Communist-Capitalist Discussion

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Listen, I clearly aren’t explaining myself very well, so just ignore it.
I’m capitalist deep at heart, but if my circumstances were different, like if I was homeless, chances are I probably wouldn’t be.

It really seems like you are saying that you know you're wrong, but you're going to carry on being wrong because the thing you're wrong about doesn't seem to be hurting you personally, just other people. Why do you even support capitalism when you clearly understand that it is bad?

I don’t understand that it’s bad, I don’t even think it’s bad.
But listen, if I’m so bad at explaining myself just ignore this thread, because it won’t make any sense for you. I’ve done my very best to explain what I mean, and if you don’t understand it, that’s okay, I’m just not gonna keep trying to explain myself to a person that has not idea what I’m talking about.

[The New California Republic]

-snip-

Yes kind of, but market socialism is a sliding scale. It's possible to have a form of market socialism where the only role of central planning is to provide nudges towards certain societal goals in a quite hands-off manner, and then at the other end of the scale involves fairly strong central planning short of being all-encompassing, with market elements being key in perhaps a few sectors, or as a mechanism to inform central planning decisions.

[Greater Cesnica]

Listen, I clearly aren’t explaining myself very well, so just ignore it.
I’m capitalist deep at heart, but if my circumstances were different, like if I was homeless, chances are I probably wouldn’t be.

It really seems like you are saying that you know you're wrong, but you're going to carry on being wrong because the thing you're wrong about doesn't seem to be hurting you personally, just other people. Why do you even support capitalism when you clearly understand that it is bad?

Ideological laziness. Why bother questioning the system if it benefits you splendidly?

[Greater Cesnica]

-snip-

Yes kind of, but market socialism is a sliding scale. It's possible to have a form of market socialism where the only role of central planning is to provide nudges towards certain societal goals in a quite hands-off manner, and then at the other end of the scale involves fairly strong central planning short of being all-encompassing, with market elements being key in perhaps a few sectors, or as a mechanism to inform central planning decisions.

Yeah, I generally am amicable to the decentralized, lack of state intervention style of market socialism.

[Duvniask]

Almost every single thing in this thread is wrong, and it belies the total illiteracy with which NSG discusses communism versus capitalism. It doesn't help that people refer to definitions from online dictionaries or Wikipedia, as if these are accurate rather than merely reflecting a general dearth of understanding

That's a lot of words just to say "Socialism is when the government does stuff and the more stuff it does the socialister it is".

Don't forget the other variation: "socialism is when cooperatives do stuff".

[Ifreann]

It really seems like you are saying that you know you're wrong, but you're going to carry on being wrong because the thing you're wrong about doesn't seem to be hurting you personally, just other people. Why do you even support capitalism when you clearly understand that it is bad?

I don’t understand that it’s bad, I don’t even think it’s bad.
But listen, if I’m so bad at explaining myself just ignore this thread, because it won’t make any sense for you. I’ve done my very best to explain what I mean, and if you don’t understand it, that’s okay, I’m just not gonna keep trying to explain myself to a person that has not idea what I’m talking about.

Why do you even support capitalism?

[Greater Cesnica]

Almost every single thing in this thread is wrong, and it belies the total illiteracy with which NSG discusses communism versus capitalism. It doesn't help that people refer to definitions from online dictionaries or Wikipedia, as if these are accurate rather than merely reflecting a general dearth of understanding

That's a lot of words just to say "Socialism is when the government does stuff and the more stuff it does the socialister it is".

Don't forget the other variation: "socialism is when cooperatives do stuff".

How accurate was I, then

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Almost every single thing in this thread is wrong, and it belies the total illiteracy with which NSG discusses communism versus capitalism. It doesn't help that people refer to definitions from online dictionaries or Wikipedia, as if these are accurate rather than merely reflecting a general dearth of understanding

That's a lot of words just to say "Socialism is when the government does stuff and the more stuff it does the socialister it is".

Don't forget the other variation: "socialism is when cooperatives do stuff".

Life isn’t communism vs capitalism, I’m aware, but this thread was created to hear the opinions of people who define themselves as communist, socialist or anything related. Just because we don’t go into detail of every single ideology doesn’t mean that we’re wrong.

[Kenzo-Cyprii]

Unless I read over something, I’m surprised to find a thread about capitalism and communism and it not devolving into mud-slinging and the classic “you don’t even know what communism is” madness.

[The New California Republic]

Almost every single thing in this thread is wrong, and it belies the total illiteracy with which NSG discusses communism versus capitalism. It doesn't help that people refer to definitions from online dictionaries or Wikipedia, as if these are accurate rather than merely reflecting a general dearth of understanding

I beseeched the thread author to flesh out the OP a bit with some things like starter questions, helpful links, a little bit of background etc, but nada...

[Greater Cesnica]

-snip-

Not necessary.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Almost every single thing in this thread is wrong, and it belies the total illiteracy with which NSG discusses communism versus capitalism. It doesn't help that people refer to definitions from online dictionaries or Wikipedia, as if these are accurate rather than merely reflecting a general dearth of understanding

I beseeched the thread author to flesh out the OP a bit with some things like starter questions, helpful links, a little bit of background etc, but nada...

