The fallen nations thread.

[The Dodo Republic]

Well...I did not know to title this... My apologizes if its misleading. This is the thread to discuss real life nations that no longer exist or have since became something else. (A favorable example would be Prussia or the USSR). This is the thread to discuss these nations. What could have been done to "save them" and what nations would you have wish to see in the present day? (Proposed nations and ideas can also be discussed.)



Enjoy!

[New yugoslavaia]

Question is, would you want to save any of them?

[The Dodo Republic]

Question is, would you want to save any of them?

I would have liked to see Prussia in the present day. Or the German Empire as a whole survive... (Under the German empire or something similar)

[Prusmia]

Question is, would you want to save any of them?

I would have liked to see Prussia in the present day. Or the German Empire as a whole survive... (Under the German empire or something similar)

Seeing a modern Prussia would be nice, although I seem to be very simmilar.

[Fjarrej]

I'd like to see Tibet make a return. And it could be like a constitutional theocracy with the Dalai Lama as the head of State and a democratically elected regime as the head of government.

[Major-Tom]

I read somewhere that Vermont was once a Republic, and I just think that's kind of sick, we should bring it back. Imagine a nation where maple syrup and beanies make up 80% of the GDP.

[The Dodo Republic]

I read somewhere that Vermont was once a Republic, and I just think that's kind of sick, we should bring it back. Imagine a nation where maple syrup and beanies make up 80% of the GDP.

Y e s

[Cruciland]

Speaking of the OP's mention of the USSR, I would have loved it if the White Army won and we still had the Russian Empire. They'd certainly be a stronger power today than the Russian Federation currently is, and would make a nice counterbalance to China if/when the US hegemony implodes.

[The Dodo Republic]

Speaking of the OP's mention of the USSR, I would have loved it if the White Army won and we still had the Russian Empire. They'd certainly be a stronger power today than the Russian Federation currently is, and would make a nice counterbalance to China if/when the US hegemony implodes.

this would be something I wish to see as well. I dont think it could survive as a monarchy however.

[Ancapimania]

I would like to see Weimar Germany survive in the modern world,it would be stronger considering Venezuela and other nations have high inflation rates right now.But I would also like to see viking iceland because they would be a giant economic powerhouse because it was libertarian.

[New yugoslavaia]

Speaking of the OP's mention of the USSR, I would have loved it if the White Army won and we still had the Russian Empire. They'd certainly be a stronger power today than the Russian Federation currently is, and would make a nice counterbalance to China if/when the US hegemony implodes.

Could be interesting...provided they dropped the pogroms.

[New yugoslavaia]

I'd like to see Tibet make a return. And it could be like a constitutional theocracy with the Dalai Lama as the head of State and a democratically elected regime as the head of government.

Nice idea, but considering China's on the way to becoming a world Superpower...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAu5OkvwGY&ab

[The Dodo Republic]

I'd like to see Tibet make a return. And it could be like a constitutional theocracy with the Dalai Lama as the head of State and a democratically elected regime as the head of government.

Tibet is yes

[Fjarrej]

I mean an election was held in Russia in 1917 where the bolsheviks lost and rejected the results, but what if they didn't and the civil war never even happened. What if Russia evolved into a democracy throughout the 20th century and never fell to communism? It'd be a western democracy like Germany. I think that idea's pretty cool if you ask me

[Syndic Australia]

Compared to my list of hypothetical nations, the list of sadly defunct nation's is remarkably short.

Pan-culturalism unions are those that I feel the most saddened by the failure of. Unions such as Gran Colombia, the United States of Central America, the United Arab Republic - heck, even that Carribbean Federation that kicked around for a while - that could never realise their goals for one reason or another.

Prussia went on to unify Germany in its own cultural union - yes the territory is no longer part of Germany but neither are the current residents German.

With the USSR, I harbour a great deal of sympathy for Kerensky, and feel that the less Leninist involvement in post-imperial Russia, the better things would've turned out, to put it very simply. In a similar vein, who knows what Marshall's plan for China could have led to or avoided...

Tibet would be a good choice, like Fjarrej mentioned. It would be interesting to see more modern theocratic states, including constitutional ones.

I'm not going to touch on anything pre-napoleonic, pre-modern states would be far too much of a deep dive. On that note though, a successful Napoleonic France, or at least a France retaining Napoleon, would have been a boon to humanity.

That's pretty much everything off the top of my head. Palestine maybe? Does Kurdistan count? Perhaps a Hashimid Arabia? I'm not well versed enough to make an informed statement on the middle east or Africa beyond that, but I do hope that prospective East African Union doesn't turn into another Gran Colombia.

[New yugoslavaia]

Compared to my list of hypothetical nations, the list of sadly defunct nation's is remarkably short.

Pan-culturalism unions are those that I feel the most saddened by the failure of. Unions such as Gran Colombia, the United States of Central America, the United Arab Republic - heck, even that Carribbean Federation that kicked around for a while - that could never realise their goals for one reason or another.

I do wish the world was a bit more united.

[The Dodo Republic]

I mean an election was held in Russia in 1917 where the bolsheviks lost and rejected the results, but what if they didn't and the civil war never even happened. What if Russia evolved into a democracy throughout the 20th century and never fell to communism? It'd be a western democracy like Germany. I think that idea's pretty cool if you ask me

That would be interesting.

[The Dodo Republic]

Compared to my list of hypothetical nations, the list of sadly defunct nation's is remarkably short.

Pan-culturalism unions are those that I feel the most saddened by the failure of. Unions such as Gran Colombia, the United States of Central America, the United Arab Republic - heck, even that Carribbean Federation that kicked around for a while - that could never realise their goals for one reason or another.

