Coronavirus Thread VI: Are We Nearly There Yet? (READ OP)

[San Lumen]

You think there is a possibility mask mandates will become permanent? If you think that’s possible I have a bridge to sell you.

Mandates, probably not, mask wearing becoming a norm akin to hand washing, at least among communities that don't have a worryingly high percentage of selfish assholes in them, may be a lot more common. It is the norm within many societies in Asia for people to mask up during flu season without governments mandating it as a well known and pertinent example.

As long as it’s not mandated I don’t care.

[Moscareinas]

I don't like the feeling of masks on my face. Not saying I don't wear when I need to, but I would love there to be at some point when they can be ditched, not that I'm optimistic of that ever happening. Also, I never found hand washing inconvenient.

Before the pandemic I used to ride around in my motorbike without masks to feel the gusts of wind blowing on my face. I wonder if I'll get to do it again.

I used to eat in restaurants, man. Inside restaurants, man. Where waiters waited on you and served you food on tables. Where the decor between tasteful and tacky but you'd take it because you weren't cooking your food, man. Man.

[The Alma Mater]

No sorry you’ll have to pay much more than that.

nobody gives a shit about your fake bridge, we're dealing with bigger problems

Of which most, ironically, probably are caused by selfish people "wanting more money".
From Republican lawmakers with stocks in/ a great campaign contribution dependence on companies like Regeneron to people advertising alternative ways to treat covid that they of course just happen to sell in their store to the aforementioned FLCCC with their "pleasse give us money and buy our merch but do not take the vaccine".

Because who cares how many die needlessly, as long as they can make a quick buck.

So I offer 6 dollars for said bridge.

[The 189]

We're currently seeing and living through the worst part of this pandemic (so far) since it began, with regards to hospitalizations, deaths, and cases.

That depends where you are. Up North, this is NOTHING compared to the first wave.

It kind of feels like I am living in Gettysburg during the Civil War, but now we are reading the casualty reports from later battles like Chickamauga or Cold Harbor. It is sad to read the reports, but it is not scary like it was when we had the battle in our own back yard.

[Moscareinas]

We finally have data on whether or not all those incentive programs did anything

the answer
nope
not a thing

Twenty-four states introduced vaccination incentive programs during the study period. The median (interquartile range) percent of the population that was fully vaccinated when incentives began was 43.8% (39.3%-47.2%). Among the 24 states, daily vaccination rates declined in the 14 days post-incentives (351/100,000 individuals) compared to 14 days pre-incentives (486/100,000 individuals). During comparable 14-day periods, vaccination rates also declined in 26 states without statewide incentive programs (351/100,000 individuals pre-incentive, 272/100,000 individuals post-incentive). Difference-in-differences analysis showed that incentive programs were associated with a non-significant relative decline in daily vaccination rates of 8.9 per 100,000 individuals (95% CI [-64.3,46.5]; p=0.75). Furthermore, there was no significant difference in vaccination trends between states with and without incentives in any of the 14 days before or after incentives were introduced

at least we know how positive reinforcement fares in an era where mass distrust of established science is... well, not the norm, but a norm

but what if that distrust wasn't engendered and emboldened by people like trump, who last i heard is still alive and free and generally not suffering for the more than half a million he's murdered?

[Post War America]

Mandates, probably not, mask wearing becoming a norm akin to hand washing, at least among communities that don't have a worryingly high percentage of selfish assholes in them, may be a lot more common. It is the norm within many societies in Asia for people to mask up during flu season without governments mandating it as a well known and pertinent example.

As long as it’s not mandated I don’t care.

You see the problem with that is that enough people need to do it voluntarily for it to be a norm that doesn't require legal enforcement. Something which we're nowhere near in the West.

[Kowani]

Pfizer board member Scott Gottlieb says data for the the vaccine's effects on 2-5 year-olds will be available in November, while the data for ages 5-11 should be filed with the FDA sometime in September, with application for use filed as early as October

[95X]

It should be a law that you have to get vaccinated unless you are medically unable to. Then it becomes a moot point.

Since you don't agree that it should be a felony, what level of crime do you think it should be?

Also note that I think that even though the charge should be a federal felony, it wouldn't include imprisonment; only a judge's sentence to get vaccinated. Except now that individual is a felon.

We finally have data on whether or not all those incentive programs did anything

the answer
nope
not a thing

Even more of a reason for criminal penalties for vaccine refusal, I would hope that people would say to themselves, "well I like my freedoms and I sure don't want to be a convicted felon so I guess I'll get the vaccine".

[Pasong Tirad]

If you just vaccinate everyone, this issue would not exist.

It will, it will. Second dose, third dose, 8th booster, 26th dose. Endless holiday.

People are already supposed to get vaccinated for a variety of stuff every year or so. Like the flu. This shouldn't be any different.

[USS Monitor]

It should be a law that you have to get vaccinated unless you are medically unable to. Then it becomes a moot point.

