewise, as I pointed out earlier, things like masks and social distancing not only cut down on cases of COVID, but also cut down on cases of the flu (imagine a world where the flu kills an order of magnitude fewer people than it did 2 years ago), and will likely be invaluable to lessening (if not outright preventing) future pandemics.

[Galloism]

Not sure. It’s not that though.

You really are talking a core function of the aircraft here.

It kinda is that. Modern aircraft don't completely replace the air with every recirculation since the ban on smoking. About 50% of the air used is already in the cabin and passed through hospital grade filters before going back into the cabin. Makes it easier to maintain temperature and humidity and reduces the load on the engines.

When Covid came some people remembered this factoid and panicked about it meaning that airliners were now lethal tubes of death. Not true of course.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... cle/195131

Ah, interesting. 2002 - a time before I knew how jet engines worked.

I guess it's true if you come into something after it's already been changed you assume it's the way it always was.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Alot of liberals are just people who are as selfish or immoral as Trump but don't want to admit it. It's why the "listen to the science" leaders didn't listen to the science (like Andrew Cuomo whose actions killed alot of old people) because they don't care about the science. They cared about spiting Donald Trump, an all too convenient scapegoat to blame society's issues on, as if he's not the result of our problems and not the cause. San Lumen is more concerned about Broadway being closed or not being able to go shopping than he is about the mountains of corpses this pandemic has churned out, and it's unfortunate. I too miss how things once were. But I'm willing to make sacrifices if it means we save lives. Human life is more important than the economy.

Honestly, I personally don't miss how things once were at all. Yes, the current situation is shitty for a lot of people, and is still less than ideal for me. But I can think of no better sign that things were fundamentally fucked up than the fact that myself, and many others, were more financially secure on enhanced unemployment than when we had actual fucking jobs. Society needs to be fundamentally reorganized, and we need a generous UBI and welfare system, and especially universal healthcare. And the pandemic and its consequences (as shitty as they have been) have proven that beyond all shadow of a doubt. Fuck the way things used to be. They were bad and should be left behind.

And yes, I'm aware that there is a problem that many people were still struggling even when they were getting enhanced unemployment, and that a healthy society cannot function in the long term (at least with the present automation capabilities) with large numbers of people unemployed. However, my point is that we have evidence now that things like UBI, eviction moratoriums, etc. not only work, but are necessary. Likewise, as I pointed out earlier, things like masks and social distancing not only cut down on cases of COVID, but also cut down on cases of the flu (imagine a world where the flu kills an order of magnitude fewer people than it did 2 years ago), and will likely be invaluable to lessening (if not outright preventing) future pandemics.

Hopefully society learns.

[USS Monitor]

I signed up to get vaccinated. Took long enough to get a friggin appointment.

[Ifreann]

I repeat, and you should repeat this too as many times as it takes to be understood on some level:
We, just like you, don't care whatsoever about eachothers' opinions.

So you'd be fine with a world were life consists of a screen and going to the grocery store. Not many are going to want to live such a boring existence.

You're the only person who actually thinks that there's going to be an existence like that. It's so annoying how you do this, you propose something so utterly insane as ignoring reality and just picking an end date to the pandemic, and when you can't defend that atrocious idea you deflect. You concoct some nonsensical catastrophe that will befall us and in the space of a few posts people are talking about that instead of your first proposal.

Can you explain why we should pick a date and give up our efforts to stop the spread of SARS-CoV-2? Can you explain that without trying to change the topic? I don't think you can, because I think you know that what you want would cause huge numbers of people to die, and you know that getting your normal life back is not worth all that death and suffering.

[Kannap]

I understand the point you were trying to make but for the sake of philosophical honesty, 100% of people are willing to sacrifice one or several lives for the sake of convenience or pleasure. We accept deaths from alcoholism as an acceptable casualty of the rest of us getting to enjoy having a beer. We accept a few children drowning so the rest of us get to enjoy public swimming pools. We accept people dying from peanut allergies so the rest of us get to have peanuts.

And that's okay! A world in which everyone was constantly doing everything possible to save as many lives as possible would be a world of abject fucking misery. Prolonging life isn't always the highest priority - if it was, the governments of the world would have commissioned the mass manufacture of a nutritionally optimal version of soylent with the ideal amount of carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins and we would consume that most or all of the time instead of the foods we enjoy. And no one wanted to put maximum effort into preventing covid transmissions either. We could have gone further than the strictest lockdowns, we could have made everyone who isn't necessary to maintain our survival needs stay inside 100% of the time. We could have had marital law and the military leaving food rations outside of peoples' doors instead of letting people continue to grocery shop, and a lot more people would be alive today. But we didn't do that, and the fact that we didn't do that indicates that most of the human race would rather more people die than live like that.

Conversely, even while Lumen's views are quite far to the other end of the spectrum, even his positions are far from absolute. Just as a world where maximum effort was put into saving lives would suck, so would a world where we don't give a shit about saving lives at all suck.

In order to live happy lives, we have to find the golden mean of balancing safety vs. convenience and/or pleasure. We all agree with that if you really think about it, we just disagree about where the golden mean lies.

Unlike Lumen, I think it's reasonable to put concerts and shows on hold for awhile, to keep bars for awhile. I don't Lumen's position on masks but I certainly am willing to wear a mask in any indoor public space and any crowded outdoor public space and I do. But I think a lot of jurisdictions have gone way too far with their measures. Telling people they can't have a house party, fine. Expecting everyone who doesn't already live with their romantic partner to go months without touching them is insane. Telling people they can't go for walks is insane.

You explained it far better than I can. That was the point I was trying to make.

Except quite a bit of what Page said differs from the kind of "reopen everything immediately and pretend the virus doesn't exist so we can live like we did before" stuff that you've been pushing for a year now.

Or are you now telling me that you're okay with concerts and broadway operating at limited capacity or COVID safe measures now? If so, welcome aboard.

[Thermodolia]

Weber is best authority you could ask for in the industry. if he says shows will only reopen with no capacity restrictions that should tell you all you need to know.

Odd, there are theaters near me that are already open...they just do outdoor performances. Those zoom orchestras, they are still happening.

Ive seen several televised concerts

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Odd, there are theaters near me that are already open...they just do outdoor performances. Those zoom orchestras, they are still happening.

Ive seen several televised concerts

You know what should come into vogue? Open air Greco-Roman theatres. Not that im a hellenophile or anything. <.>

[Thermodolia]

You will get to do all of that. None of this will permanent despite what some people want.

My state is already vaccinating anybody over the age of 16, you're the only one panicking over this sick fantasy of yours that the pandemic will be permanent.

Literally half of the US is vaccinating the above 16

[Thermodolia]

It was. Especially when you consider they canceled the ability to introduce fresh air in the plane. The money guys figured if they closed that off they can increase profits due to drag and fuel consumption. They basically turned a plane into an incubation tube.

I have always felt that way. But I was hoping to avoid flying

If Amtrak wasn’t so damn slow and expensive I’d take it