Prussia went on to unify Germany in its own cultural union - yes the territory is no longer part of Germany but neither are the current residents German.

With the USSR, I harbour a great deal of sympathy for Kerensky, and feel that the less Leninist involvement in post-imperial Russia, the better things would've turned out, to put it very simply. In a similar vein, who knows what Marshall's plan for China could have led to or avoided...

Tibet would be a good choice, like Fjarrej mentioned. It would be interesting to see more modern theocratic states, including constitutional ones.

I'm not going to touch on anything pre-napoleonic, pre-modern states would be far too much of a deep dive. On that note though, a successful Napoleonic France, or at least a France retaining Napoleon, would have been a boon to humanity.

That's pretty much everything off the top of my head. Palestine maybe? Does Kurdistan count? Perhaps a Hashimid Arabia? I'm not well versed enough to make an informed statement on the middle east or Africa beyond that, but I do hope that prospective East African Union doesn't turn into another Gran Colombia.

(Proposed nations also count)

[Syndic Australia]

Thinking a bit more, a post-WW1 democratic Japan was very much within the realm of possibility, were it not that the imperial powers were unwilling to consider the Japanese as 'racial equals' as it would require them to either admit the 'Mission to Civilize' was a complete lie, or actually attainable by their colonial subjects. The west chose to let Japan's nascent democracy fall, probably to the detriment of all, but in another world, perhaps, there was a place for Japan in the Wilsonian world order (or at the very least not open and intense hostility).

Incredibly unlikely, considering that anti-asian sentiment transcended the political spectrum, but the knock-on effect would've been tremendous.

[Sierra Grand]

Austria and Hungary seems a place that wouldn't be too bad to revive.
I mean Serbia shot their leader

[Syndic Australia]

Austria and Hungary seems a place that wouldn't be too bad to revive.
I mean Serbia shot their leader

Just the dual-monarchy or are the Slavs being caught up in this again? And what about Transylvania and Hungary's (many) other losses?

I always feel bad for Hungary, it's only ever shrunk

[Cokoland]

From all of these I'll probably chose Saxony or Bavaria, I'm feeling like all the other lost nations (atleast the most popular ones) would probably start conflicts again if they were revived in the present day, as with Saxony or Bavaria I imagine they would be chill as their neighbors, maybe they would have some conflict with Germany but other than that I imagine the world with be as usual even if they were to come back.

Also is pretty weird that from all of the lost nations that were out there OP only chosed german ones.

[The Archregimancy]

I read somewhere that Vermont was once a Republic, and I just think that's kind of sick, we should bring it back. Imagine a nation where maple syrup and beanies make up 80% of the GDP.

Worm Mountain (ask a French speaker) was indeed a de facto independent state from 1777 to 1791.

Simplifying somewhat, it arose as a result of a colonial-era dispute between New York and New Hampshire, which had both issued land grants in the region. With New York refusing to concede, the settlers holding grants from New Hampshire declared independence. Everyone's intent was that the territory would eventually become part of the United States, but New York continued to press its claim until 1790, which made admission of Vermont impossible since the US constitution requires the consent of states if a state is being formed out of an existing state's territory (as claimed by New York). Once New York's consent was finally given (contingent on negotiating the border between the two), Vermont was accepted into the Union.


On the actual thread topic, assuming we have to limit this to states that ceased to exist in the modern period, so some time after c.1500 (and the Dodo Republic might actually want to make this clearer), then I'll put in a vote for the Republic of Venice; founded as a vassal of the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire at some unknown point in the early medieval period (AD 697, according to legend), and destroyed by Napoleon in 1797. Just this once, I'll even overlook AD 1204.

Speaking of the OP's mention of the USSR, I would have loved it if the White Army won and we still had the Russian Empire. They'd certainly be a stronger power today than the Russian Federation currently is, and would make a nice counterbalance to China if/when the US hegemony implodes.

A White victory in the Civil War almost certainly would have led to an authoritarian repressive state as bad in its own (if very different) way as the Bolsheviks, and wouldn't necessarily have led to a restoration of the Romanov monarchy. Part of the problem the Whites had is that they weren't an ideological movement; the only thing that united the Whites was opposition to the Bolsheviks, and they included a broad spectrum of political views in their ranks, from Kerensky-supporting social democratic republicans through to some fairly scary proto-fascist autocrats. Their military leaders, however - the people actually in a position to impose some measure of control had they won - tended towards autocrats who were perfectly happy to carry out pogroms in service of Great Russian chauvinism, even while paying lip service to a multinational Russian state.

In a perfect world, neither side would have won the Civil War, and a new Russian state based on the 1918 Constitutent Assembly - the only body with any claim to democratic legitimacy in Russia - would have been formed peacefully; but that was impossible under the specific circumstances of 1917-1918.

[Mercatus]

The Republic of Texas would be interesting if it existed nowadays. Of course, with the fractured state of our Union Texas could probably up and leave without many issues.

[Syndic Australia]

From all of these I'll probably chose Saxony or Bavaria, I'm feeling like all the other lost nations (atleast the most popular ones) would probably start conflicts again if they were revived in the present day, as with Saxony or Bavaria I imagine they would be chill as their neighbors, maybe they would have some conflict with Germany but other than that I imagine the world with be as usual even if they were to come back.

Also is pretty weird that from all of the lost nations that were out there OP only chosed german ones.

If i had to pick, I'd also go for Bavaria, but Hannover/Brunswick (considering its historical ties to the UK) would also be interesting.