Since you don't agree that it should be a felony, what level of crime do you think it should be?

None.

Even if it was a crime, many antivaxxers would not be competent to stand trial because they are too scientifically illiterate to understand the consequences of their actions. They don't need a criminal record. They just need to get vaccinated.

[Turk Cumhuriyeti]

In any case I will not pose a riskbfornyou as I live in Ankara and younprobablynlive somewhers else.

It may surprise you to learn that some people can actually care about other humans who are not themselves.
In fact,we consider people who can NOT do that to be mentally ill.

Yes, thats true, so I take care of those whom Im obliged to take care for.

[Turk Cumhuriyeti]

I dont live in America and Im not interested in the position of the CDC. Actually, Im not interested also in the position of the Turkish "academicans",either. Im interested in the position of the doctors who really encounter patients with any diseases and can tell you their experience from first hand.

Well, I'd encourage you to talk to your doctor in that case. He can provide you guidance on these topics.

That's all I can tell you, really. I'm not an expert by any means.

And I did get advice from my doctor.

[Turk Cumhuriyeti]

In any case I will not pose a risk fo you as I live in Ankara and you probably live somewhers else.

Yeah, people in different countries can't influence the pandemic in other countries until, y'know, a new variant is allowed to develop and it spreads outside its country of origin.

But when has that ever happened?

And what? So lets close everythibg forever and also shoot all the children because "they are little killers who cause the death of their vulnerable grandparents".

[Esternial]

Yeah, people in different countries can't influence the pandemic in other countries until, y'know, a new variant is allowed to develop and it spreads outside its country of origin.

But when has that ever happened?

And what? So lets close everythibg forever and also shoot all the children because "they are little killers who cause the death of their vulnerable grandparents".

I can't see your point underneath all the hyperbole, can you re-iterate?

[Turk Cumhuriyeti]

And what? So lets close everythibg forever and also shoot all the children because "they are little killers who cause the death of their vulnerable grandparents".

I can't see your point underneath all the hyperbole, can you re-iterate?

What dies this "re-iterate" mean?

[Juristonia]

Mandates, probably not, mask wearing becoming a norm akin to hand washing, at least among communities that don't have a worryingly high percentage of selfish assholes in them, may be a lot more common. It is the norm within many societies in Asia for people to mask up during flu season without governments mandating it as a well known and pertinent example.

As long as it’s not mandated I don’t care.

What if the experts you said should be listened to after spending 6 threads saying they shouldn't be listened to say it should be?

[Esalia]

Back to being a trumpist again?

I understand your desperation to shop, go to a restaurant, the theater and of course the museums. Why should we give up? "That's on you?" rather republican viewpoint.

For profit hospitals? It's your mindset of Economy Über alles and just let heard immunity happen is why the hospitals are overwhelmed.

What do we do then? Live with masks, capacity limits or potential lockdowns henceforth? That's not living.

It is a problem that needs to be addressed. I work for a museum and we will close our doors if there is another lockdown but I know some don't care about that.

I don't know what kind of entitlement you have to have where "wearing a mask" and "places filled with strangers are filled with slightly fewer strangers" qualifies as "not living".

Like, do you walk into a restaurant outside of peak hours, realise it isn't full to capacity, and flee to the nearest full restaurant before you die from the horror of a business not at capacity?

Probably never because people like you never wanted to do anything to make that happen. It's here, it's probably not going away, thanks for that.

Eradication is impossible at this point. We have to learn to live with it at some point. Vaccines or not and that means no masks, canceled events or vaccination proof to do anything. I predict by this time next year the pandemic will have begun to be but a memory.

Well, it would've been a memory by next year if antivaxxers didn't exist and people like you didn't advocate against every possible restriction aimed at ending covid.

I don't think anyone fully knows, but it would definitely happen faster if you, and people like you, would stop doing everything in their power to make sure it never ends.

No pandemic is forever.

Are you just gonna endlessly repeat this whenever you're confronted with the consequences of the stuff you advocate for?

"No pandemic is forever", no shit, but currently the person most trying to make the pandemic forever is the one dogmatically insisting it won't be forever, i.e you.

Or it could mean all of those things for as long as covid exists. And you'll just have to deal with it.

I very much doubt that. Few would accept that.

It's interesting that you consistently think you're speaking for the majority when a) your insistence that "few would accept that" tends to fall flat and b) you've consistently been the minority, if not the sole voice saying this stuff.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Well, it would've been a memory by next year if antivaxxers didn't exist and people like you didn't advocate against every possible restriction aimed at ending covid.

But what about Broadway and all the rich people

[Diahon]

Well, it would've been a memory by next year if antivaxxers didn't exist and people like you didn't advocate against every possible restriction aimed at ending covid.