No you didn’t....

[The New California Republic]

I beseeched the thread author to flesh out the OP a bit with some things like starter questions, helpful links, a little bit of background etc, but nada...

No you didn’t....

Yes, I very much did:

You don’t need to point my stupidity out, I’m well aware of it.

Tbh the OP needs fleshing out too. Things like some engaging starter questions, a little bit of background, useful links to source materials, and an interesting poll all lend themselves to doing that.

[Greater Cesnica]

No you didn’t....

Yes, I very much did:

Tbh the OP needs fleshing out too. Things like some engaging starter questions, a little bit of background, useful links to source materials, and an interesting poll all lend themselves to doing that.

oof

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

No you didn’t....

Yes, I very much did:

Tbh the OP needs fleshing out too. Things like some engaging starter questions, a little bit of background, useful links to source materials, and an interesting poll all lend themselves to doing that.

Just because I don’t see something doesn’t mean I refuse to do it.

[Kenzo-Cyprii]

-snip-

Not necessary.

What’s life if you can’t crack wise?

[Obets]

All of these post are examples of why the horseshoe theory or the fishhook theory exists. There is no one way a government is and no one way a government can be, and there are a large amount of ways you can approach things.

Never really understood fishhook or horseshoe theory, I get what they mean, but I can’t see how they believe it.

In a way it makes total sense. If you go far enough on one side, you'll become more radical and you'll essentially become a totalitarian regime. If you go extremely to the left, and then someone else goes extremely to the right, if you go far enough you'll both just become these extremist authoritarian regimes that have little difference between each other, and are just so radical and extreme that go so far on both sides, like some national socialist extremist regime like the Nazis. In a way the horseshoe theory makes perfect sense.

[The New California Republic]

Yes, I very much did:

Just because I don’t see something doesn’t mean I refuse to do it.

Well...now that you've seen it...

[Duvniask]

Almost every single thing in this thread is wrong, and it belies the total illiteracy with which NSG discusses communism versus capitalism. It doesn't help that people refer to definitions from online dictionaries or Wikipedia, as if these are accurate rather than merely reflecting a general dearth of understanding


Don't forget the other variation: "socialism is when cooperatives do stuff".

Life isn’t communism vs capitalism, I’m aware, but this thread was created to hear the opinions of people who define themselves as communist, socialist or anything related. Just because we don’t go into detail of every single ideology doesn’t mean that we’re wrong.

Bare fordi du ingenting ved, så betyder det ikke at du skal dele din holdning online. Jeg vil faktisk fraråde det.

Der er rigeligt med tåber i verden der kalder sig selv "socialister" - herunder vores egen SF og Enhedslisten. At de kalder sig selv dette har ikke nogen relation til hvad de rent faktisk er, dvs. kapitalens venstrefløj.

[Kenzo-Cyprii]

Never really understood fishhook or horseshoe theory, I get what they mean, but I can’t see how they believe it.

In a way it makes total sense. If you go far enough on one side, you'll become more radical and you'll essentially become a totalitarian regime. If you go extremely to the left, and then someone else goes extremely to the right, if you go far enough you'll both just become these extremist authoritarian regimes that have little difference between each other, and are just so radical and extreme that go so far on both sides, like some national socialist extremist regime like the Nazis. In a way the horseshoe theory makes perfect sense.

I second this.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Just because I don’t see something doesn’t mean I refuse to do it.

Well...now that you've seen it...

Now that I’ve seen it I can say that it’s too late, to be honest, even when you made the comment in the first place it was too late. And I did ask a question, perhaps not in the OP, but it was like one of the first comments. And why would I need any links?

[Greater Cesnica]

Well...now that you've seen it...

Now that I’ve seen it I can say that it’s too late, to be honest, even when you made the comment in the first place it was too late. And I did ask a question, perhaps not in the OP, but it was like one of the first comments. And why would I need any links?

It's not late at all. You're just being lazy, or you don't know anything about the subject that you've brought up.

[My Political Fantasy]

Communist: I pretend I'm a hipster
Capitalist: I pretend I'm bill gates.

[New yugoslavaia]

Seems that whole "Middle way" comment didn't pan out so well.

I meant middle way as "Between Capitalism and Socialism". Neoliberalism doesn't strike me as very socialist.
Then again, my knowledge could just be a bit bad.

[The New California Republic]

Well...now that you've seen it...

Now that I’ve seen it I can say that it’s too late, to be honest, even when you made the comment in the first place it was too late.

The only time it is "too late" to improve an OP in a thread is if the thread gets locked. Any time during the life of a thread is a fine time to improve it.

And I did ask a question, perhaps not in the OP, but it was like one of the first comments. And why would I need any links?

It wasn't really terribly interesting. And having links is usually incredibly helpful in generating discussion, providing a font of knowledge from which participants in the thread can draw.