But what about Broadway and all the rich people

rich guy here

i really don't like staring into graves unless they're the graves of those who'd murder for kicks

please pass that on

[Esalia]

Well, it would've been a memory by next year if antivaxxers didn't exist and people like you didn't advocate against every possible restriction aimed at ending covid.

But what about Broadway and all the rich people

Oh right, I forgot that I was supposed to put the economy before human lives, despite the numerous ways the economy can and has survived minimal physical contact, and the fact that a metric fuckton of dead workers is a far more damaging and long-term hit to the economy than a period of reduced economic activity.

[Neutraligon]

We're currently seeing and living through the worst part of this pandemic (so far) since it began, with regards to hospitalizations, deaths, and cases.

That depends where you are. Up North, this is NOTHING compared to the first wave.

It kind of feels like I am living in Gettysburg during the Civil War, but now we are reading the casualty reports from later battles like Chickamauga or Cold Harbor. It is sad to read the reports, but it is not scary like it was when we had the battle in our own back yard.

Not true in Oregon

[Forsher]

At some point as a world we are going to have the accept this is endemic and just give up. I wish that day would be tomorrow and tell people if you won't get vaccinated thats on you and our leaders completely ignore the WHO and CDC. if we ended for profit hospitals many wouldn't be overwhelmed

Surely the point of the Australian approach is that a covid-zero approach is possible? Schools have been open, people have been eating in restaurants and going to theaters to watch plays and all the usual stuff - and they have been doing all that because they treated it like a pandemic and made appropriate choices.

Even now that they are talking about relaxing their approach, they're talking about relaxing the approach WHEN they get to a high enough vaccination level (they're aiming for 80%) that they have effectively duplicated herd-immunity.

That's why the TOTAL deaths to coronavirus in all of Australia since the pandemic started - is lower than the total of deaths in two days, in Florida on Thursday and Friday of last week.

No, no, no, you see, the fact that NZ, Australia (and several other countries in the Asia Pacific) have had almost entirely normal public lives for the vast majority of both 2020 and 2021 is irrelevant. The important thing is that these countries have lockdowns (well, some Australian states) which they've been in twice. Never mind that the US and UK have spent far, far longer with some level of Covid restriction (but probably never actually in lockdown by the standards of NZ), it's the UK that embodies what "freedom" looks like.

Acknowledging the experiences of these countries means acknowledging the colossal failures of the majority of the world. It's fine to say "Brazil fucked up" or "Sweden were idiots" because you're better than them (mind you, the Sweden = bad narrative has completely disappeared from the BBC, incidentally, so I'd assume it's very much out of favour in the UK... probably the US, but I don't read any US news sites and get my American news from the American perspective wholly from here), but actually saying "this is what success looks like" means saying "we failed completely".

The criticism of Covid Zero began with "but the borders, how will they open the borders" and has now reached its fully evolved form "it was always impossible".

[Forsher]

It doesn't feel like it sometimes with the news of new variants and rising cases and reimposing of mask mandates and threat of new lockdowns. If vaccines aren't the endgame then our leaders should just come out and say it.

Vaccines never were the endgame. The endgame was always to see the end of this pandemic. If you don't understand that that's been the endgame this entire time, then that's your problem.

This is another aspect of the narrative shift.

Last year, it was all about herd immunity and getting rid of Covid through it. So much so, countries were allegedly trying to create herd immunity by getting everyone infected even though herd resistance was previously a concept perceived through the lens of vaccination.

Then the vaccines were rolled out and no-where managed to have high vaccination rates and not have increasing cases and suddenly "get vaccinated" became a goal unto itself and it was time to start counting only serious illnesses, hospitalisations and deaths because apparently that's how all other diseases are treated. Except, of course, that isn't how all other diseases are treated. It's not how we treated the measles outbreaks in 2019, it's not how HIV/AIDS are reported and it's not even how STIs, heart disease and cancer are reported (yes, there is a reporting of deaths, particularly with the last two, but we've been reporting deaths the whole time for Covid, too... though, people seem to forget that).

Public health has lost the semantic war in the Covid Pandemic. Sure, it never looked like it was winning, but the most powerful countries in the West are now just repeating San Lumen's talking points.

[Esternial]

I can't see your point underneath all the hyperbole, can you re-iterate?

What dies this "re-iterate" mean?

Repeat what you're aiming to get across with that statement.

[San Lumen]

It should be a law that you have to get vaccinated unless you are medically unable to. Then it becomes a moot point.

Since you don't agree that it should be a felony, what level of crime do you think it should be?

Also note that I think that even though the charge should be a federal felony, it wouldn't include imprisonment; only a judge's sentence to get vaccinated. Except now that individual is a felon.

We finally have data on whether or not all those incentive programs did anything

the answer
nope
not a thing

Even more of a reason for criminal penalties for vaccine refusal, I would hope that people would say to themselves, "well I like my freedoms and I sure don't want to be a convicted felon so I guess I'll get the vaccine".

It’s already been explained to you this would be unconstitutional.